i need a microATX board that has PCIe 8x/8x (dual slots for dual GPU but not SLI/CrossFire)

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giantbucket

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I have a machine used for my stocks trading, which needs dual graphics cards (plus onboard) to display my charts onto all of my monitors. but it's on a giant ATX size board in a giant ATX appropriate case. it's too big considering there's just ONE hard drive in there with my OS.

I want something more efficient, more effective. I want to transition to a mATX board but that board MUST accept dual graphics cards (double-slot), so it would have to be one of those 16x/0x that converts to 8x/8x. and both slots run from the CPU, not one from CPU and one from chipset.

so, um, how do I actually FIND such a board? is there a certain "spec" that matches what I want, like SLI-ready or CrossFire-ready or whatnot? I'm not actually going to SLI/CrossFire the cards because they MUST run independently.

intel or AMD, doesn't matter. but the board & processor MUST have onboard graphics as well, cuz I just run that many monitors.

and it must be affordable! I'm not about to pay $200-plus for a board with wild features that are irrelevant to me.
 
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Go to PCPartPicker and under motherboard, select the Micro-ATX filter and for PCI-Ex16 slots, slide the minimum to two. Beyond that, there's really no differentiating between boards and there is no specification listed which will state if the on-board graphics function with a discrete card installed.

-Wolf sends
 
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I don't think I have ever seen a x8, x0 MoBo. So that leaves just about any MoBo with a single x16 slot.

$101 MSI Z97M-G43
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130780
PCI Express 3.0 x16 = 1 x PCI Express 3.0 x16
Click to expand...

$109 GIGABYTE GA-Z97M-D3H
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128717
PCI Express 3.0 x16 = 1 x PCI Express 3.0 x16
Click to expand...

Although you have no need per your post, if you wanted (2) PCIe 3.0 slots to run two cards at x8, this would do that:

$114 GIGABYTE GA-Z97MX-Gaming 5
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128716

The MSI has 100% "5 egg" reviews and the Gigabyte Z97M has 80%, but it's hard to accept the small number of reviews for both as statistically significant
 
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There's no reason NOT to get a Crossfire or SLI board. THIS is the one I recommend:
http://pcpartpicker.com/part/asus-motherboard-z97mplus

*I chose this board because:
a) it supports both 4th and 5th gen Intel CPU's
b) it supports 2x graphics cards
c) (it also supports overclockable CPU's so you could even go as high as a 6C/12T, 5th gen CPU later if you wanted.

Also, if it's just to run non-gaming tasks on monitors you don't need x8 + x8. You just need two, x16 slots for graphics cards. Nothing else matters.

As said you can use PCPARTPICKER. You can also save a LOT of money if you don't need much of a CPU (don't game or do video editing). A G3258 would be fine.

Example:
Don't need a high-end CPU right away?
a) Intel G3258
b) above Asus board
c) graphics cards (wasn't sure if you had them already)
d) 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 memory kit
etc
 
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thanks for the suggestions. to clarify and what I've noticed so far:

I need to run dual cards, each is double-wide, and I'd PREFER for them to be run as 8x/8x, so I'd prefer the type of slot arrangement that does 16x or 8x/8x, which some do.

(( yes, I already have the two cards, they're being used in my full-size ATX setup ))

I need slot 1 to be 16x (and thus 8x when slot 3 is occupied)
I need slot 3 to be 8x
I don't care about slot 2 or 4

I notice that - after poking through about 40 boards using pcpartpicker - that A LOT of them put the second PCIe slot into the LAST lane, the 4th position. ARGH! that's idiotic because I can't put in a double-wide card into that slot if I put this into a matching mATX case. are half of those board designers idiots???

it seems that the cheapest one I found regardless of chipset (H or Z, intel or amd) is that Gigabyte Z97MX-Gaming 5 which sells for around $150 up here in Canada. there's no cheaper LGA1155 option which would at least let me reuse my existing i5 chip.


QUESTION:

if SLI requires dual 8x slots run from a CPU, then if I search for mATX boards that are SLI-ready, wouldn't that quickly give me what I need? except that some boards might have the second 8x in the 4th position...

and yeah, I could easily get by with a G or A4 processor, it's just a Java-based trading platform. but, I'd want the 8x/8x lanes from the CPU. I don't know why, it just feels more "correct" than having a 16x from CPU plus a 4x from chipset even if it's graphically not that intensive.
 
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SLI/Crossfire...

You said you had no plans to use SLI or Crossfire (only used for gaming and need identical GPU's usually). Now you're asking about it?

Again, the only requirement to run cards SEPARATELY for multiple monitors is that the board have the proper slot (i.e. x8/x16 PCIe).

SLI or Crossfire again is solely for gaming and uses identical or near-identical GPU's to alternate producing frames for the game. GPU#1 for Frame#1, then GPU#2 for Frame#2 and repeat.

And for non-gaming the bandwidth of the slot isn't very important so you don't "need" it to be 8x in reality.

*There's nothing wrong with the Gigabyte Gaming board linked either. Both will serve you just fine.
 
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Could you post your components please.... if you are saying what i think you are saying. You want to run two (2) dual GPU .... as in two GTX 690s

Most times when ya see two dual GPU cards in SLI, it's on X79 / X99 platform so each slot can run at x16 .

Z87/Z97 support only 16 lanes.... so with X8 x8, you can NOT use any of the other PCIe x16 slots or SLI goes bye bye .....

1 slot used gets ya x16
2 slots used gets ya x8, x8
3 slots used gets ya x8, x4, x4
 
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CASE:
You need to look a bit CLOSER because I think a 2-slot card would actually fit many micro-ATX cases even though you wouldn't have a 2nd slot to attach a screw to. It's a bit hard to tell from the pictures. There's a small gap between the bottom of the board and the top of the Power Supply.

(I also don't think it's "idiotic" the way these are designed as most people getting two, 2-slot cards go with ATX. As for micro-ATX many people have a main card then a secondary, single-slot card or don't even use the 2nd PCIe slot for a graphics card at all. The existing layouts are done that way for a reason; it's you who is looking at an atypical setup. So you'll have to decide whether to spend more on the Gigabyte Gaming board for $150 since I think it's the only one that suits your needs. Or get a slightly bigger case. It adds like 2" to the height only anyway, but then if doing that is there any point in buying the board since you already have a setup?)

Frankly I'm not sure you're really saving much space but it's your money.

Anyway, it sounds like you've got enough info to choose your parts. Here's my two cents:

1) Z97 recommended for future compatibility with 5th gen CPU's

2) any two compatible PCIe slots are fine for your purpose. Bandwidth and SLI/Crossfire are simply non-issues for your non-gaming usage and if you did game then you have a top slot to run a single powerful card if you want.

3) Make sure 2nd card fits as mentioned.

4) Read comments/reviews to ensure the board is reasonable quality with no issues.
 
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specifically, I have two Asus GT640-2GD3 cards, each is dual-slot wide, and each runs 4 monitors. yes, two identical cards, but they won't be crossfired since I need to use all of the DVI/HDMI/VGA outputs, but for reasons of "that seems right / that just seems wrong" I'd prefer them to be in similar slots (so 8x/8x). I understand that I could probably run them as 16x/4x(from chipset), but that would just rub me the wrong way.

the reason I asked about SLI is that maybe one of the requirements for an SLI board is that it must have dual 8x slots, which is precisely what I want. I wouldn't actually USE the SLI feature, but I'd use the slots that it requires, separately. it's kind of as if the SLI requirements and my requirements have an overlap that I can use to quickly find a board. and besides, those GT640 cards don't even do SLI.

and yeah, I wouldn't use any other lanes. I mean, I wouldn't care nor would I be able to, since two double-wide cards in a mATX format use up all 4 expansion slot brackets in the chassis anyways. I'd just use two PCIe slots at 8x/8x, and probably just one SATA port for the OS drive.


(( weird observation - since the PCIe 8x/8x are coming from the CPU anyways, it's weird that only the Z-chipset boards are actually designed to make use of it, since the lanes have nothing to do with the chipset! ))
 
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If you read much of the post then you would know that PRICE is an issue. We already found a $150CDN board that does what he wanted.

You're posting boards that cost $200 and $250 roughly. Unless you can find one for under $150 it's not worth mentioning.
 
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since the PCIe 8x/8x are coming from the CPU anyways
Click to expand...

Unless I'm mistaken, this is a misconception.

The motherboard determines how many PCI-E lanes are available. The CPU determines how many are supported. For instance, you can have a processor that supports up to 40 PCI-E lanes, but a motherboard that only has 20.

-Wolf sends
 
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Hey,
You seem very concerned with the bandwidth issue of having two, 8x PCIe slots. It's simply a NON ISSUE for your usage. It would make absolutely NO DIFFERENCE. You have more than enough bandwidth with only a 4x PCIe 2.0 slot for your card.

You say it "rubs you the wrong way" which I'm not sure I understand. Your bus speed is faster than what you will use, thus no bottleneck, thus IDENTICAL performance.

So there is no "overlap" in requirements. The x8/x8 setup is overkill. Anyway, I don't think I can explain any clearer so choose whatever you want. You still have limited choices anyway by trying to use a small micro-atx case with two, 2-slot cards.
 
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1. You will be just fine with the $100 MSI / Gigabyte boards linked in my above post

2. You can't CF two nVidia cards (SLI)

3. 16/4 is not possible.
 
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HW / DC CPUs support 16 lanes.... you can use a PEX chip on the MoBo to increase this but it's a bit of a kludge (not recommended).

The Intel enthusiast platform typically has 40 PCIe lanes, while the mainstream platform has 16. We have 28 lane (5820k) and 40 lane (5830k) CPUs are on the X79 / X99 platform. Also w/ some manufavturere's the M.2 slot can steal lanes away from the GFX cards

The actual limit is the CPU, not the platform. However, if MoBo manufacturer goes the cheap route, they may "steal" some of those lanes to support features like M.2 instead of supporting them via the MoBo to cut costs..

Gigabyte is the stand up guy here providing support for 4 way SLI on the Gigabyte X99-UD3, Gigabyte X99-UD4, Gigabyte X99-UD5 WiFi, Gigabyte X99-UD7 WiFi, Gigabyte X99-Gaming 5, Gigabyte X99-Gaming G1 WiFi, Gigabyte X99-SOC Force no matter whether M.2 is used.

Very few Asrock boards can do 4 way with or without M.2... the ASRock X99 WS is one that does.

Among Asus's offerings, the Asus X99 Deluxe will not do 4 way, the Rampage won't do it if M.2 is present

The MSI SLI Plus matches the futility of the Asus Deluxe and the XPower / Gaming 9 are like the Rampage

http://uk.hardware.info/reviews/5600/2/15-intel-x99-motherboards-review-new-boards-for-haswell-e-pci-express-lanes-for-sli-and-crossfire

One of the most important feature that differentiates the boards is the way that the manufacturer has implemented the use of the available PCI-Express lanes of the Haswell-E platform. The CPU's have either 40 PCI-Express 3.0 lanes (5960Xand the 5930K) or 28 lanes (5820K) available, and the chipset provides an additional 8 PCI-Express 2.0 lanes. The PCI-Express 3.0 provided by the CPU is commonly used for the graphic card slots, but also for additional controllers such as a fast M.2 SSD slot. The lanes provided by the chipset are used for the netwerk controller(s), extra SATA or USB controller and the PCI-Express x or x4 slots.

The X99 supports (in theory) 2-way, 3-way and 4-way SLI or Crossfire, however when using a 5820K as a processor the 4 way option will not be available due to the maximum amount of lanes available on that processor (28). Not all boards we tested sport enough PCI-Express slots to actually cater for 3 or 4 way SLI configurations. It is also worth noting that nVidia requires a minimum of 8 lanes for every PCI-Express slot when running a 4 way SLI configuration.
Click to expand...
 
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wolf - I would guess 8x/8x because the CPU can only support 28.

which brings me to another question - how many PCIe lanes can the AMD APUs support? I know that the FX chips on AM3+ can support 40 lanes, but they don't have a built-in graphics chip so for this case they're a no-go (as is LGA2011). and LGA1155 / LGA1150 chips have 28 PCIe lanes. but what about FM2 / FM2+ processors? I would have thought I'd find a few options before hitting $150 mobo prices...
 
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Neither..... they will run x16, x8

2 cards will run in 16/8....28 lanes - can run x16, x8, x4 (16+8+4 = 28)
2 cards w/ M.2 will run in 16/8....28 lanes - can run x16, x8 + 4 for M.2 (16+8+4 = 28)

Just look at the above link (copied again below) at the 28 lane table

http://uk.hardware.info/reviews/5600/2/15-intel-x99-motherboards-review-new-boards-for-haswell-e-pci-express-lanes-for-sli-and-crossfire

28 lane CPU (Core i7 5820K)
ASRock X99 Extreme4 (without M.2 x4): Supports 2-way SLI / 2 & 3 way CF
ASRock X99 Extreme4 (with M.2 x4): Supports 2-way SLI / 2 way CF

Number of lane per slot for the number of slots filled in ( )
ASRock X99 Extreme4 (without M.2 x4) = (1) 16 - (2) 16 / 8 - (3) 16 / 8 / 4
ASRock X99 Extreme4 (with M.2 x4) = (1) 16 - (2) 16 / 8
 
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First of all, most Intel boards are PCIe version 3 and AMD are version 2.

Basically:
16x PCIe v2 =
8x PCIe v3

Also, some motherboards simply use the CPU memory controller built into the CPU whereas some others have on-board chips (for gamer) to increase the number of PCIe channels.

It gets even more complicated because for some boards if you use a feature like say one of the SATA controllers you can reduce the bandwidth of the 2nd GPU slot (i.e. 8x to 4x).

FINALLY, it's all really a non-issue for your usage since you aren't gaming. The cards used and the way you're using them simply isn't very demanding. Regardless you've got two choices basically:

1) The $150 Gigabyte discussed, or
2) A cheaper board... however none I found seemed suitable for a 2nd, 2-slot card.

So... not sure you've got much choice here.
 
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