Human-like playing engine

[mark]

Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

Hi,

I'm considering "upgrading" from my venerable Fritz 6 to one of the
newer Fritz 8 range of programs, to benefit from the training systems.

I'm a weak player, and normally play Fritz using the 5.32 engine at
its lowest ELO rating.

I'd like to go for the version of Fritz that has the more human-like
play (Junior?). Can someone please confirm that it can play sensibly
at low ELO levels (maybe ~1300?) without just throwing material away
by really dumb blunders?

Thanks,

Mark

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

Newsgroups: rec.games.chess.computer
From: Tapio Huuhka <tapio.huu...@dlc.fi> - Find messages by this author

Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 15:16:42 +0300
Local: Sun,May 1 2005 5:16 am
Subject: Re: Human-like playing engine


Mark wrote:
> Hi,

> I'm considering "upgrading" from my venerable Fritz 6 to one of the
> newer Fritz 8 range of programs, to benefit from the training
systems.


> I'm a weak player, and normally play Fritz using the 5.32 engine at
> its lowest ELO rating.


> I'd like to go for the version of Fritz that has the more human-like
> play (Junior?). Can someone please confirm that it can play sensibly
> at low ELO levels (maybe ~1300?) without just throwing material away
> by really dumb blunders?


> Thanks,


> Mark


Shredder Classic and Shredder have a pretty good way to handicap the
engine, without just making silly mistakes, to the level you want.
http://shredderchess.com/index­.html

You might also want to check the free Prodeo.
http://members.home.nl/matador­/prodeo.htm



I don't follow. Mark asks for a weak engine but you direct him to Pro
Deo, rated at 2700 ELO?

How do you dumb down Pro Deo?

AFAIK, Delfi or DelfiT are the only engines that can be brought down to
1300 or so and then only when run under Winboard (or Chess Partner?).
The Fritz-like GUIs (I have Junior 8 and Hiarcs 8) have a slider to
adjust playing level, but they don't bring any engine down to this
level.

Dan

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

When it's about having an engine as weak as possible, you don't need to
buy anything new. I'm afraid no engine will really be good in emulating
a weak human, without blunders. Aren't such blunders typical for such
players? The best suggestion I can give is, download some free engines
and set them to very short thinking time, each. That's the most natural
way to limit computer strength. Like, 1 second average per move.
Alternatively, you could experiment with ply depth levels of 3 (or even
less). Of course, you take as much time as you like during these games.

A good download source for free engines ready to use in Fritz, is the
chessbase.com downloads/engines page. There's a quite weak engine
"Turing," programmed after an historic algorithm from the 1950's. Maybe
you'll like that one.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

Mark wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm considering "upgrading" from my venerable Fritz 6 to one of the
> newer Fritz 8 range of programs, to benefit from the training systems.
>
> I'm a weak player, and normally play Fritz using the 5.32 engine at
> its lowest ELO rating.
>
> I'd like to go for the version of Fritz that has the more human-like
> play (Junior?). Can someone please confirm that it can play sensibly
> at low ELO levels (maybe ~1300?) without just throwing material away
> by really dumb blunders?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark

Shredder Classic and Shredder have a pretty good way to handicap the
engine, without just making silly mistakes, to the level you want.
http://shredderchess.com/index.html

You might also want to check the free Prodeo.
http://members.home.nl/matador/prodeo.htm

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

A good download source for free engines ready to use in Fritz, is the
chessbase.com downloads/engines page. There's a quite weak engine
"Turing," programmed after an historic algorithm from the 1950's. Maybe

you'll like that one.


(Dan) Yeah, I've got Turing. I also bought DelfiT. Time will tell.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

Dan-the-K wrote:
<snip>
> I don't follow. Mark asks for a weak engine but you direct him to Pro
> Deo, rated at 2700 ELO?
>
> How do you dumb down Pro Deo?

Below GUI-level, by assigning (selfdefined, maybe) personalities in an
ini-file associated maner. There's lots of possibilities with this
engine, including severe strenghtreduction.
But; it's a bit technical if you're not used to do that kind of stuff
....

>
<snip>
>
> Dan
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

Put Fritz 5.32 into 'handicap and fun' mode and reduce the blunder level to
about 0,5, then ajust your elo-level , and you won't have to get another CD
at all!!
"Mark" <x@x.x> schreef in bericht
news:6m897155m00k50nr3al5qtjdk3qubtnm9a@4ax.com...
> Hi,
>
> I'm considering "upgrading" from my venerable Fritz 6 to one of the
> newer Fritz 8 range of programs, to benefit from the training systems.
>
> I'm a weak player, and normally play Fritz using the 5.32 engine at
> its lowest ELO rating.
>
> I'd like to go for the version of Fritz that has the more human-like
> play (Junior?). Can someone please confirm that it can play sensibly
> at low ELO levels (maybe ~1300?) without just throwing material away
> by really dumb blunders?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

You could do us all a favor and ask your question from Ed Schröder at
the computer chess club at talkchess.com. It would be nice to know
more about prodeo parameters. I think he has promised to write
instructions some time.

The other alternative is to look at the prodeo .eng -files and exercise
your brains. I'm sure you can compare and edit a few files to get what
you want, because there are plenty of examples.

Chessbase engines may be best dumbed down with the fixed depth levels.
Put them into two plies and turn yourself into a tactical monster

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

Go into GAME/Levels/Friend Mode in the Fritz interface and choose your
positive handicap in hundredths of a pawn. The program will not make
outright blunders but will adapt its strength to fit the handicap you set.
All the Chessbase friendly engines will do this, Fritz8,Shredder9,Hiarcs. I
am not sure whether Crafty will do it also. Also take note of the following
conversion formula for handicap vs ELO. 100 points = .3 of a pawn.

Komputer Korner

"Mark" <x@x.x> wrote in message
news:6m897155m00k50nr3al5qtjdk3qubtnm9a@4ax.com...
> Hi,
>
> I'm considering "upgrading" from my venerable Fritz 6 to one of the
> newer Fritz 8 range of programs, to benefit from the training systems.
>
> I'm a weak player, and normally play Fritz using the 5.32 engine at
> its lowest ELO rating.
>
> I'd like to go for the version of Fritz that has the more human-like
> play (Junior?). Can someone please confirm that it can play sensibly
> at low ELO levels (maybe ~1300?) without just throwing material away
> by really dumb blunders?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

Komputer Korner <kornerNoSpamPlease@rogers.com> wrote:
> Go into GAME/Levels/Friend Mode in the Fritz interface and choose your
> positive handicap in hundredths of a pawn. The program will not make
> outright blunders but will adapt its strength to fit the handicap you
> set.

My experience of `Friend mode' is that the computer would play like a
grandmaster but blunder material every now and again to even things
up. Not realy worth playing against. Handicap mode seems to be much
better, as long as you set the blunder factor quite low (less than half a
pawn, say).


Dave.

--
David Richerby Natural Apple (TM): it's like a tasty
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ fruit but it's completely natural!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

you are right. Friend mode is really just for players less than 1650 in
strength. Above that you are much better off using handicap mode.
Komputer Korner

"David Richerby" <davidr@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
newsWr*iFeOq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
> Komputer Korner <kornerNoSpamPlease@rogers.com> wrote:
> > Go into GAME/Levels/Friend Mode in the Fritz interface and choose your
> > positive handicap in hundredths of a pawn. The program will not make
> > outright blunders but will adapt its strength to fit the handicap you
> > set.
>
> My experience of `Friend mode' is that the computer would play like a
> grandmaster but blunder material every now and again to even things
> up. Not realy worth playing against. Handicap mode seems to be much
> better, as long as you set the blunder factor quite low (less than half a
> pawn, say).
>
>
> Dave.
>
> --
> David Richerby Natural Apple (TM): it's like a
tasty
> www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ fruit but it's completely
natural!