Hungry Components Need Optimized Cooling

[Toxikaraidur]

I cannot think of a decent title beyond that or any less than 30 words without demeaning my actual post, so it will suffice for now.

I will be using a Threadripper 1950X and the GTX 1080TI Poseidon cards with the Phanteks Enthoo Primo case.

It has the best balance of HDD/SDD space along with my coveted 5.25 drive bays (for hot swap hdds, card readers, cdroms, and fan controllers)

The problem is I would LIKE to do two 420 rads in it but I simply. Can. Not.

So with that in mind I want to try to push the 16 core 32 thread 3.4Ghz monster to 3.8-4.5Ghz (the latter being a pipe dream ambition. think 4.0-4.2Ghz max for usefulness)
and I want to see how far I can push the GPU both core clockspeed and memory clockspeed.
I don't believe a single 420 rad can handle all that heat AND provide me with a "cool n quiet" experience. I DO NOT want to use a 480 rad, but I'm coming to a realization that I may have to incorporate a secondary radiator somewhere in the case. Seeing as I don't need a secondary power supply(?) as I'm going with a 1.2Kw unit, so perhaps a 280 rad at the bottom of the case. The problem is that I don't like having a radiator as an intake. I honestly believe it is counterproductive in concept.

Any advice on here would be helpful as this project has most of the knots worked out besides this one and the money needed to build it as of yet. (I'm not afraid of custom loop cooling: if done right it works. I simply dread the upcoming maintenance cycles)

 

[rubix_1011]

First off - are you saying 420 rads as 4x120 and meaning 480 as.....4x140 or something? Technically the only rads thar are 120/220/320/420 are Swiftech, most others go by 120/240/360/480 if following the 120mm x 'X' value.

Secondly, how are you estimating the radiator total you require? Is this just an estimate, or have you attempted to evaluate this into a TDP total?

 

[Toxikaraidur]

First off - are you saying 420 rads as 4x120 and meaning 480 as.....4x140 or something? Technically the only rads thar are 120/220/320/420 are Swiftech, most others go by 120/240/360/480 if following the 120mm x 'X' value.

Secondly, how are you estimating the radiator total you require? Is this just an estimate, or have you attempted to evaluate this into a TDP total?

the radiator i was looking at is a 3x140(420) radiator. Meant to place 3 140mm fans. I want the 140mm fans due to higher air displacement at higher pressures at marginally higher decibel ratings compared to their 120mm counterparts.

the 1950X CPU alone requires 180 watts of heat dissipation. Considering I plan to overclock it, even by just a little, that can go as high as 250 watts or more of required cooling. Combine that with a GTX 1080TI (250 watts plus) and I am looking at a single radiator that needs to cool 500 watts of heat. All while trying to keep it cool and quiet rather than "prepare for takeoff!" levels of aggravating whirrs.

and no I'm not asking about an AIO solution I'm talking about building my own cooling system from parts on various websites that sell said pc-cooling supplies.

 

[rubix_1011]

I would never recommend an AIO for either of those components, especially considering what you wish to accomplish.

So, it would seem that you have a solid grasp on the thermal loads you'll need to account for, which is a great place to start...most people don't understand this concept right away, so this is good news.

I guess I didn't think about the 3x140 in those terms, but it would work. I would say if you were not looking to overclock either component, one radiator might be sufficient...but since you are OC'ing...you will need something else, possibly the 280 you speak of. You're going to want some pretty decent fans for these radiators and I would recommend running in Pull setup, getting as much cool air over the radiators as possible.

What pump are you looking at using?

 

[Toxikaraidur]

I would never recommend an AIO for either of those components, especially considering what you wish to accomplish.

So, it would seem that you have a solid grasp on the thermal loads you'll need to account for, which is a great place to start...most people don't understand this concept right away, so this is good news.

I guess I didn't think about the 3x140 in those terms, but it would work. I would say if you were not looking to overclock either component, one radiator might be sufficient...but since you are OC'ing...you will need something else, possibly the 280 you speak of. You're going to want some pretty decent fans for these radiators and I would recommend running in Pull setup, getting as much cool air over the radiators as possible.

What pump are you looking at using?

Swiftech's MCP655
CPU and GPU on separate loops.
I could say to heck with silencing my hard drives in HDD silencers for a 5.25 bay and go for an overkill pc chassis with tons of radiator support and just do two 420rads as exhaust.

I'm going to be using Push/Pull with Noctua's NFA14 IndustrialPPC IP67 2000rpm fans
107.4CFM
31.5dba
4.18mmH20

I am mindful of their 'loudness' which is why I want such a huge radiator with push/pull. That would allow me to acheive quieter cooling. But at the same time for those 'special' scenarios I can run the fans at full with a huge radiator and a very powerful pump to ensure better cooling when needed but near silence when I don't.

 

[schaft]

I would apologize beforehand that my answer might offend some people.

In my opinion, rather than you try to push to overclock the hardware, you would get much better result on getting change in the software.
I have been busy since feb 2017 and just recently have spare time to look around. My last and current game is Battlefield 1. The last time I know in Feb 2017, its the most demanding cpu since it needed at least 6 thread to optimize it. I am using xeon E5-26xxL V4 (12 core 24 threads, got it used for USD$130) and its problem is 1,7GHz clock which is very low. With GTX 1060 6Gb (oc +200MHz on gpu and vram), 4x4Gb DDR4 2400 quad channel ram and standard 480Gb SSD, it ran around 60-65 fps (1080 ultra 100% scaling) with sometimes dip to 45 fps. The max cpu usage at that time was 25%.

Yesterday when I start browsing any news in BF1 forum, there is a discussion that we can add a user.cfg that basically tell the game to use 12 threads instead of standard 6 threads. The result: The max cpu usage upped to 50% and the dip just gone and fps get boost to 65-80 fps.
With that 100% "real" cpu performance boost in BF1, my current standard intel xeon heatsink($40 for heatsink were too damn expensive, my initial booked $15 heatsink were stupidly sold to other guy and I was too excited when my xeon arrive and this heatsink is what available at that time) is still capable to maintain 50 degree celcius. my 12 threads that BF1 maximum use is 80%, where the rest of the threads move around a bit.

What I meant to say is, your current hardware is far beyond what application can use. Even If you pushed it, it will not get you more than 5% "real" performance boost and will endanger your hardware not to mention wasting energy in doing so. My example above shows that software is actually needed more attention than hardware in order to boost your performance.

 

[Toxikaraidur]

I would apologize beforehand that my answer might offend some people.

In my opinion, rather than you try to push to overclock the hardware, you would get much better result on getting change in the software.
I have been busy since feb 2017 and just recently have spare time to look around. My last and current game is Battlefield 1. The last time I know in Feb 2017, its the most demanding cpu since it needed at least 6 thread to optimize it. I am using xeon E5-26xxL V4 (12 core 24 threads, got it used for USD$130) and its problem is 1,7GHz clock which is very low. With GTX 1060 6Gb (oc +200MHz on gpu and vram), 4x4Gb DDR4 2400 quad channel ram and standard 480Gb SSD, it ran around 60-65 fps (1080 ultra 100% scaling) with sometimes dip to 45 fps. The max cpu usage at that time was 25%.

Yesterday when I start browsing any news in BF1 forum, there is a discussion that we can add a user.cfg that basically tell the game to use 12 threads instead of standard 6 threads. The result: The max cpu usage upped to 50% and the dip just gone and fps get boost to 65-80 fps.
With that 100% "real" cpu performance boost in BF1, my current standard intel xeon heatsink($40 for heatsink were too damn expensive, my initial booked $15 heatsink were stupidly sold to other guy and I was too excited when my xeon arrive and this heatsink is what available at that time) is still capable to maintain 50 degree celcius. my 12 threads that BF1 maximum use is 80%, where the rest of the threads move around a bit.

What I meant to say is, your current hardware is far beyond what application can use. Even If you pushed it, it will not get you more than 5% "real" performance boost and will endanger your hardware not to mention wasting energy in doing so. My example above shows that software is actually needed more attention than hardware in order to boost your performance.

This whole computer isn't about 'i need the best hardware for FPS' it's going to be my work platform for various jobs. Megatasking, encoding, programming, rendering, modeling, animation, etc. It is interesting to know that some games have stupidly poor optimization: particularly the new ones. Massive hardware power, massive hardware cooling:

anyone see smoke? if not look again because there's a fire lit under these components.

In other words I am going to be working with this hardware to make my games. Why I don't go with a 2x Xeon machine with Quadros? One word: Budget.
Spending upwards of 30-70 thousand dollars on a single computer does not appeal to me. My last name is not Rockefeller and never will be. Packing the most powerful hardware I can being conscious of the price and specs of each component is good. I don't care to shave it down to 'i can program on it somewhat but I have to close my other tabs'.
This is getting off-topic now but I hope you understand a bit more as to why I'm going with a ThreadRipper 1950X and a GTX 1080TI. It's a monster workstation that just happens to be exceedingly powerful for most other entertainment applications.

 

[rubix_1011]

If you're only cooling a CPU and 1 GPU, you could run them on a single loop and take advantage of both components being cooled by all radiators, but if you want to allocate dual loops to isolate thermal loads and manage them separately, you can also do so.

You also wouldn't need D5's to run each loop - you could use DDC's as well. Either of pump will work very well for your application, though. I own and have used both DDC and D5 pumps for watercooling...you really cannot go wrong with either.