Question I am down to three GPU choices, need guidance

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vwcrusher

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My current system (about 4 years old) is below. I primarily play RPG games (like Star Citizen); not really into FPS games. At any rate I recently upgraded my 15 year old monitor and I would like to play at 1440p.

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor
MB: Asus TUF GAMING X570-PLUS ATX AM4
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16
PSU: SeaSonic FOCUS Plus 650 Gold 650 W 80+ Gold Certified
GPU: EVGA FTW2 GAMING iCX GeForce GTX 1070 Ti 8 GB
Display: Asus TUF Gaming VG27AQ
Display 2: Benq BL2420PT

In reading through this forum and checking out reviews, I have three potential GPUs.

- 6700, 6700 XT, and 6800 XT, others?

Given the above, I would really appreciate any suggestions as to which way I should go to play at reasonable frame rates and settings. I also am looking to 'future proof' this build until a more comprehensive update is required. In addition I am not completely stuck on the above cards, as I am far from an expert.

If you can I would appreciate what manufacturers to focus on, and who should I avoid.

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to try and provide enough background and conditions so that you have enough information.

Thanks very much
 
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IDProG

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SkyNetRising said:
6800XT will require PSU upgrade. Are you OK with that?
With 6700XT you can keep your current PSU.

RTX 4070 could be an option too.
Click to expand...
Just learn to undervolt.

The power saving from undervolting is massive.

I have a Ryzen 7600 and a GTX 1070, both undervolted to 5GHz @ 1.1V and 1700MHz +350 @ 0.775V. The GPU only consumes 145W when stress-tested instead of the 200W TDP.

For the record, I have a 650W PSU, and you can bet that I will use the same PSU for my future CPU and GPU upgrade.
 
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vwcrusher

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SkyNetRising said:
6800XT will require PSU upgrade. Are you OK with that?
With 6700XT you can keep your current PSU.

RTX 4070 could be an option too.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. Regarding replacing PSU, I am attempting to not be penny-wise and pound-foolish. In your opinion does it make longer term sense to invest more in the GPU and PSU? Or the benefit for the type of games I play will be out of proportion to the relative investment?

I suppose the bottom line is if it will provide noticeable difference in game play and longer term future proofing, then yes. Although adding the additional cost of the 6800 xt (+$200) to a new PSU ($150?)...that is roughly twice the cost of the 6700 XT. What do you think?
 
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IDProG

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vwcrusher said:
Thanks for the reply. Regarding replacing PSU, I am attempting to not be penny-wise and pound-foolish. In your opinion does it make longer term sense to invest more in the GPU and PSU? Or the benefit for the type of games I play will be out of proportion to the relative investment?

I suppose the bottom line is if it will provide noticeable difference in game play and longer term future proofing, then yes. Although adding the additional cost of the 6800 xt (+$200) to a new PSU ($150?)...that is roughly twice the cost of the 6700 XT. What do you think?
Click to expand...
It's not necessary to upgrade the PSU. The recommended PSU is only for absolute beginners that probably have no idea what TDP is.

More experienced PC builders know better than following an arbitrary number.

Your PSU can handle even a 7800X3D + 7900XTX if you want to. It's still way below 600W power consumption, let alone the 650W limit.

Your PSU is high quality, so even constant 600W will still be fine for years.

You can also try undervolting your parts.
 
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geofelt

geofelt

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Many such games are cpu limited more than graphics limited.

Take the time to see if you really would benefit from a graphics card upgrade.
Run YOUR games, but lower your resolution and eye candy.
This makes the graphics card loaf a bit.
If your FPS increases, it indicates that your cpu is strong enough to drive a better graphics configuration.
If your FPS stays the same, you are likely more cpu limited.
The 3700X is not the fastest cpu around.
Run the cpu-Z bench test and look at the single thread performance rating.
You should see about 528.
Here are some other scores:

valid.x86.fr

CPU-Z Benchmark for AMD Ryzen 7 3700X (1T) - CPU-Z VALIDATOR

Best CPU performance - 64-bit - June 2024
valid.x86.fr valid.x86.fr
 
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vwcrusher

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geofelt said:
Many such games are cpu limited more than graphics limited.

Take the time to see if you really would benefit from a graphics card upgrade.
Run YOUR games, but lower your resolution and eye candy.
This makes the graphics card loaf a bit.
If your FPS increases, it indicates that your cpu is strong enough to drive a better graphics configuration.
If your FPS stays the same, you are likely more cpu limited.
The 3700X is not the fastest cpu around.
Run the cpu-Z bench test and look at the single thread performance rating.
You should see about 528.
Here are some other scores:

valid.x86.fr

CPU-Z Benchmark for AMD Ryzen 7 3700X (1T) - CPU-Z VALIDATOR

Best CPU performance - 64-bit - June 2024
valid.x86.fr valid.x86.fr
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply; I usually run the game at the highest quality setting. I monitored FPS while turning it down to low and honestly it didn't change that much.

If I understand your supposition, this means that I am not necessarily GPU-limited, but more likely CPU limited....no?

Also, unfortunately I was unable to download a copy of cpu-Z bench test....
 
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geofelt

geofelt

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vwcrusher said:
Thanks for the reply; I usually run the game at the highest quality setting. I monitored FPS while turning it down to low and honestly it didn't change that much.

If I understand your supposition, this means that I am not necessarily GPU-limited, but more likely CPU limited....no?

Also, unfortunately I was unable to download a copy of cpu-Z bench test....
Click to expand...
Exactly, it indicates to me that your limiting factor is the cpu, not the gpu.
sims, mmo and strategy games are quite dependent on the single thread performance of the processor.

You download CPU-Z here:
www.techpowerup.com

CPU-Z 2.09 Download

CPU-Z is a freeware that gathers information on some of the main devices of your system: Processor name and number, codename, process, package, c
www.techpowerup.com www.techpowerup.com
When you start cpu-Z you should see a tab on top called bench.
You will want to select the bench cpu option, not the stress cpu option.
 
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vwcrusher

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geofelt said:
Exactly, it indicates to me that your limiting factor is the cpu, not the gpu.
sims, mmo and strategy games are quite dependent on the single thread performance of the processor.

You download CPU-Z here:
www.techpowerup.com

CPU-Z 2.09 Download

CPU-Z is a freeware that gathers information on some of the main devices of your system: Processor name and number, codename, process, package, c
www.techpowerup.com www.techpowerup.com
When you start cpu-Z you should see a tab on top called bench.
You will want to select the bench cpu option, not the stress cpu option.
Click to expand...

Ok, thanks...I ran it as you suggested - the score was 494. I am thinking that this is not as high as we'd like. Does this suggest that a CPU upgrade is preferred over my old nvidea GPU? What would you suggest?
 
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geofelt

geofelt

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vwcrusher said:
Ok, thanks...I ran it as you suggested - the score was 494. I am thinking that this is not as high as we'd like. Does this suggest that a CPU upgrade is preferred over my old nvidea GPU? What would you suggest?
Click to expand...
The cpu-Z bench is a compendium of all who ran the test. Many will come from overclocking enthusiasts with fast ram. I would not
Be overly concerned.
Here are the processors that your motherboard supports:

TUF GAMING X570-PLUS｜Motherboards｜ASUS USA

ASUS TUF Gaming motherboards distill essential elements of the latest Intel® platform and combine them with game-ready features and proven durability. Engineered with military-grade components, an upgraded power solution and a comprehensive set of cooling options, each ASUS TUF Gaming...
www.asus.com www.asus.com
The 5800X would be a modest upgrade.
Some may suggest the 5800X3D for gaming.
If that is all you truly do, then perhaps.
But in anything other than gaming is is sluggish and I am not liking that or recommending the x3d.

If you want anything stronger, you will need a motherboard change. Latest gen products are definitely faster
Do you have a budget?
 
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vwcrusher

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geofelt said:
The cpu-Z bench is a compendium of all who ran the test. Many will come from overclocking enthusiasts with fast ram. I would not
Be overly concerned.
Here are the processors that your motherboard supports:

TUF GAMING X570-PLUS｜Motherboards｜ASUS USA

ASUS TUF Gaming motherboards distill essential elements of the latest Intel® platform and combine them with game-ready features and proven durability. Engineered with military-grade components, an upgraded power solution and a comprehensive set of cooling options, each ASUS TUF Gaming...
www.asus.com www.asus.com
The 5800X would be a modest upgrade.
Some may suggest the 5800X3D for gaming.
If that is all you truly do, then perhaps.
But in anything other than gaming is is sluggish and I am not liking that or recommending the x3d.

If you want anything stronger, you will need a motherboard change. Latest gen products are definitely faster
Do you have a budget?
Click to expand...

Thanks very much. I would like your perspective regarding a 'modest upgrade' versus one that may provide more 'future proofing.' For roughly $200 I can obtain the 5800x and be set for a while. By the same token what would you suggest for an upgrade that would include a new MB? And I would appreciate any specific model that you might suggest.

I also might add that in looking at the performance data when in game, the GPU seems to be in the 90s most of the time.
 
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The Historical Fidelity

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vwcrusher said:
Thanks very much. I would like your perspective regarding a 'modest upgrade' versus one that may provide more 'future proofing.' For roughly $200 I can obtain the 5800x and be set for a while. By the same token what would you suggest for an upgrade that would include a new MB? And I would appreciate any specific model that you might suggest.

I also might add that in looking at the performance data when in game, the GPU seems to be in the 90s most of the time.
Click to expand...
Star citizen is a GPU limited game, I’d prioritize a 6800xt over a CPU upgrade at this time. Star citizen uses CryEngine 3 which is notorious for wanting powerful graphics cards to push all the eye candy it sounds like you enjoy.

Checking the star citizen recommended specs, it says “quad core sandy bridge or later, AMD bulldozer or later, and a 2070 or 5700xt for optimum performance.” Obviously CPU performance is not prioritized in these specs since sandybridge and bulldozer are from 2013.
 
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"future proofing " is an illusion.
4 years ago, one would have said that you were "future proofed" in that there were processor upgrades available.
But, today, there are more cost/effective processors available, except that you need a new motherboard.

Games are not fully overlapped cpu/gpu
Sometimes the gpu needs to wait on the cpu to get more frames.
Games need to wait on operator input.
Sometimes, the cpu needs to wait until the latest frame is presented before proceeding.
100% utilization really is not good. It suggests that something is waiting on that resource.

Your 3700X capability can be represented by the passmark performance numbers.
It has 16 processing threads. Games rarely use more than 4-6 intensely. Multiplayer may be an exception.
When all 16 threads are fully utilized the rating is 22660. The single thread rating is 2664.

By comparison, the 5800x is 16 28433/3492. Not bad for $200.

As a plus for a simple cpu upgrade is that you will nave no motherboard issues and will not have to reinstall windows and apps.

The newer $310 R7-7700X is 16 36513/4279. A very good jump in single thread performance.

A reader more familiar with amd motherboards can suggest one for you.
You will need new DDR5 ram; AM5 is DDR5 only.

On the intel side, a $305 I5-13600K has 20 threads and a similar rating of 38442/4187
You would want a Z790 DDR4 based motherboard which will be available <$200.
That lets you reuse your DDR4 ram.
Turns out that app performance with DDR4 is similar to DDR5.
 
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vwcrusher

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Thanks for the replies; actually, I am thinking that perhaps the most practical solution is to both upgrade my CPU to the 5800x ($200) as well as my GPU to the 6700XT ($320). Both are fairly risk-free upgrades. Thoughts?

Also, I have read that potential hi quality manufactures of GPUs, at least for this model are Powercolor and Sapphire; are there any other that can be recommended?
 
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The Historical Fidelity

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vwcrusher said:
Thanks for the replies; actually, I am thinking that perhaps the most practical solution is to both upgrade my CPU to the 5800x ($200) as well as my GPU to the 6700XT ($320). Both are fairly risk-free upgrades. Thoughts?

Also, I have read that potential hi quality manufactures of GPUs, at least for this model are Powercolor and Sapphire; are there any other that can be recommended?
Click to expand...
I have never had a single problem with Asus graphics cards. Also I strongly suggest the rx 6800 for the 16 GB vram buffer. The 12 GB on the 6700 xt is going to be a bottleneck in a year or 2

There is a sapphire rx 6800 for $469.99 on Newegg.

PowerColor Fighter AMD Radeon™ RX 6800 Gaming Graphics card with 16GB GDDR6 memory, powered by AMD RDNA™ 2, Raytracing, PCI Express 4.0, HDMI 2.1, AMD Infinity Cache

$449.99 on Amazon
 
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vwcrusher

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The Historical Fidelity said:
I have never had a single problem with Asus graphics cards. Also I strongly suggest the rx 6800 for the 16 GB vram buffer. The 12 GB on the 6700 xt is going to be a bottleneck in a year or 2

There is a sapphire rx 6800 for $469.99 on Newegg.

PowerColor Fighter AMD Radeon™ RX 6800 Gaming Graphics card with 16GB GDDR6 memory, powered by AMD RDNA™ 2, Raytracing, PCI Express 4.0, HDMI 2.1, AMD Infinity Cache

$449.99 on Amazon
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestions; $450 is getting a bit out of my price range, but I do understand the why you recommended it.

I looked in PP for potential 6700XTs and found only three sort of in my price range; is any one of these preferred? Thanks all.

 
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The Historical Fidelity

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vwcrusher said:
Thanks for the suggestions; $450 is getting a bit out of my price range, but I do understand the why you recommended it.

I looked in PP for potential 6700XTs and found only three sort of in my price range; is any one of these preferred? Thanks all.

Click to expand...
I’ve heard good things of the XFX speedster SWFT 309 but it is also the longest card. Make sure your case can fit a 30.4 cm length card before buying it
 
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vwcrusher

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geofelt said:
"future proofing " is an illusion.
4 years ago, one would have said that you were "future proofed" in that there were processor upgrades available.
But, today, there are more cost/effective processors available, except that you need a new motherboard.

Games are not fully overlapped cpu/gpu
Sometimes the gpu needs to wait on the cpu to get more frames.
Games need to wait on operator input.
Sometimes, the cpu needs to wait until the latest frame is presented before proceeding.
100% utilization really is not good. It suggests that something is waiting on that resource.

Your 3700X capability can be represented by the passmark performance numbers.
It has 16 processing threads. Games rarely use more than 4-6 intensely. Multiplayer may be an exception.
When all 16 threads are fully utilized the rating is 22660. The single thread rating is 2664.

By comparison, the 5800x is 16 28433/3492. Not bad for $200.

As a plus for a simple cpu upgrade is that you will nave no motherboard issues and will not have to reinstall windows and apps.

The newer $310 R7-7700X is 16 36513/4279. A very good jump in single thread performance.

A reader more familiar with amd motherboards can suggest one for you.
You will need new DDR5 ram; AM5 is DDR5 only.

On the intel side, a $305 I5-13600K has 20 threads and a similar rating of 38442/4187
You would want a Z790 DDR4 based motherboard which will be available <$200.
That lets you reuse your DDR4 ram.
Turns out that app performance with DDR4 is similar to DDR5.
Click to expand...

Regarding heat sink, I am currently using this one (see below). Will this suffice for the 5800x? or should I consider the stock one or another third party heat sink? thanks.

 
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vwcrusher

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The Historical Fidelity said:
I’ve heard good things of the XFX speedster SWFT 309 but it is also the longest card. Make sure your case can fit a 30.4 cm length card before buying it
Click to expand...
According to the PartPicker tool, my case should be able to mount it...no? Also, would this card be preferrable over the Sapphire?


 
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The Historical Fidelity

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vwcrusher said:
According to the PartPicker tool, my case should be able to mount it...no? Also, would this card be preferrable over the Sapphire?


Click to expand...
You will have to take the drive cage out of your case to fit the XFX card.

From a cooling standpoint, yes the xfx has a bigger heatsink and 3 fans. It is also a higher tier model vs the sapphire. But the sapphire will perform just fine if that’s the one you want.
 
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The Historical Fidelity

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The Historical Fidelity

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vwcrusher said:
Yeah, thanks; I removed the cage years ago, as I am using NVME drives on the mb...so there should be plenty of room...appreciate the heads up. : )

I am assuming that my current PSU will be sufficient for this card and the upgraded CPU (5800x)?
Click to expand...
Yep shouldn’t be a problem.

Hey I found this RX 6750 XT for $329.99 with the $20 promo code on Newegg. It’s about 8% faster for the same price. Worth taking a look at.

I checked PSU requirements and it says minimum 550 watt for 6700 xt and minimum 600 watt for 6750 xt so you are fine either way. The minimum PSU watt ratings always use the highest wattage rated CPU available (Intel i9 series) into their calculations so don’t worry about the minimum wattage for the 6750 xt being close to your PSU’s rating
 
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vwcrusher

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The Historical Fidelity said:
Yep shouldn’t be a problem.

Hey I found this RX 6750 XT for $329.99 with the $20 promo code on Newegg. It’s about 8% faster for the same price. Worth taking a look at.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion, but when I look at the pricing, with the $20 discount, the price is $349...am I missing something? From comparing specs it seems that the XFX is faster...

And thanks for the power information; given the increased power requirements for the 5800X at 105w (I think), are we getting too close?
 
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