I have been stumped..

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

I have a friend who i taught to play MTG.. Most of her cards are older
cards. I have only been playing for a couple of years so when she ask me
what "PHASING" meant I wasn't sure. I learned mostly on my own by
reading and playing with my husband. The rulebook that I have (which I
printed off the web) does not have it in it.
Long story short ..... Will someone please help me explain it to her?
Thanks for your time. This is a great group. I know that when I have a
question about MTG I can always count on finding it here.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Barbara Gordon <Batgirl2003@webtv.net> wrote:
>I have a friend who i taught to play MTG.. Most of her cards are older
>cards. I have only been playing for a couple of years so when she ask me
>what "PHASING" meant I wasn't sure. I learned mostly on my own by
>reading and playing with my husband. The rulebook that I have (which I
>printed off the web) does not have it in it.

'Kay. First off: the one currently on the web, findable in the bottom left-
hand corner of the Wizards Magic page ( www.wizards.com/magic ) or directly
at http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=magic/rules/tourneyplayer , has the
rules for phasing in it (as well as all the other old mechanics; it does not
have Gotcha in it though ... yet.

>Long story short ..... Will someone please help me explain it to her?
>Thanks for your time. This is a great group. I know that when I have a
>question about MTG I can always count on finding it here.

Very simple version: it Goes Away on her untap step, before she untaps. On
her next untap step, it Comes Back Again, also before she untaps. This
repeats - away, then back - on her turns. Phasing out (the Goes Away) triggers
anything that would trigger off it leaving play - but it's not going to the
graveyard, it is going to the "phased out zone", so it won't trigger "when
this goes to a graveyard from play" things.
Phasing in (the Comes Back Again), for complex reasons, does NOT trigger
stuff that would trigger when something comes into play. Once it's back, it
remembers whatver happened to it before while it was in play - its counters
are still there, any enchantments on it or Equipment attached to it leaves and
comes back with it, it's not "sick" so it can attack or use Tap-cost activated
abilities, etc. About the only things that will notice it DID come back are
Echo, and Fungus Elemental, again for complex reasons.

So, simple summary: it's only there on every OTHER one of her, and your, turns.

For the exact rules, which are slightly confusing alas, look in the rulebook
referred to above, sections 217.8, 302.1, and mainly 502.15 .

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Oh no! It's Barbara Gordon!
> I have a friend who i taught to play MTG.. Most of her cards are older
> cards. I have only been playing for a couple of years so when she ask me
> what "PHASING" meant I wasn't sure. I learned mostly on my own by
> reading and playing with my husband. The rulebook that I have (which I
> printed off the web) does not have it in it.
> Long story short ..... Will someone please help me explain it to her?
> Thanks for your time. This is a great group. I know that when I have a
> question about MTG I can always count on finding it here.

Well, below you'll see what the comprehensive rulebook has to say about
it. To make a long story short, permanents with Phasing leave play and
go to a special zone called the Phased Out zone at the beginning of your
untap step; at the same time, any phased out permanents you control
phase back in. As a result, things with phasing are only there every
other turn.

These days these creatures would just remove themselves from the game
and return themselves, but there are a number of differences between
phasing out and being removed from the game. For one thing, phased out
permanents "remember" things that previously happened to them, and keep
enchantments and counters. They do not come into play as new permanents.
This is different from EVERY other type of zone change in the game,
whether it's returning a creature to your hand, destroying it, or
whatever.

Anyhow, here's the full rules for phasing, and for the phased out zone.
As you'll see, it's relatively complicated as keyword abilities go.
That's why WotC has pretty much vowed never to bring it back 🙂.

217.8. Phased-Out

217.8a Permanents that phase out are placed in the phased-out zone. (See
rule 502.15, "Phasing.")

217.8b Face-up objects in the phased-out zone may be examined by either
player at any time. Face-down objects in the phased-out zone are covered
by the rules for face-down creatures. (See rule 502.26, "Morph," and
rule 504, "Face-Down Spells and Permanents.")

217.8c Phased-out objects are not in play, so they do not count as
tapped or untapped, nor are they controlled by anyone. However, an
object in this zone "remembers" the state of the permanent as it phased
out and returns to play in the same state as when it left. (See rule
502.15, "Phasing.") This is an exception to rule 217.1c.

217.8d Tokens in the phased-out zone cease to exist. This is a state-
based effect (see rule 420, "State-Based Effects"). Any phased-out local
enchantments or Equipment that were attached to those tokens remain
phased out for the rest of the game.


502.15. Phasing

502.15a Phasing is a static ability that modifies the rules of the untap
step.

502.15b During each player's untap step, before the active player untaps
his or her permanents, all permanents with phasing the player controls
phase out. Simultaneously, all objects that had phased out under that
player's control phase in. (See rule 217.8, "Phased-Out," and rule
302.1.)

502.15c If an effect causes a player to skip his or her untap step, the
phasing event simply doesn't occur that turn.

502.15d Permanents phasing in don't trigger any comes-into-play
abilities, and effects that modify how a permanent comes into play are
ignored. Abilities and effects that specifically mention phasing can
modify or trigger on this event, however. Permanents phasing out trigger
leaves-play abilities as usual. (Because no player receives priority
during the untap step, any abilities triggering off of the phasing event
won't go onto the stack until the upkeep step begins.)

502.15e When a permanent phases out, all damage dealt to it is removed.

502.15f A card that returns to play from the phased-out zone is
considered the same permanent it was when it left. This is an exception
to rule 217.1c, which stipulates that a permanent "forgets" its previous
existence when it changes zones.

502.15g Effects with limited duration and delayed triggered abilities
that specifically reference a permanent will be unable to further affect
that permanent if it phases out. However, other effects that reference
the permanent (including effects with unlimited duration) can affect the
permanent when it returns to play.
Example: A creature is affected by Giant Growth and then phases out
during the same turn. If the creature phases back in somehow before the
turn is over, it won't get the +3/+3 bonus from the Giant Growth because
its effect has a limited duration.

502.15h Phased-out cards "remember" their past histories and will return
to play in the same state. They "remember" any counters they had on
them, any choices made when they first came into play, and whether they
were tapped or untapped when they left play. They also "remember" who
controlled them when they phased out, although they may phase in under
the control of a different player if a control effect with limited
duration has expired.
Example: Diseased Vermin reads, in part, "At the beginning of your
upkeep, Diseased Vermin deals X damage to target opponent previously
dealt damage by it, where X is the number of infection counters on it."
If Diseased Vermin phases out, it "remembers" how many counters it has
and also which opponents it has previously damaged. When it phases back
in, it will still be able to target those opponents with its upkeep-
triggered ability.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

In article <slrncpvhp5.ugv.dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com>, David DeLaney
<dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote:

> Phasing in (the Comes Back Again), for complex reasons, does NOT trigger
> stuff that would trigger when something comes into play.

I have to ask... what are the complex reasons? I've always wondered
why leaves-play effects happen but not enters-play effects.


DM
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 04:46:37 GMT, DM <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>David DeLaney <dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote:
>> Phasing in (the Comes Back Again), for complex reasons, does NOT trigger
>> stuff that would trigger when something comes into play.
>
>I have to ask... what are the complex reasons? I've always wondered
>why leaves-play effects happen but not enters-play effects.

Essentially because it would Severely Break a great many cards, making their
comes-into-play triggered abilities repeatable for the low low price of
putting a Cloak of Invisibility on it; it also would Break other things -
"comes into play with three +1/+1 counters on it" for example, or Clone
getting to pick a new creature to "be" every time it reappeared.

In contrast, there are remarkably few pure "leaves play" triggered abilities
- there are actually more now than there ever were back when phasing was in
Type II, and many of those are from the new Nightmare cycle. Phasing out is
NOT going to a graveyard, so doesn't trigger any 'when this goes to a
graveyard from play' abilities ... and the pure "leaves play" abilities back
then were about half disadvantageous.

A game balance issue more than anything else, in other words ... but also if
you want it to remember everything that happened when it was previously in
play, unlike any other method of appearing in play, AND want it to not be
"sick" either, having it make believe it never left isn't a bad paradigm to
use. "You didn't see me be absent for two turns. You are very sleepy. Get me
a beer, I'm using Ashnod's Coupon.".

(The details are complex anyway - but, in general, if you keep in mind that
phasing in and out is an exception to ANY of the usual rules for entering or
leaving play, you'll get the right answer about 90% of the time... about the
only thing it DOES do the same is trigger pure "leaves play" abilities.)

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Oh no! It's David DeLaney!
> On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 04:46:37 GMT, DM <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >David DeLaney <dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote:
> >> Phasing in (the Comes Back Again), for complex reasons, does NOT trigger
> >> stuff that would trigger when something comes into play.
> >
> >I have to ask... what are the complex reasons? I've always wondered
> >why leaves-play effects happen but not enters-play effects.
>
> Essentially because it would Severely Break a great many cards, making their
> comes-into-play triggered abilities repeatable for the low low price of
> putting a Cloak of Invisibility on it; it also would Break other things -
> "comes into play with three +1/+1 counters on it" for example, or Clone
> getting to pick a new creature to "be" every time it reappeared.

Hmm... there are lots of other ways to put things into play without
paying their mana cost. This argument is nowhere near as convincing as
it was in 1996, and it wasn't all that convincing then.

Does the same thinking apply to Yet Another Aether Vortex?

(By the way, I notice that Phasing is back in Unhinged, along with
Banding, Cumulative Upkeep, Rampage, a card that mentions snow-covered
lands....)
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Barbara Gordon wrote:

> I have a friend who i taught to play MTG.. Most of her cards are older
> cards. I have only been playing for a couple of years so when she ask me
> what "PHASING" meant I wasn't sure.

No one is, honey, no one is.


--
Christopher Mattern

"Which one you figure tracked us?"
"The ugly one, sir."
"...Could you be more specific?"
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Jeff Heikkinen wrote:

>
> (By the way, I notice that Phasing is back in Unhinged, along with
> Banding, Cumulative Upkeep, Rampage, a card that mentions snow-covered
> lands....)

Hmph. If they had "Bands with other", I'd be impressed. But I guess
there's limits even in Unhinged...
--
Christopher Mattern

"Which one you figure tracked us?"
"The ugly one, sir."
"...Could you be more specific?"
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Chris Mattern <matternc@comcast.net> writes:
> Jeff Heikkinen wrote:
>> (By the way, I notice that Phasing is back in Unhinged, along with
>> Banding, Cumulative Upkeep, Rampage, a card that mentions snow-covered
>> lands....)
>
> Hmph. If they had "Bands with other", I'd be impressed. But I guess
> there's limits even in Unhinged...

No, there's actually not that limit, at least:

,----[ Unhinged ]
| Old Fogey
| {G}{G}
| Summon Dinosaur
| 7/7
| Phasing, cumulative upkeep 1, echo, fading 3, bands with other
| Dinosaurs, protection from Homarids, snow-covered plainswalk,
| flanking, rampage 2
`----

--
Peter C.
"Because IP only guarantees best effort delivery, loss of a carrier
can be tolerated." -- RFC 1149, "A Standard for the Transmission of IP
Datagrams on Avian Carriers"
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Chris Mattern <matternc@comcast.net> wrote:

> Jeff Heikkinen wrote:
>
> >
> > (By the way, I notice that Phasing is back in Unhinged, along with
> > Banding, Cumulative Upkeep, Rampage, a card that mentions snow-covered
> > lands....)
>
> Hmph. If they had "Bands with other", I'd be impressed. But I guess
> there's limits even in Unhinged...

Two words: Old Fogey
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Peter Cooper Jr. wrote:

> Chris Mattern <matternc@comcast.net> writes:
>> Jeff Heikkinen wrote:
>>> (By the way, I notice that Phasing is back in Unhinged, along with
>>> Banding, Cumulative Upkeep, Rampage, a card that mentions snow-covered
>>> lands....)
>>
>> Hmph. If they had "Bands with other", I'd be impressed. But I guess
>> there's limits even in Unhinged...
>
> No, there's actually not that limit, at least:
>
> ,----[ Unhinged ]
> | Old Fogey
> | {G}{G}
> | Summon Dinosaur
> | 7/7
> | Phasing, cumulative upkeep 1, echo, fading 3, bands with other
> | Dinosaurs, protection from Homarids, snow-covered plainswalk,
> | flanking, rampage 2
> `----
>
I'll be a monkey's uncle. I particularly like the protection from
Homarids, although I actually liked to make Thallid decks, m'self.
--
Christopher Mattern

"Which one you figure tracked us?"
"The ugly one, sir."
"...Could you be more specific?"
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Chris Mattern <matternc@comcast.net> wrote:
>Jeff Heikkinen wrote:
>> (By the way, I notice that Phasing is back in Unhinged, along with
>> Banding, Cumulative Upkeep, Rampage, a card that mentions snow-covered
>> lands....)
>
>Hmph. If they had "Bands with other", I'd be impressed. But I guess
>there's limits even in Unhinged...

Your wish is our command:

Old Fogey GG Summon Dinosaur
7/7 Phasing, cumulative upkeep 1, echo, fading 3, bands with other Dinosaurs,
protection from Homarids, snow-covered plainswalk, flanking, rampage 2

Greater Morphling 6UU Creature - Shapeshifter
5/5 2: ~ gains your choice of banding, bushido 1, double strike, fear, flying,
first strike, haste, landwalk of your choice, protection from a color of your
choice, provoke, rampage 1, shadow, or trample until end of turn. / 2: ~
becomes the colors of your choice until end of turn. / 2: ~'s type becomes the
creature type of your choice until end of turn. / 2: ~'s expansion symbol
becomes the symbol of your choice until end of turn. / 2: ~'s artist becomes
the artist of your choice until end of turn. / 2: ~ gets +2/-2 or -2/+2 until
end of turn. / 2: Untap ~.

Dave "be CAREFUL what you wish for, boys 'n' girls" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
ettp://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

David DeLaney (dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com) wrote:

: Your wish is our command:

: Old Fogey GG Summon Dinosaur
: 7/7 Phasing, cumulative upkeep 1, echo, fading 3, bands with other Dinosaurs,
: protection from Homarids, snow-covered plainswalk, flanking, rampage 2

Can I please wish that each one comes into play with its own built-in
Eon Hub? :)


Keith