I hope it is not CPU that is dead...

[Astralv]

Hey there
I have Intel 4770K processor, Asus Z87-Pro motherboard, Asus AMD R9 270X GPU, 2X 4 GB memory- 2014 build, no issues.

The computer would not POST. It was working this morning and turned off by pressing power button, and it never came back on. When powering on, fans running and Motherboard leds are blinking red. According to the manual, the Led will light up and stay on until the problem is fixed. I have DRAM led blinking, CPU LED blinking and VGA LED blinking red. I checked the codes (numbers on small display on the motherboard). It gives many numbers but all of them just initiation of different tasks, no actual error codes. Just the red leds blinking. The fans on graphic card start and stop.

I have tried to take one memory out, both memory out and replacing it with working memory from another computer. With single old 4 Gb memory it goes in to restart loop. When using 4 Gb or 8 Gb of tested working Corsair memory, it again goes in to restart loop. It starts testing, CPU red light goes on and off, Memory led goes red on and off, CPU red again- Memory red again, then shuts down and self restarts. Leds take turn to become red for a second- CPU, then memory, then CPU, then memory, then restart.

I did take the GPU out to make everything simple, so now I do not have a red Led light at VGA led.

I hope that it is not a CPU dead, as I paid $349 for that CPU. And I really need my computer right now. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

 

[Antinaxtos]

Does the PSU fan spin?

 

[Astralv]

I am not near the computer right now and I can not answer this question because the PSU mounted fan down, so I dont remember if it spins. But all fans connected to motherboard and CPU fan spin.

Is there a way to test it to tell if it is the motherboard that is dead or the CPU? The numbers on the display flashing, which means- the motherboard is able to perform some processes. Fans sniping so the electricity goes through it... It is likely not a memory, not graphic card, so it leaves CPU or motherboard... How common is it for CPU to stop working?

I do have another Haswell build with identical motherboard, so in theory I could take both CPUs out and test this CPU on my other build, but this would not be preferred plan as removing CPUs is not a good idea, one pin can get bent and then I will have two dysfunctional systems... There got to be better way to find out what went wrong.

 

[veladem]

PCPartPicker specs of the non working build?

Thanks.

 

[Eximo]

Seems like the system is getting at least 12V. 5V could still be messed up. This I would check with a cheap voltmeter from your local hardware or auto parts store (handy to have around anyway)

Hard to tell with modern computers because they almost exclusively run on 12V these days. Except the BIOS usually.

CPU could still be dead. You can always try re-seating it as that is better then swapping the possibly bad CPU into another system.
Thermal expansion rates differ between components, your heatsink could have caused a slight movement on every heating and cooling cycle. Or it needs to be loosened. A heavy CPU cooler and too much mounting force can warp motherboards (usually get ram issues as a first sign though).

 

[Astralv]

I have Intel 4770K processor, Asus Z87-Pro motherboard, Asus AMD R9 270X GPU, 2X 4 GB memory- 2014 build, no issues.

The system was stable all this time. (December 2014 build). Uses generic cooler fan that came with CPU.

 

[Eximo]

Well the Intel stock cooler is unlikely to hurt it, but a little surprising to see on a K class build.

 

[Astralv]

You mean- surprising somebody using K without overclocking? It had slightly higher clock speed... In my mind stock fan should work for basic operations, otherwise they would not ship it with the fan. I don't play games, I do music production, so no overheating is expected.

My son, on another hand, was playing game at a time of failure- Minecraft. Not really demanding game. He was playing for like 20 minutes, my boyfriend wanted him to get off the computer and get ready for school so he turned the power off by pressing the power button... My child said something about computer not working but I did not pay attention. By the time I came home from work and turned it on- it would not POST.

Question: how do you test power supply and motherboard? I used 850W Solid Gear PSU, which is unexpansive PSU. It was worki9ng great, but I would believe- it would crash first before the CPU. Can the hard shut down make PSU give up? I do have the lights...

So where do I test for the PSU? Should I unplug it from the motherboard and test the power cables? What else I can test?

Buy the new motherboard? Or new power supply and just try and see if it works?

 

[Astralv]

Any thoughts on how to fix it? What do I test or replace?

Thank you.

 

[Eximo]

I did give one suggestion for the test involving a voltmeter. Without a POST or BIOS you have no options for testing a power supply other then externally.

Yes, buying a new power supply is an option. Solid Gear doesn't sound familiar and the high rating is probably false or inaccurate.

 

[Astralv]

Sorry, I accidentally hit the "best solution" button in my e-mail. I remember you mentioning voltmeter, this is why I was asking how to test it. My boyfriend has voltmeter and knows how to use it, but we don't know what to measure. Do we unplug the cables from the motherboard and measure them? Do we measure all cables or just the once going to the motherboard? What reading are we looking for? Is it supposed to show 12 V and 5 V? It is 750, by the way.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7906004&CatId=11994

Don't think it is significant... During the year of using this computer, I noted- it would often play sound of something connecting and disconnecting to the computer. You know, that "tam tam tam" sound when you unplug USB stick. I thought it was USB cable from the computer case to motherboard, so I touched them and pushed them in better and I think it stop, but occasionally it would start doin it again, I I was assuming these were bad USB cables connecting the case to motherboard, so I was not bothering with fixing it. And the other day my son told me- the D drive disappeared. I checked- the D drive (note- not C but D drive) was not showing up under "This PC". I restarted and it was there like always. Can it be related to the power supply acting out? Thank you.

 

[Astralv]

The fan on the power supply is spinning.

I unplugged the 24 pins from the motherboard. And how do I test it? There is no marking or labels of what to test with what. Help!

 

[Astralv]

And it looks like the PSU is working ok. Now we down to motherboard or CPU.

You saying it is not a good idea to take the CPUs out and test it in the another build? I would not be looking forward to doing it. But I don't know what next step to take. Thank you.

 

[Eximo]

The pinout for the ATX standard is quite easy to locate here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATX

Turn on the power supply by shorting pin 16 to 17. Basically checking 12V +/- and 5V+/- 5VSB + and 3.3V for being anywhere close to the right numbers. Not a definitive test with no load though. Power supplies can fail in ways that allow them to produce voltages, but when loaded produce bad ripples or high or low voltages.

Sounds like more motherboard or power issues if devices were not staying consistent. Any one of the components in the system could have a leak to ground that is driving voltage low, and the motherboard consists of many discrete parts that could have failed.

Unless you want to swap the CPUs, I think you are out of testing options. Only confirmation for a CPU is a known good motherboard to POST with it, and the only test for a motherboard is to have known good CPU to POST with it.

 

[Astralv]

The pinout for the ATX standard is quite easy to locate here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATX

Turn on the power supply by shorting pin 16 to 17. Basically checking 12V +/- and 5V+/- 5VSB + and 3.3V for being anywhere close to the right numbers. Not a definitive test with no load though. Power supplies can fail in ways that allow them to produce voltages, but when loaded produce bad ripples or high or low voltages.

Sounds like more motherboard or power issues if devices were not staying consistent. Any one of the components in the system could have a leak to ground that is driving voltage low, and the motherboard consists of many discrete parts that could have failed.

Unless you want to swap the CPUs, I think you are out of testing options. Only confirmation for a CPU is a known good motherboard to POST with it, and the only test for a motherboard is to have known good CPU to POST with it.

Thank you for your reply. I tested the PSU by leaving it connected to the motherboard and testing one Molex cable. It gave me 12V and 5 V readings, but it is just one cable. Not sure how to test the cables with SSD/HDD black plastic connectors as there is no place to place the probes. I was recommended to test the broken build with working PSU from another computer.

I would really not looking forward to drag my good (main) computer from out of the desk, unplug all monitors, take out power supply, disconnect it from motherboard of working build to test, but I may have to do it despite of inconvenience.

Would you recommend to swap the CPUs? They are identical Haswell 4770K CPUs, but I am not very comfortable to remove the CPU fans and take out the processors- with those sensitive pins- anything can happen. I can not afford to rebuild 2 computers. I can not afford to rebuild any computers. The broken build cost me $1500 a while ago. I have to fix it some how. I looked on line- 4770K are not available any more and cost between $500 and $700 on amazon.

The question is, is it safe to remove CPUs and swap them? Do I need thermal paste if I remove the CPU fan? I did not use any thermal paste when I built it (my understanding was that it was pre-applied and not needed), but now that the fan was in use for at least 18 months on broken build and 2 years on good build- would I need to apply new thermal paste?

Something is dead in the water. I don't understand why the display on the motherboard dos not give any error codes. It just has numbers running in circle, but none of the numbers have error letter. I have red led lights flashing but they supposed to stay red until the problem is solved. I remember on my orher build I had hard drive issue and the led light was staying red constantly. My lights now just flashing at different speed- CPU, Memory and VGA (when graphics card is connected).

 

[Eximo]

At least the power supply is likely good.

Whenever a CPU cooler is removed the old paste should be removed and replaced.

As a first step, buy yourself some thermal paste. Try taking that CPU out and giving it a visual examination. And then re-install it. It may just need to be re-seated.

If that didn't work, I would then disassemble the entire computer, remove the motherboard, and breadboard it with just CPU, Motherboard, Power Supply, keyboard, and monitor. If it worked at that point, reassemble. If it then didn't work, either the chassis has a grounding or short to ground problem, or one of the other components does. Add them back one at a time until the problem appears. That is the culprit.

If at that point it still isn't working and if nothing felt like it was getting extremely warm, I would then attempt the swap to confirm the CPU was good. If so, a $90 motherboard isn't so bad vs a $300 CPU. Also you should still be able to find i7-4790k around that are actually better and would work in a B85/H81/H87/H97/Z87/Z97 board.

 

[Astralv]

I never applied any paste- I was under the impression that it is already applied by manufacturer and if I use stock fan, it should be ok. Any specific paste I should get? (Will have to order from Newegg or Amazon).

I am looking at the motherboard and I don't see anything wrong with it.

Strange thing is... when I have 2 Ripjaw memory sticks installed, the system stays on, the numbers on motherboard display running in circles, but the system does not shut down. If I install only one memory stick, it goes in to restart loop- it would restart over and over and over again. The same happens if I use the memory from another working computer. The red led lights light up one at a time- Memory, CPU, Memory, and shut down. Then restart.

If I take the graphics card, will it be able to boot (well- if it was not broken) with the VGA from motherboard? (without changing any settings in BIOS- can not get to the BIOS). I feel like I need to unplug my graphics card as all this loop restarting can not be good for it. Also- strange thing- the fans on graphic card kind of jerk but do not spin... Also I do not have red led light for VGA as I had at first.

 

[Eximo]

I can only provide the same information so many times. Basic troubleshooting would have you remove every thing that isn't necessary for the computer to be tested.

Only have the motherboard, CPU, power supply, keyboard, and monitor. Yes the graphics on the CPU will be the default when no GPU is installed.

If any of your components are bad, you can tell by plugging them in one at a time.

 

[Astralv]

Except motherboard and CPU... and, perhaps, the memory slots (not the sticks). When you say, one at a time, you mean motherboard, then re-seating the processor? Would it post without the memory? Not sure what it does without memory right now- the- probably not much other than fans. When I insert one memory stick, it goes in to restart loop, and I am back where I started. At this point- is it a good idea to try to swap the CPU with another computer, or should I randomly buy another motherboard and see if that would solve it? Would it help to contact Asus? I can tell them that motherboard is failed- will they agree based on the symptoms, or will they say- it must be something else?

Sorry if I am asking the same thing over and over. I will get to it when I get home. I work full time, have a child and a band, this is very frustrating as I dont have time to unplug things. My living room is such a mass now because I have all the parts out. Not looking forward to taking my other computer out and start swapping CPUs. Also- it may bring the answer for CPU... Would you involve healthy build in to this? Thanks.

 

[Eximo]

No a system will not POST without memory, but it should tell you the memory is missing either through the LCD or with a beep code. This usually means the CPU and motherboard are working.

Since you get different results with a single stick or multiple, and have tried other ram with no change in behavior (I think), I still say to attempt to re-seat the CPU. That is where the memory controller is on a Haswell chip.

Heck if you haven't tried resetting the BIOS, I would give that a try as well.

If you don't want to just throw new parts at it you are going to have to take the time to isolate the problem.

Only after you have tried everything should you consider swapping parts from the working machine.

Personally I would confirm the motherboard doesn't work before involving warranty. You could waste a lot of time waiting for an RMA, and if the board is fine, they will just send it back to you.

It is that or take it to a computer repair shop.

 

[Astralv]

I started another thread under the CPUs (asking about swaping and thermal paste), and the folks there saying- it is not likely the CPU problem...

I spoke with Asus (motherboard division). The technician told me to take out CMOS battery and see what happens and then if it does not help- they will take it for repair. After I took the CMOS out and put it back, nothing changed, except now all sticks of memory act the same- no loop restart- computer stays ON, numbers running, leds flashing, no video. One of the numbers that is flashing is 58, which reads as "CPU self test failed or possible CPU cache error" in the manual, there few other CPU related numbers flashing that I can not read- too fast, but no number is staying long enough.

I will be calling around today looking for computer shop that has working CPU or MoBo with the same specs to test my parts. The Asus says- it will take them about a week for turn around, but I am not so sure- likely would take couple of weeks.

I could order another motherboard and just absorb the expanse if it ends up acting the same way with the new MoBo- would be near the same as paying computer shop for testing.

I would re-seat the CPU, but I would need a thermal paste, right? Will order it today just in case.

How do you reset the BIOS? I dont have access to the BIOS as it does not work- do you mean- take the bettery out? Yeah, that only made all memory act the same, no shut down/restart loop- just running numbers and fans.

 

[Astralv]

Wow! It POST!!!!

I took it out of the case and it posted. Asking for a boot device now. "Bench it works!" I was resisting to take it out of the case but when I did- it works! Soo exciting.

So what does it mean? Does it mean- the case shorts it some how? Do I need a new case? I also had a fan connected before I took it out of the case...

Sorry if you see this post in more than one thread- I had few threads asking different questions and now updating everybody as it is really encouraging news. Thank you.

 

[Astralv]

One more thing... there is a connector that connects the case power button to the motherboard- the power switch. Can it be an issue? That would make sense as the computer malfunctioned when the power was pressed, so if this is the power connector pins on the motherboard... Now I have it disconnected and powering it by pressing the power button on the motherboard. Does it makes any sense?

 

[Astralv]

I know now exactly what is wrong. It is a place where the wires from the power button on the case connect to the motherboard. Now I have to figure out if it is the case wires shortage or if it is a shortage on the motherboard pins. I have a feeling that these are the pins on the motherboard, not the wires on the case. How would I test it? Thank you.

 

[Eximo]

Front panel connectors and switches are quite straight forward, not much can go wrong. However a leakage to ground or a short is a possibility.

So all the power switch does is actually short pin 16 to a ground. To test it you simply need a continuity tester. (all simple multimeters have one, it has a diode symbol with a noise symbol.) It will beep when there is a low resistance path. The reading in Ohms should be nearly zero, if it is not, then something is wrong.

Not going to be much other advice I can give on that. Might be a grounding problem in the case, though not sure how that would have happened.