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[SOLVED] I made a huge mistake buying this build. Bottleneck

olivier.corderius

Prominent
Oct 21, 2018
58
0
530
0
Main specs:
MSI A320M PRO-VH PLUS
GTX 1050Ti
Ryzen 5 2600
8GB DDR4 2666MHz

I play on 1080p 75Hz.

A bit longer than one year ago I made a pc build which I was really excited about.
Back then I did not have much knowledge about computers in general, so I didn't buy an SSD with it, which already sucked.
My games never rendered good. For example, I love playing games like Witcher 3, but pretty much everywhere where I go in the game I have to stand still for a few minutes to render everything in the area, at first I blamed this on my HDD, but when I see people play on their HDD, everything seems to run fine.

But, to the point, I tried selling my computer on the local 'eBay' and someone send me a message, which said:
"I do not have any interest in your computer, but was wondering if you were aware of the fact it has a huge bottleneck.
I asked him what he was talking about and he told me about my CPU which is way better than my GPU, I checked it on a bottleneck calculator and it said 100%.

That's pretty much the story, which brings me to the question,

How do I fix this bottleneck?
-
Will upgrading my system fix this problem? I personally was thinking about reusing my CPU and buy me a GTX 1660 Super with a new SSD and RAM.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Ambassador
A bottleneck is something that slows down the flow of data. It's that simple. A cpu cannot be a bottleneck just based on that alone as it's what sets the flow of data to begin with. It's output is simply just what it is. A gpu can be a bottleneck if the settings/resolution are cranked so high that the fps output from the gpu is curtailed to the point of unplayability.

But things change. There's no absolute like a calculator would have you believe. There's a massive difference in game code between CSGO and BF1 and that will affect the fps output from the cpu and the fps output from the gpu. 2 different games, 2 different results. So how a calculator can say 1 determination is asinine.

I7 3770k, day before the i7 4770k dropped and Windows put me at 7.9 out of 8.0, had beautiful pc and speeds, as good as it got. Day after the i7 4770k released, Windows said now 5.9 out of 8.0 because my cpu was too slow and needed upgrade. Obsolete after only 2 days?

Be careful with what some people or things say, they do not take anything into consideration.

You have an A320 mobo, so are stuck at 2nd Gen cpus and stock settings. No OC. 2666MHz ram is decent, but you'll be running slower vrs 3200MHz ram. The 1050ti is decent for 1080p med-high in most, ultra in some and still get over 60fps.

But software can hurt while rendering. Depending on the settings. OBS is more cpu bound and there's plenty online tweeks for setting it up to be minimally invasive but maximize render. Nvenc is minimally invasive to the gpu with next to nothing on the cpu. So if the cpu isn't pushed, but the gpu is, then use obs, but if the cpu is pushed and gpu isn't then use nvenc.

First try to tailor what you have, to fit your wants. Only if that fails then change what you have to fit the need.

A stronger gpu will go a long way to helping with nvenc in more situations. A better motherboard/ram and OC will go a long way to freeing up the cpu for obs.
 

Iniaskle

Prominent
Mar 5, 2019
287
25
720
4
Main specs:
MSI A320M PRO-VH PLUS
GTX 1050Ti
Ryzen 5 2600
8GB DDR4 2666MHz

I play on 1080p 75Hz.

A bit longer than one year ago I made a pc build which I was really excited about.
Back then I did not have much knowledge about computers in general, so I didn't buy an SSD with it, which already sucked.
My games never rendered good. For example, I love playing games like Witcher 3, but pretty much everywhere where I go in the game I have to stand still for a few minutes to render everything in the area, at first I blamed this on my HDD, but when I see people play on their HDD, everything seems to run fine.

But, to the point, I tried selling my computer on the local 'eBay' and someone send me a message, which said:
"I do not have any interest in your computer, but was wondering if you were aware of the fact it has a huge bottleneck.
I asked him what he was talking about and he told me about my CPU which is way better than my GPU, I checked it on a bottleneck calculator and it said 100%.

That's pretty much the story, which brings me to the question,

How do I fix this bottleneck?
-
Will upgrading my system fix this problem? I personally was thinking about reusing my CPU and buy me a GTX 1660 Super with a new SSD and RAM.
You cant fix a bottleneck only by changing resolutions but that's not really a solution. You can downgrade your CPU (I do not recommend that). Or you can upgrade your GPU to an RX 5600 xt or gtx 1660 or super. That would be a pretty nice combo. But I dont think a 100% bottleneck is right, it might be a small bottleneck. Are you sure that the problem is a bottleneck?
 

olivier.corderius

Prominent
Oct 21, 2018
58
0
530
0
You cant fix a bottleneck only by changing resolutions but that's not really a solution. You can downgrade your CPU (I do not recommend that). Or you can upgrade your GPU to an RX 5600 xt or gtx 1660 or super. That would be a pretty nice combo. But I dont think a 100% bottleneck is right, it might be a small bottleneck. Are you sure that the problem is a bottleneck?
https://gyazo.com/7387507caad68a778897b87cf6bc48fa here is the bottleneck calculator, ofcourse im not sure if its trustable, but still.
 
^ If I am reading right there are a couple of issues going on here.

Trying to play a super detailed AAA title on a 1080/75 monitor with a 45 frame card.
Trying to play same super detailed game on a (presumably) 4GB card while running 8GB of RAM on (if I read right) a HDD. The system is certainly going to page file, and that is located on a platter drive. It's going to hitch under that demand.
 
Your RAM, is it 1x8gb or 2x4gb? If 1x8gb then I expect this is the biggest problem. The problem you describe would not be caused by having a cpu that is more capable than your gpu. Also do not use those bottleneck calculator websites, they are complete misleading garbage.
 
I think either adjust expectations or upgrade the GPU is best choice.

But adjusting expectations is perhaps the better first move. Often, simply changing some game settings from ULTRA to VERY HIGH, or Very High to High, High to medium, can make a MAJOR effect in game performance with very little loss of game enjoyment.

Most people playing at twitch levels demanding high FPS and high refresh already do that, often even with top-level hardware just because the eye-click coordination and lag-free performance is far more important than scenery.
 
Is it worth spending my money on this rig? Or buy a complete new one with a Ryzen 5 3600 with a 1660Ti.
Don't know the total dollar outlay you're looking at for that...but go with a 2070 super (or 5700XT) if it's close to the same. That might bottle neck the 2600 but moving into another motherboard later on will let you overclock it.

You'd be well advised to get a new mobo for the 3600 too, btw, so I'm assuming that would be part of what you planned.
 

olivier.corderius

Prominent
Oct 21, 2018
58
0
530
0
Don't know the total dollar outlay you're looking at for that...but go with a 2070 super (or 5700XT) if it's close to the same. That might bottle neck the 2600, but moving into another motherboard later on will let you overclock it.

You'd be well advised to get a new mobo for the 3600 too, btw.
I'll just keep the 5 2600 i have right now, could buy a B450 MAX for the 3600, but the processor upgrade is not need
 
I'll just keep the 5 2600 i have right now, could buy a B450 MAX for the 3600, but the processor upgrade is not need
Keep the 2600, get the 2070/5700 class GPU and a B450 board so you're well positioned to upgrade to a 3000 processor in the future and you'll be pretty good I have to think. Especially since 2600's overclock pretty well but not on that A320 board. Just be sure it's a decent board and it doesn't have to be an MSI MAX board.
 
Last edited:

Karadjgne

Titan
Ambassador
A bottleneck is something that slows down the flow of data. It's that simple. A cpu cannot be a bottleneck just based on that alone as it's what sets the flow of data to begin with. It's output is simply just what it is. A gpu can be a bottleneck if the settings/resolution are cranked so high that the fps output from the gpu is curtailed to the point of unplayability.

But things change. There's no absolute like a calculator would have you believe. There's a massive difference in game code between CSGO and BF1 and that will affect the fps output from the cpu and the fps output from the gpu. 2 different games, 2 different results. So how a calculator can say 1 determination is asinine.

I7 3770k, day before the i7 4770k dropped and Windows put me at 7.9 out of 8.0, had beautiful pc and speeds, as good as it got. Day after the i7 4770k released, Windows said now 5.9 out of 8.0 because my cpu was too slow and needed upgrade. Obsolete after only 2 days?

Be careful with what some people or things say, they do not take anything into consideration.

You have an A320 mobo, so are stuck at 2nd Gen cpus and stock settings. No OC. 2666MHz ram is decent, but you'll be running slower vrs 3200MHz ram. The 1050ti is decent for 1080p med-high in most, ultra in some and still get over 60fps.

But software can hurt while rendering. Depending on the settings. OBS is more cpu bound and there's plenty online tweeks for setting it up to be minimally invasive but maximize render. Nvenc is minimally invasive to the gpu with next to nothing on the cpu. So if the cpu isn't pushed, but the gpu is, then use obs, but if the cpu is pushed and gpu isn't then use nvenc.

First try to tailor what you have, to fit your wants. Only if that fails then change what you have to fit the need.

A stronger gpu will go a long way to helping with nvenc in more situations. A better motherboard/ram and OC will go a long way to freeing up the cpu for obs.
 
Bottleneck calculators are junk science.
Why??
For one thing, they do not account for the types of games that you play.
Some games are graphics limited like fast action shooters.
Others are cpu core speed limited like strategy, sims, and mmo.
Multiplayer tends to like many threads.

What to do?
First since I assume you are not happy with your gaming, try a few tests:
a) Run YOUR games, but lower your resolution and eye candy.
If your FPS increases, it indicates that your cpu is strong enough to drive a better graphics configuration.
If your FPS stays the same, you are likely more cpu limited.

b) Limit your cpu, either by reducing the OC, or, in windows power management, limit the maximum cpu% to something like 70%.
Go to control panel/power options/change plan settings/change advanced power settings/processor power management/maximum processor state/
This will simulate what a lack of cpu power will do.
Conversely what a 30% improvement in core speed might do.

You should also experiment with removing one or more cores/threads. You can do this in the windows msconfig boot advanced options option.
You will need to reboot for the change to take effect. Set the number of threads to less than you have.
This will tell you how sensitive your games are to the benefits of many threads.
If you see little difference, your game does not need all the threads you have.



It is possible that both tests are positive, indicating that you have a well balanced system,
and both cpu and gpu need to be upgraded to get better gaming FPS.

What is your windows C drive?
How much space is actually used?
I will never again build without a ssd for the "C" drive. It makes everything you do much quicker.
240gb is minimum, it will hold the os and a handful of games.

If you can go 500gb you may never need a hard drive.
With ssd prices down, even 1tb is reasonable.

If a graphics card upgrade is in order, that is a good thing.
A graphics card upgrade is good even for a future rebuild.
A GTX1660ti would be a significant graphics upgrade.
What is the make/model of your psu?
a 300w psu might run a GTX1050ti, but not anything stronger like a GTX1660ti.

A cpu upgrade is more complicated and requires a bit more discussion.
 
May 15, 2020
10
0
10
0
Main specs:
MSI A320M PRO-VH PLUS
GTX 1050Ti
Ryzen 5 2600
8GB DDR4 2666MHz


I would upgrade your ram and the GPU upgrade would be amazing. 1050 is outdated. I would say buy a dual channel kit of 8x2 3200 RAM. Your cpu is fine though.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Ambassador
Yep. Common occurance. I've tested out psu calculators as they get posted by Op's, and one even recommended a Corsair 1000w HX Platinum. For my i5-3570k and gtx660ti. Normally you'll see recommendations in the 750w - 850w range, because you know that bigger is better, for sure. 🤔

If I ever come across any Calculator, anywhere, that was worth its weight in Gold instead of Manure, it'd be in my sig, but until then assume that every last one of them is garbage fed by sponsors trying to make a buck.
 

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