[SOLVED] Hybrid system - energy saving 101

[jbprewitt]

Hi,

so I think my about 15 year old 920 setup is going to kick the bucket. I was going to wait for zen4 but it seems time is running out.

so I do three things on my computer

1. occasional gaming. nothing fancy, witcher 3, counterstrike, but yeah i would like to give cyberpunk a go if i do get a new machine.
2. lots and lots of boring word/excel stuff, usually with a few background things open
3. data heavy, occasionally cpu heaving analysis

So i figure for the first one, a ryzn or intel standard setup with a decent graphics card is best, with emphasis on the graphics unit.
For the second one, i was thinking of getting a boxed low energy ready system. or just yet another docking station for my laptop. Focus is on keeping energy low. On the other hand, I do have 2 screens, one is 1920x1080 and the other is 2560x1440. also, i do want good sound to get out to play while i work, i sort of insist on an optical connector.
for the third, a threadripper setup would be best. i guess, 10ge is a must, so are ssds.

Since I am not going to buy 3 setups, i am going to ditch the threadripper. I think any up to date cpu is pretty good compared to my 920 intel, so that leaves a 10gbe connection as a must on the heavy load computer, which is sort of rare for the am4 it seems.

for the second one, i was thinking. one is probably not available and second is...well here we go what I was thinking:
1) I read that there might be way to turn the gpu off if not needed - since its going to be one of the biggest wattage eaters and even takes quite a bite in office mode. question: is that possible: amd comes with built in gpus, but is it possible to switch on the go? i read that there is a function where windows determines which program to run on which gpu, but how does that work connector wise? i mean the graphics card has its connectors and the in bulid gpu has its? so...you guys think this might work?

for number 2 i guess its just fiction:

2) is there any application to run two computers under one desktop enviroment and assign applications to different systems? i have never heard of such a thing, it would be like a mini cloud computer, consisting of just 2 "clouds", but i also have never heard of something that assigns programs to a "subcloud". While i do think this would be really really fancy and cool, its probably not existing or not practical. what i mean is this: i work on the small machine, then i decide to play along the working enviroment, so i start up the other engine, assign screen two and a game to it and go, keyboard and mouse shared. that is a bit one, i can only operate one set of input gadgets at a time, switiching for hardware reasons is exactly what i want to not do.

well i guess that would be the last option, to just operate two machines in parallel. but that is something i really dont want, i dont want two keyboards and two mice on my desktop or switches that i have to hit everytime i need to input the other system. or i just buy a regular computer and accept the electric bill as it is. but given that my computer is a main player on our energy bill...due to it running almost 12h a day it does warrant a thought or two to put into.

also i dont mind putting some money in it. i used to buy a decent mb and a lower end cpu, and upgraded ram etc along the way. as you can see i dont get a new system every other year but rather when it stops working. which seems to be the case now. not sure whats going on, but i have had so many glitches and problems i spend a considerable time fixing things which has to stop. recently i get start up errors evervy second time. i guess one of my ram sticks got busted. so: time for something new.

help appreciated.

 

[Flayed]

The chipmakers are pretty good these days at optimizing power usage. Graphics cards will run in a low power state when not being taxed. The same for CPUs

You could get a 65W CPU such as a Ryzen 5600X or 3600 and a 125W GPU such as a 1660 Super (if you can find one) it would be pretty good for gaming at 1080p

 

[jbprewitt]

From what i have read, the low power state of gpus is significant. and power usage is good if you calculate power per cpu processes, but not in terms of total usage, more cores need more energy, even idle. I've looked at mini pcs, and those come at incrediblely low powers, however, i find them quite pricy for what they offer, plus they all dont offer decent sound line outs. which isnt so bad I guess. but still, the input problem remains. is there a keyboard that can toggle inputs to different systems (+mouse)?

 

[kanewolf]

Since I am not going to buy 3 setups, i am going to ditch the threadripper. I think any up to date cpu is pretty good compared to my 920 intel, so that leaves a 10gbe connection as a must on the heavy load computer, which is sort of rare for the am4 it seems.

Just buy an Intel 720 10GE NIC. It is RARE that your network can support more than 2.5GE, unless you have an SSD based NAS.

 

[jbprewitt]

@kanewolf: yeah, 2.5 is probably enough, but i already upgraded to 10gbe and got ssd extensions on the nas to go faster. data is a real thing here, some of my microscopy data files are 100gb a piece, so i dont want this to be the bottle neck ;D

 

[jbprewitt]

by the way, this is what i am talking about:
https://www.quora.com/Do-integrated-GPU-and-dedicated-GPU-work-in-unison-with-each-other

GPU switching - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[kanewolf]

by the way, this is what i am talking about:
https://www.quora.com/Do-integrated-GPU-and-dedicated-GPU-work-in-unison-with-each-other

GPU switching - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

GPU switching works on laptops, not desktops. The integrated GPU has different video output ports. You could use a video switch, but it is generally not practical with a desktop. They show desktop wattages in that Wikipedia article, but I am not aware of any functional desktop systems that support this.

 

[jbprewitt]

thanks. yeah. i couldnt find anything either. but that sort of makes built in gpus quite obsolete for almost all regular builds, correct? with the exception of a dedicated office computer?

 

[USAFRet]

but given that my computer is a main player on our energy bill

Are you sure of this?

We see this type of thing often.

In the grand scheme of a residential house or apt electricity consumption, a PC is pretty far down the list of bad actors. I know it is in my realm.

 

[jbprewitt]

jipp. my computer gets to 55-60kwh a year being third. my fridge/freezer and laundry are around 140-160 on no1 and 2. everything else isnt really worth mentioning.

 

[Flayed]

jipp. my computer gets to 55-60kwh a year being third. my fridge/freezer and laundry are around 140-160 on no1 and 2. everything else isnt really worth mentioning.

Where I live the electricity costs 15p per KWH so that would be £9 per year.

 

[USAFRet]

Where I live the electricity costs 15p per KWH so that would be £9 per year.

Indeed.
60kWh annual would be $7.20 for me.

Methinks there is a measuring error somewhere.

 

[jbprewitt]

good for you guys. its about 20-25€ here.

 

[Flayed]

good for you guys. its about 20-25€ here.

25 Euro per KWH? Where do you live?

 

[kanewolf]

25 Euro per KWH? Where do you live?

I am guessing this is for the 60KWh he referred to above. Germany is about 30 euro cents / KWh , so 18 Euro for the 60KWh. Local costs could be higher than the web averages I could find.

 

[jbprewitt]

exactly.

but all that doesnt help my question

 

[punkncat]

So, to be sure I am understanding the situation. You wish to pay $300 PLUS for an item that will save you some power, equaling less than $30 a year, because you are worried about your power bill? Never mind that it would be well over a decade to realize any aspect of savings from doing so disregarding obsolescence?

Maybe you aren't thinking this through with the right perspective?


And just to be clear about where I get the supposition is that you wish to have a powerful system that stays off unless you are gaming, but wish to pay for a cheap low footprint item to do the office work.

 

[jbprewitt]

so the way i see it the "cheap low footprint item" has paid for itself in 3-4 years. because they are around 100 euro. some even less, maybe 150 tops. given that energery prices will rise significantly with the new carbon tax, say its 5 years. given that my current machine has been running for at least 10 plus years, more like 15, that seems okay to me. as for the other rigg, yeah thats costly, but i would buy that anyway. my question is if there is a way to make it work well.

quite frankly i am not sure why you guys want to argue with me about the premises of this. I've calculated it through and i think that given projections on prices even a 200€ office dedicated machine will have saved me the buying price in 4-5 years. sure, I could be wrong, its just projections. lets say it makes no sense whatsoever. so? that still leaves the question if its doable to cooperate between two systems in a meaningful manner.

 

[Flayed]

You would have to cut some serious corners to build an office PC for 200.
If you want low power you could probably use a Raspberry Pi 4 for office tasks
Or buy a cheap laptop they are designed to be low power

 

[jbprewitt]

not really....https://www.amazon.de/MSI-Cubi-N-8-gl-001b-Desktop-PC/dp/B07D713B6T/ref=pd_sbs_147_1/260-2804216-8008818?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07D713B6T&pd_rd_r=a5a9f1a3-5033-4e47-abc4-0a579b1df5db&pd_rd_w=QhxFu&pd_rd_wg=y8aqh&pf_rd_p=ad79fb78-2eb6-4fd8-b228-cb6e6b4589d9&pf_rd_r=NPYVFEHTMSSKQTF4PZA3&psc=1&refRID=NPYVFEHTMSSKQTF4PZA3

 

[USAFRet]

not really....https://www.amazon.de/MSI-Cubi-N-8-gl-001b-Desktop-PC/dp/B07D713B6T/ref=pd_sbs_147_1/260-2804216-8008818?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07D713B6T&pd_rd_r=a5a9f1a3-5033-4e47-abc4-0a579b1df5db&pd_rd_w=QhxFu&pd_rd_wg=y8aqh&pf_rd_p=ad79fb78-2eb6-4fd8-b228-cb6e6b4589d9&pf_rd_r=NPYVFEHTMSSKQTF4PZA3&psc=1&refRID=NPYVFEHTMSSKQTF4PZA3

https://www.amazon.de/MSI-Cubi-N-8-gl-001b-Desktop-PC/dp/B07D713B6T

That's not a "build". And that €104 doesn't include RAM or M.2 drive. So, double that pricetag.

I have a similar size Beelink. More expensive, but much more powerful.

 

[jbprewitt]

it can go lower, but i didnt say 100, i said 100, 150 tops. which is acurate. ram is nothing these days, hdd i can use old.

 

[USAFRet]

it can go lower, but i didnt say 100, i said 100, 150 tops. which is acurate. ram is nothing these days, hdd i can use old.

That can only use an M.2 NVMe drive.
No internal space or connections for an HDD.

And, it is pretty low power.

Can you use it as a basic low power office system? Sure. As long as you are aware of its limitations.
Absolutely won't do cyberpunk on it.

 

[jbprewitt]

that was never the plan. thats why i was planing to merge to computers. which surprisingly enough, our it department managed to do today. they cant get you to be able to print on the printer next to your computer, but they can do this. so...thanks, problem solved! they gave me some fancy usb switch, it does most of the switching automatically but can be switched manually. switches both screens, keyboard mouse, all at the same time. cool stuff!

about the nvme ssd, yeah, i did not see that. good point.

 

[jbprewitt]

Can you guys give me a recommendation for a mini pc? i looked at the amd driven brix from gigabyte, the video capabilities seem to cover my need for 2 screens well. but its a bit old for pci 3, but i wonder if it really matters. also amd has just confirmed to go zen2 on embedded processors. so i am willing to make compromises on this thing, but wattage should be low, and my two screens have to be supported, plus at least 1gbe. that is the minimum (1920x1080 and 2560x1440). i dont think the processor power matters that much, i guess everything today beats my intel 920.