Question Hybrid system upgrade using some old parts

[Daniel_Daniel]

OK

So I want to replace my current PC, which is used for a mix of gaming, home office, and media storage. I'll be moving from Windows 10 to Windows 11.

I'm hoping to not have to make any updates for 4-5 years, because I'm lazy. And, if I can, I want to re-use the current case, PSU, and GPU.

I've got a strong preference for quiet PCs.

The current case is Cooler Master Silencio 452. https://www.coolermaster.com/au/en-au/catalog/legacy-products/cases/silencio452/
The current PSU is a Corsair 650w TX650M ATX. <probably the bronze based on the price at the time, but I haven't opened the case to check>
The current GPU is a ZotacRTX 3060 ti oc.

The case and PSU were bought in June 2018, the GPU in March 2022.


The new stuff:
CPU -i5-12400F ww.ple.com.au/Products/650477/intel-core-i5-12400f-alder-lake-6-core-12-thread-up-to-44ghz-lga1700-no-igpu-retail-box ($259)
Motherboard - MSI MAG B660 TOMAHAWK WIFI DDR4 LGA 1700 ATX Motherboard https://www.scorptec.com.au/product/software/windows/93006-kw9-00632?gclid=Cj0KCQiAz9ieBhCIARIsACB0oGLekY5MD8EOmtJy-LXi33s-BuFeJrov8rpphCJfjXVEi-EeOxgiujcaAtddEALw_wcB ($289)
Fans - 3 x be quiet! SILENT WINGS PRO 4 PWM 120mm Fan https://www.scorptec.com.au/product/cooling/120mm-fans/96820-bl098 ($165)
Memory - 2 x Corsair 16GB (2 x8) vengence https://www.umart.com.au/product/corsair-16gb-2-x8-cmk16gx4m2b3200c16-ddr4-3200mhz-vengeance-lpx-dimm-black-38201 ($168)
Storage - 1 x Samsung 1TB 870 EVO 2.5in SATA SSD ($144)
1 x Samsung 4TB 870 QVO 2.5in SATA SSD https://www.umart.com.au/product/samsung-4tb-870-qvo-2-5in-sata-ssd-56606 ($495)
Windows - Windows 11 home https://www.scorptec.com.au/product/software/windows/93006-kw9-00632?gclid=Cj0KCQiAz9ieBhCIARIsACB0oGLekY5MD8EOmtJy-LXi33s-BuFeJrov8rpphCJfjXVEi-EeOxgiujcaAtddEALw_wcB ($159)
Office - Office home 2021 https://www.scorptec.com.au/product/software/office-applications/92263-79g-05386?gclid=Cj0KCQiAz9ieBhCIARIsACB0oGJp9q3TDj8zpAHP1jdyzv4VeyWHSPOckeoBLQ-PGKZDTX7LZCGyjKAaAjtkEALw_wcB ($159)
$ 1838

https://au.pcpartpicker.com/user/Daniel_Daniel/saved/qnBmLk

PC Part picker threw up the following warnings:

The MSI MAG B660 TOMAHAWK WIFI DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard supports the Intel Core i5-12400F 2.5 GHz 6-Core Processor with BIOS version 7D41v22. If the motherboard is using an older BIOS version, upgrading the BIOS will be necessary to support the CPU.
A 3.5" to 2.5" bay adapter is required.
The MSI MAG B660 TOMAHAWK WIFI DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard has an additional 8-pin EPS power connector but the Corsair TX650M 650 W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply does not have any available. This connector is used to supply additional current. While the system will likely still run without it, higher current demands or extreme overclocking may require it.
Disclaimer: Some physical dimension constraints are currently not checked, such as CPU coolers and RAM clearance.

A few questions for the brains trust:

1. Any obvious problems or improvements? Any obvious overspends?
2. Any issues with the older case - I'm guessing at compatibility with usbs and the above-mentioned drive bay comment, but really I'm just guessing (note: no problems at the moment that I've noticed).
3. Likewise, any probs with the old PSU? I'm tempted to upgrade anyway as part of my quest for quiet, and I don't like the above warning about the motherboard.

Thanks

Daniel

 

[MrN1ce9uy]

IMO the F series Intel CPUs are a disgrace to the world. The integrated graphics are more usable than one would think. AMD has moved away from making CPUs with no integrated graphics, meanwhile, Intel thought it was something to start doing! 🤢 Why they even chose to make the F series is just ridiculous (to make money I'm sure.) If you make a good product, don't screw it up! Eventually, people will start to notice your product isn't as good, and they will no longer buy it, and you will have wasted the money you thought you were going to make. I'm ranting here, but I'm sick of the biggest tech companies choosing to make watered down products in attempts to make more money. If you want to water down a product to make more money, get into the disposable razor business, not the microprocessor business.

 

[Daniel_Daniel]

IMO the F series Intel CPUs are a disgrace to the world. The integrated graphics are more usable than one would think. AMD has moved away from making CPUs with no integrated graphics, meanwhile, Intel thought it was something to start doing! 🤢 Why they even chose to make the F series is just ridiculous (to make money I'm sure.) If you make a good product, don't screw it up! Eventually, people will start to notice your product isn't as good, and they will no longer buy it, and you will have wasted the money you thought you were going to make. I'm ranting here, but I'm sick of the biggest tech companies choosing to make watered down products in attempts to make more money. If you want to water down a product to make more money, get into the disposable razor business, not the microprocessor business.

Thanks @MrN1ce9uy !

The difference in CPUs is only about $40, so that’s good to know.

I got a private message telling me I may as well upgrade the PSU.

Any other ideas?

 

[MrN1ce9uy]

I was going to say upgrade your PSU also. The Orange Label TXm are quite old.

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

The MSI MAG B660 TOMAHAWK WIFI DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard has an additional 8-pin EPS power connector but the Corsair TX650M 650 W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply does not have any available.

you will need to determine if your intended system can operate without the extra 8pin CPU power.
if necessary then you will need a better power supply.

The difference in CPUs is only about $40

while having a graphics processor integrated into the CPU can help with troubleshooting and any unexpected GPU failures, it is not a necessary feature when using a dedicated graphics card.

i have always used K model Intel processors, though i have not actually used the integrated graphics on any of my personal systems in probably 10+ years.

so if that $40 is a big deal in your budget, don't worry about the iGPU and go ahead with the F model.
maybe just be sure to have an old backup dedicated GPU around if needed for graphics troubleshooting.

 

[logainofhades]

I would not expect a 6c/12t cpu to make it 4-5yrs, unless you play very undemanding e-sports titles. Your case is not very good for airflow. You want quiet, you may want something that is going to help keep components cool enough to keep the noise down. Also the stock cooler is noisy. A new case would be cheaper than those fans, also. I wouldn't buy a 2.5" drive, for an OS drive, in a system that can run NVME. Crucial P5 plus, and a 4tb MX500 is cheaper, and faster, combo. Do not buy 2 separate 16gb kits, of ram. Just buy a single 2x16gb kit. I agree with the others regarding replacing that PSU. What is your max budget?

 

[Daniel_Daniel]

I would not expect a 6c/12t cpu to make it 4-5yrs, unless you play very undemanding e-sports titles. Your case is not very good for airflow. You want quiet, you may want something that is going to help keep components cool enough to keep the noise down. Also the stock cooler is noisy. A new case would be cheaper than those fans, also. I wouldn't buy a 2.5" drive, for an OS drive, in a system that can run NVME. Crucial P5 plus, and a 4tb MX500 is cheaper, and faster, combo. Do not buy 2 separate 16gb kits, of ram. Just buy a single 2x16gb kit. I agree with the others regarding replacing that PSU. What is your max budget?

Thanks @logainofhades
Lots to think about.
I rarely play games, so I'm not worrying about cooking the CPU.
Good point re: the case though. I have a crush on the Be Quiet range of stuff, but I can get a case with some new fans in it for around $150.
Total budget - about $2200 (prefer less though) - I'm currently at $1850 (without accounting for any savings you suggested), but now need a new PSU.

 

[logainofhades]

I was more worried about core count, vs cooking your CPU, for 4-5yr timeframe you are thinking. Games are only going to get more core heavy, over the years. I would do something more like this, given you have the budget.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-13500 2.5 GHz 14-Core Processor ($419.00 @ Centre Com)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! Pure Rock 2 CPU Cooler ($59.00 @ Scorptec)
Motherboard: Gigabyte B760 GAMING X DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($289.18 @ Amazon Australia)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($126.00 @ I-Tech)
Storage: Crucial P5 Plus 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($145.80 @ Amazon Australia)
Storage: Crucial MX500 4 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($379.00 @ Centre Com)
Video Card: Zotac GAMING Twin Edge OC GeForce RTX 3060 Ti LHR 8 GB Video Card ($0.00)
Case: Lian Li LANCOOL 215 ATX Mid Tower Case ($139.00 @ Centre Com)
Power Supply: Thermaltake Toughpower 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply ($139.00 @ Amazon Australia)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 11 Home OEM - DVD 64-bit ($139.00 @ Centre Com)
Custom: Microsoft Office Home and Student 2021, Retail ($159.00 @ Scorptec)
Total: $1993.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-01-31 01:13 AEDT+1100

 

[geofelt]

Your plan is reasonable.

Some thoughts:

For the same price, you can buy the 13th gen I3-3100 which will be some 15% stronger and will include integrated graphics:
https://www.scorptec.com.au/product/cpu/intel-socket-1700/101306-bx8071513100
Yes, you can get the 13100F for $200:
https://www.scorptec.com.au/product/cpu/intel-socket-1700/101307-bx8071513100f
I do like the integrated graphics which gives you quick sync:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/quick-sync-video/quick-sync-video-general.html
The 13100 will come with a stock cooler that is adequate.
Under heavy load, it will spin up and get louder.
The Noctua NH-U12s will be as quiet as you want to make it.
https://www.scorptec.com.au/product/cooling/cpu-coolers-air/49761-nh-u12s

It is a mistake to buy two 16gb ram kits.
Ram must be matched to operate properly.
Buy a 2 x 16gb kit instead:
https://www.umart.com.au/product/corsair-32gb-2x16gb-cmk32gx4m2e3200c16-vengeance-lpx-3200mhz-ddr4-ram-58193

Noise comes from fans spinning at high rpm.
The included 800 rpm fans will be largely inaudible.
But, to do better, buy two 140mm front intake fans.
140mm moves more air at lower rpm.
Noctua makes very good fans.
Two of their 140mm fans will cost you less.
They can run at 1500 rpm, but you can slow down a fast fan to suit your noise vs. cooling equation
https://www.scorptec.com.au/product/cooling/140mmplus-fans/55270-nf-p14s-redux-1500-pwm

While your psu is not the best, it seems to be ok powering your 3060ti.
You can keep it so long as it gives you no trouble.

 

[logainofhades]

I wouldn't choose a 13100, over a 12400. It isn't stronger, at all.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSJwlVvh7m4

 

[mike paner]

The difference in CPUs is only about $40, so that’s good to know.
I got a private message telling me I may as well upgrade the PSU.
snaptube vidmate

 

[geofelt]

Stronger?? perhaps comparable might be a better description.

It depends on what the user will be doing.
If the user will run apps that can fully load all threads, yes the 12400 is stronger with a passmark
rating of 19525 vs. 13669:
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-12400&id=4677
That is largely because of more processing threads.

But, for normal desktop work, not all threads will get loaded.
In that usage, the single thread performance becomes more important.
The 13100 scores 3676 vs. 3543:
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i3-13100&id=5170

Then, also, the 13100 costs less.

 

[logainofhades]

Those synthetic benchmarks mean little, with regards to real world performance. Even in poorly threaded titles, like CSGO, the 13100 was slower than a 12400. The i3 is only about $30 AUD cheaper, and is slower, in every scenario, of that GN review. A 4c/8t chip, in 2023, is not a 4-5yr cpu, either. Not with the crazy core counts we are seeing, these days.

 

[Daniel_Daniel]

Thanks all for the great input.

I've updated my parts list accordingly: https://au.pcpartpicker.com/user/Daniel_Daniel/saved/qnBmLk

Although I went my own way in a few spots.

Partpicker is giving the bog standard warning that "the MSI MAG B660 TOMAHAWK WIFI DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard supports the Intel Core i5-13500 2.5 GHz 14-Core Processor with BIOS version 7D41v28. If the motherboard is using an older BIOS version, upgrading the BIOS will be necessary to support the CPU. " I've had this before, and I don't think it's an issue.

There's also a warning that the be quiet! Pure Rock 2 CPU Cooler may require a separately available mounting adapter to fit the MSI MAG B660 TOMAHAWK WIFI DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard.

It sounds like this is covered with any new purchases anyway: https://www.bequiet.com/en/contact/lga1700mounting

 

[Why_Me]

Thanks all for the great input.

I've updated my parts list accordingly: https://au.pcpartpicker.com/user/Daniel_Daniel/saved/qnBmLk

Although I went my own way in a few spots.

Partpicker is giving the bog standard warning that "the MSI MAG B660 TOMAHAWK WIFI DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard supports the Intel Core i5-13500 2.5 GHz 14-Core Processor with BIOS version 7D41v28. If the motherboard is using an older BIOS version, upgrading the BIOS will be necessary to support the CPU. " I've had this before, and I don't think it's an issue.

There's also a warning that the be quiet! Pure Rock 2 CPU Cooler may require a separately available mounting adapter to fit the MSI MAG B660 TOMAHAWK WIFI DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard.

It sounds like this is covered with any new purchases anyway: https://www.bequiet.com/en/contact/lga1700mounting

Does that board allow you to update the bios before installing the cpu?

 

[Daniel_Daniel]

Does that board allow you to update the bios before installing the cpu?

Excellent question. The interwebz are utterly unclear on this one, but it's a maybe no.
If I'm not 100% certain, I'll get this instead: https://www.ple.com.au/Products/649122/gigabyte-z690-gaming-x-ddr4-lga1700-atx-desktop-motherboard?gclid=Cj0KCQiA8t2eBhDeARIsAAVEga2MUVGqBkIzQ_5BQox_nJ7M_fiqTgcshoV0QK4bYsxBCoCT87Kk0IQaAm17EALw_wcB

 

[Why_Me]

Excellent question. The interwebz are utterly unclear on this one, but it's a maybe no.
If I'm not 100% certain, I'll get this instead: https://www.ple.com.au/Products/649122/gigabyte-z690-gaming-x-ddr4-lga1700-atx-desktop-motherboard?gclid=Cj0KCQiA8t2eBhDeARIsAAVEga2MUVGqBkIzQ_5BQox_nJ7M_fiqTgcshoV0QK4bYsxBCoCT87Kk0IQaAm17EALw_wcB

You can update the bios with either of these boards using Q-Flash Plus before you install the cpu, gpu and ram.

No wifi
https://au.pcpartpicker.com/product/LNTp99/gigabyte-b660-gaming-x-ddr4-atx-lga1700-motherboard-b660-gaming-x-ddr4

B660 GAMING X DDR4 (rev. 1.0) Key Features | Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global

Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...

www.gigabyte.com

wifi 6
https://au.pcpartpicker.com/product/YZPQzy/gigabyte-b660-gaming-x-ax-ddr4-atx-lga1700-motherboard-b660-gaming-x-ax-ddr4

https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/B660-GAMING-X-AX-DDR4-rev-10#kf

Or you can purchase the B760 version of these boards and no update needed.

https://au.pcpartpicker.com/search/?q=Gigabyte+B760+GAMING+X+

 

[Why_Me]

Better cpu cooler for just a few dollars more. btw the LGA 1700 bracket should be included with all these coolers by now.

https://au.pcpartpicker.com/search/?q=be+quiet!+Shadow+Rock+3

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/be-quiet-shadow-rock-3

 

[logainofhades]

Does that board allow you to update the bios before installing the cpu?

It does not.

 

[geofelt]

Support bios updates for 13th gen were released about July 2020.
Any new motherboard made after that will include the latest available bios.
Unless the motherboard is used or very old stock, I would not be worried.