I don't get Magic -- Help me understand.

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

Okay... so I finally-finally-finally tried magic out.

I have been playing the online version.

I understand that deck construction is an art. And an interesting
strategic
cool thing to do.

Fine.

What I don't get is that it seems to me like the actual gameplay of a
Magic game is pretty easy. I mean I have only played maybe 20 games,
but it seems like you very rarely don't know what your optimal move is
in the game.

This is my complaint about the other card game I played: Game of
Thrones.

The actual gameplay is nearly automatic.

What do experienced Magic players say? Am I right and all the fun is
in deck construction? Or do I just not have enough experience to see
how deep/complicated the actual gameplay can be...

I sort of have this thought that if the game can support a frickin'
Pro Tour then there must be some significant amount of skill that
separates the professionals from the amateurs?

I figure it can't be deck construction b/c the pro-deck constructions
must get out pretty quick and anyone can copy them if they feel
like...

scott.
 

Dave

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

"Scott Veach" <scott@robotdogfilms.com> wrote in message
news:d805fd0f.0406010123.17af6a59@posting.google.com...
> Okay... so I finally-finally-finally tried magic out.

(snip)

>
> What I don't get is that it seems to me like the actual gameplay of a
> Magic game is pretty easy. I mean I have only played maybe 20 games,
> but it seems like you very rarely don't know what your optimal move is
> in the game.

(snip)

In multiplayer, you'll find that "optimal" moves are far more infrequent.
Not sure if you play multiplayer, but that's all I play, and games and
turns can get seriously involved as you try to think many turns in
advance of making a particular move - something akin to chess, but of
course, you don't know all the pieces. I played in a 3 player game that
took over 4 hours to play once, as all three decks had a similar power
level, but played very differently.

The tournament scene does seem to be (currently) dominated by similarly
fast decks. You might want to try some casual games, in formats other
than standard, to see how games can become even more complex.

- Dave
 
G

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

Hi,

the short answer to your question would probably be:

"If the two decks and the two players are of equal strength, then the game
has lot's of decisions to make."

Short explanation: In the above situation the game will probably last
longer; There will be lot's of permanents in play; Many possibilities to
take into account; In a quick environment the players have to decide to take
a mulligan or not (do I want to play with my initial 7 card hand or do I
shuffle them back into the library and start with one less card...)

There are some deck types out there which normally involves more decisions
than others. These are the so called "Control decks". Or if you are playing
a so called "Weenie Deck" (lot's of cheap creatures), the normal strategie
is to put as much creatures in the shortest amount of time in play to deal
as much damage as quick as you can. Even with such a deck it is possible to
use other strategies when you are playing against decks, which have
dangerous threads. Such a thread could be a "Wrath of God" (kills all
creatures in play). If you know you are playing against a deck with 4 "Wrath
of God" in it, you put just enough creatures in play to get a board
advantage and deal damage each turn.

I can say that the more you play magic, the more decisions you see to take
into account.

There are a lot more things to say to this topic but my english is not very
good and I don't want to stress this fact to much.

Greetings

Oldtree

"Scott Veach" <scott@robotdogfilms.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:d805fd0f.0406010123.17af6a59@posting.google.com...
> Okay... so I finally-finally-finally tried magic out.
>
> I have been playing the online version.
>
> I understand that deck construction is an art. And an interesting
> strategic
> cool thing to do.
>
> Fine.
>
> What I don't get is that it seems to me like the actual gameplay of a
> Magic game is pretty easy. I mean I have only played maybe 20 games,
> but it seems like you very rarely don't know what your optimal move is
> in the game.
>
> This is my complaint about the other card game I played: Game of
> Thrones.
>
> The actual gameplay is nearly automatic.
>
> What do experienced Magic players say? Am I right and all the fun is
> in deck construction? Or do I just not have enough experience to see
> how deep/complicated the actual gameplay can be...
>
> I sort of have this thought that if the game can support a frickin'
> Pro Tour then there must be some significant amount of skill that
> separates the professionals from the amateurs?
>
> I figure it can't be deck construction b/c the pro-deck constructions
> must get out pretty quick and anyone can copy them if they feel
> like...
>
> scott.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

Scott Veach <scott@robotdogfilms.com> sent:
> Okay... so I finally-finally-finally tried magic out.

> I have been playing the online version.

I've never even seen the online version. I hear it's quite similar to
the paper version, though.

> I understand that deck construction is an art. And an interesting
> strategic cool thing to do.

> Fine.

> What I don't get is that it seems to me like the actual gameplay of a
> Magic game is pretty easy. I mean I have only played maybe 20 games,
> but it seems like you very rarely don't know what your optimal move is
> in the game.

Well, your optimal move often depends on what your opponent has in hand.
Which you usually don't know. Do they have a creature with Haste waiting?
Are they likely to play Wrath of God soon? Was that card they just
played the real threat that needs to be countered, or is it bait?

> This is my complaint about the other card game I played: Game of
> Thrones.

> The actual gameplay is nearly automatic.

> What do experienced Magic players say? Am I right and all the fun is
> in deck construction? Or do I just not have enough experience to see
> how deep/complicated the actual gameplay can be...

The gameplay can become incredibly complex. At the moment, a lot of
the decks are very fast and aggressive, and many constructed deck games
last only 5 or 6 turns. These games probably don't show as much
complexity as games with delicate balances of control and pressure.

> I sort of have this thought that if the game can support a frickin'
> Pro Tour then there must be some significant amount of skill that
> separates the professionals from the amateurs?

> I figure it can't be deck construction b/c the pro-deck constructions
> must get out pretty quick and anyone can copy them if they feel
> like...

Give it a go - proxy up some older decks, find some opponents, and see
how they play. I've no idea if it's easy to find deck listings for
older decks these days, maybe search for unique names like
ErhnamGeddon, NecroSliver and so on. See if you can find control decks
as well as beatsticks.. I'm sure someone else can point out places to
find tournament deck listings from past tournaments.

--
-- zoe
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

Scott Veach wrote:

>
> What I don't get is that it seems to me like the actual gameplay of a
> Magic game is pretty easy. I mean I have only played maybe 20 games,
> but it seems like you very rarely don't know what your optimal move is
> in the game.

I've seen ability to decipher optimal moves separate the okay
players from the really good ones often.
I'm better at playing than constructing and have beaten what
were considered better built decks by better play of my
non-optimal decks.

> What do experienced Magic players say? Am I right and all the fun is
> in deck construction? Or do I just not have enough experience to see
> how deep/complicated the actual gameplay can be...

I think you are missing some of it.
But see below also. ;)

> I sort of have this thought that if the game can support a frickin'
> Pro Tour then there must be some significant amount of skill that
> separates the professionals from the amateurs?
>
> I figure it can't be deck construction b/c the pro-deck constructions
> must get out pretty quick and anyone can copy them if they feel
> like...

Having a good deck is vital for getting consistent wins or getting
into the high ranks. It's one of my biggest complaints. Games seem
to go to the player who buys specific cards to build a "perfect"
deck rather than to the players who build the best they can from
what they have.

That said, if you and I both copy a pro-deck exactly and play
each other, two factors will rapidly show:

A) That randomness IS a factor in this game.
Even 2 out of 3 can result in a "better" deck and/or "better"
player losing just by the luck of the draw.

B) Play skill IS important. Understanding what the deck can do
is different than understanding what your hand can do.
Understanding how your deck will interact with your opponents
is important. Deciphering what your opponent is trying for
is important. Knowing when to conserve a resource is important.
(#1 error I see in newer players. Older players are better at it then
I am. Etc.)
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

Have you ever bowled before? Bowling is really really easy. I'm not sure
why people love it so much.

Or folks who play Euchre.

Or golf.

Or poker.

Really, yeah, a lot of times there are clear moves, but I still have games
where 1 turn later I realize I fouled up. And there are many games where
I'm looking at two options that could work, but I need to really think deep
about which one will have the greatest effect.

So, as you learn, it gets easier, but then you can step up the challenges,
play more difficult decks or stronger opponents, so it's always interesting.

And, yeah, deckbuilding for me is half the fun.
Peter



"Scott Veach" <scott@robotdogfilms.com> wrote in message
news:d805fd0f.0406010123.17af6a59@posting.google.com...
> Okay... so I finally-finally-finally tried magic out.
>
> I have been playing the online version.
>
> I understand that deck construction is an art. And an interesting
> strategic
> cool thing to do.
>
> Fine.
>
> What I don't get is that it seems to me like the actual gameplay of a
> Magic game is pretty easy. I mean I have only played maybe 20 games,
> but it seems like you very rarely don't know what your optimal move is
> in the game.
>
> This is my complaint about the other card game I played: Game of
> Thrones.
>
> The actual gameplay is nearly automatic.
>
> What do experienced Magic players say? Am I right and all the fun is
> in deck construction? Or do I just not have enough experience to see
> how deep/complicated the actual gameplay can be...
>
> I sort of have this thought that if the game can support a frickin'
> Pro Tour then there must be some significant amount of skill that
> separates the professionals from the amateurs?
>
> I figure it can't be deck construction b/c the pro-deck constructions
> must get out pretty quick and anyone can copy them if they feel
> like...
>
> scott.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

yeah i always like the hold a basic land in your hand and keep two lands
untapped trick it makes your opponent think more before they play a
card.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

J H wrote:

> yeah i always like the hold a basic land in your hand and keep two lands
> untapped trick it makes your opponent think more before they play a
> card.

I've started doing that a lot with white.
Strange that I've haven't with blue. ;(
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

i could be playing green and my opponent blue and that trick works. its
like dude i'm playing green do you think i'm going to counter that or
something lol in response giant growth bam!
 
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