I need expert advice before I buy! Help me out guys!

[Blown_65]

Current system:
P4 Northwood 3.0Ghz
MSI Neo2 FISR
1GB of Nanya PC3200 (512x2/dual channel)
Sound Blaster Audigy2
PNY GeForce 6200 AGP
Cooler Master case w/500watt PSU.

I'm itching to upgrade, but here's my delima...

CPU?
3000+/3200+/3500+/3700+/or X2 3800+??

MB?
ASRock Dual/DFI Infinity/ASUS A8N-E/Gigabyte GA-K8N/eVGA 133-K8-NF41/ ABIT KN8/or MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum? (some are SLI, probably won't use it) TOO many to choose from!! Fried my brain!!

GPU?
6800XT/7300GS/7600GS/7600GT

RAM?
keep current mem until $$ permits? or will it be well worth it to buy new ram now?

My current system gets me by fine, I'm just parting it out for my girl to use for homework, so I need new internals. It doesn't need to play fear or oblivion on max settings and my budget is under $500. Thanks guys!! (i'm keeping everything except for cpu/mb/gpu, unless it's recommended I get new ram) Oh, and I have 2 sata hdd's 120gb and 80gb, so I'm keeping them too.

 

[Blown_65]

The X2 cpu isn't really do-able in my budget, but for example... I could by a 3000+ with the Albatron K8SLI and an eVGA 7600GS for a total (w/s+h) of $309.67 minus the $20 rebate... utilizing my current components, would this system be better than my current system?

 

[sandmannight]

the ram will do...Get a 3700, 7600gt, Asrock mobo...this is about 500

 

[Ultraviolet]

CPU?
3000+/3200+/3500+/3700+/or X2 3800+??

I'd go for the 3700+, well actually i did, and it is good. An X2 will blow your budget.

MB?
ASRock Dual/DFI Infinity/ASUS A8N-E/Gigabyte GA-K8N/eVGA 133-K8-NF41/ ABIT KN8/or MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum? (some are SLI, probably won't use it) TOO many to choose from!! Fried my brain!!

Now this is a tricky one. I know there are many compatibility issues with ASUS boards and certain psu's. So its best tocheck before buying. To be honest any of them should be fine.

GPU?
6800XT/7300GS/7600GS/7600GT

I'd get a card in the 7000 series, if you not really going to play high end games any of these should be fine.

RAM?
keep current mem until $$ permits? or will it be well worth it to buy new ram now?

Your current ram should be fine. But more ram is always good.

 

[Blown_65]

Thanks for the reply guys! I have a couple more questions, but I hope they don't irritate you... please forgive my ignorance... Will I notice a difference if I went from my 3.0ghz/0.13u/P4 to the 1.8ghz/90n/3000+? I guess what I'm asking is, I know that the 3700+ would be noticeable difference, but which amd would be equivlent? On tom's hardware cpu chart my P4 is a tough little cpu, it's just old. I was just thinking... if I bought a 3000+ now bcuz of its price tag, an ok SLI board for expandability, and a 7300gs for now, would it be equal or better than my current system? I mean it's very do-able for me to buy a nice X2 later on with nice brand of 2gb ram and 2x's whatever new video card comes out later, ya know? And are the DX10 cards gonna be pci-ex16? I mean, can I count on upgrading to one of those later? Thanks!!

 

[Blown_65]

I know this is probably "crossing the line" but what about an Intel based, dual core system? Is it do-able within my budget? Then I'd need a cpu/mb/gpu/and ram... ??

 

[jap0nes]

i think your system is still good.... if i were you i would get 1 extra gig of ram and a new video card... there are 7800gt agp for example

the final performance would be way better than if you get a new cpu and a 7300/7600

 

[Datman]

I would just upgrade your graphics card to a 6800 or X800, this will give a bigger improvement in perforance than anything else.

Buy a cheap little setup for your girl to do homework on with the rest of the money.

 

[Blown_65]

Any specific brand or regular 6800 or gs/gt/utltra? Would it really make that much of a difference? Hmm.... I think you're right!! I'm gonna look into this... Thanks!!

 

[shabodah]

Not sure what everyone else is thinking, but at $300 for a 3800x2, a evga 7600gs is $100 after rebate, you still got $100 budget for a MB. That will last you a good long while and handle anything that isn't real terrible. Even play Oblivion on medium settings ok.

 

[Datman]

Look for a 6800 with 16 pipelines GT or Ultra if you can find one.

Difference between the 6200 and 6800 would be like night and day.

 

[Blown_65]

Newegg doesn't have anything!? Only an Apollo 6800/128mb or an Asus 6800/512mb... where else can I look? Ebay?

 

[Datman]

Don't touch the Apollo, only 8 pipelines.
The Asus is ok, could be better.

I don't know what other stores are in America, I live to far away to know.

How do you feel about Ati?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814241010
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?N=2010380048+1069609639+1305520549+1068109604+1067918139&Submit=ENE&SubCategory=48
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?N=2010380048+1069609639+1305520549+1068109604+1067918889&Submit=ENE&SubCategory=48

 

[shabodah]

yeah, ATI x1600xt 512 $145.

 

[Blown_65]

Hmm... Never thought about ATI... I'm willing to give them a try... X1600PRO or the X800GTO? What nvidia are they comparable to? Which on is better between the two? I'm guessing the GTO? You guys rock!! Thanks for all of your help!!

 

[Scougs]

I'm not quite sure which is faster between the X800GTO and the X1600 but I do know that I am pretty happy with my Sapphire X800GTO. It looks like many of the Sapphire AGP X800GTOs are unlockable if you are into that sort of thing. Mine unlocked, I helped another guy from these forums unlock his, and I know a guy from on of my college classes that unlocked one as well.
Unlocking the Sapphire card basically makes it an X800XL (16 pixel pipes instead of 12).

 

[Blown_65]

So what would a stock X800GTO be in nVidia terms? I can't find any benchmarks to compare? I am more than willing to give ATI a shot, because it seems that nVidia agp's are really hard to find or really high-priced. I appreciated your help!

 

[Scougs]

I am don't have a specific comparison that I can point you to but I expect that in most cases the the stock AGP X800GTO will outpace the AGP 6800GS and depending on the application may be higher or lower than a 6800GT. If you unlock it, it will definately outpace both cards and might even be faster than a 6800 ultra in some cases.

BTW, if you are interested in more performance, overclocking your CPU might be just what you need. The Northwood C P4s (800MHz fsb and HT) overclock very well. I have my 2.8C @ 3.5GHz on stock voltage. I also have an MSI board but a slightly different model. If you have any questions let me know.

For reference, with my CPU @ 3.5 and my memory and DDR400 and an unlocked Sapphire X800GTO I get about 5500 in 3D-Mark 2005.

 

[Datman]

Go for the X800XL first, 16 pipes and no risk to unlock or not.
Then the X800GTO.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/07/05/vga_charts_vii/page2.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/2004/10/04/vga_charts_iv/page3.html

Some of the THG VGA charts for a comparison.

 

[shabodah]

x800 cards are nice, no doubt, but for longevity sake, I would recommend the 1600. x800 series cards can not do HDR or SM 3.0. In fact, a lot of the benchmarks you'll see will note that the x800 is faster in some games because it uses SM 2.0 instead of 3.0. HDR is very nice for Oblivion and I'm sure we will be seeing more and more of it.

 

[Blown_65]

So the X1600PRO is better because it's newer? It has HDR and SM 3.0... But from some benchmarks I've seen it looks as though the X800GTO is like a 6800GT and the X1600PRO is like a 6600GT... I found an X1600PRO @ newegg for around $119, but the mem is only 256mb/128-bit/gddr2... the X800GTO isn't much more (like $35 more) and it has 256mb/256-bit/gddr3 mem and it's core/mem clocks are faster... I'm confused to how HDR and SM 3.0 make the X1600PRO better if it's slower? I'm itching to buy now, but I don't want to make a mistake!? ....help me out fellas!! I appreciate all of your help!!!

 

[Blown_65]

I would be very interested in OC'ing my P4... currently I'm only using the D.O.T. on my board... "private" setting which barely raised it to 3.04mhz, but for some reason it runs better? (my mind maybe) Anyhow, I have the Arctic Cooling Freezer 4 with Arctic Silver 5 on it and it runs pretty cool. (around 80deg F) I've wanted to overclock, but don't know much about voltages and such. So when you said stock voltages... hmm... I'll give it a try. Does your mb have the MSI Core Cell on it? Mine does and it seems easy enough to OC with, but if you could let me know tips/tricks to OC'ing I'd appreciated it!

-better to oc in bios or in windows?

 

[angry_ducky]

I would be very interested in OC'ing my P4... currently I'm only using the D.O.T. on my board... "private" setting which barely raised it to 3.04mhz, but for some reason it runs better? (my mind maybe) Anyhow, I have the Arctic Cooling Freezer 4 with Arctic Silver 5 on it and it runs pretty cool. (around 80deg F) I've wanted to overclock, but don't know much about voltages and such. So when you said stock voltages... hmm... I'll give it a try. Does your mb have the MSI Core Cell on it? Mine does and it seems easy enough to OC with, but if you could let me know tips/tricks to OC'ing I'd appreciated it!

-better to oc in bios or in windows?

It's better to overclock in the BIOS than in Windows. You don't need to change the voltage unless you overclock very high.

 

[Blown_65]

Thanks, I'll give it a try... one more question though... my mb has that D.O.T. which is basically pick a setting 1-4, 4 being highest oc. Is it better to oc manually, or since it has this "automatic" feature use it? Again, I appreciate your time.

 

[shabodah]

Ok, to further explain the x800 versus x1600 thing, It is easiest to use a few analogies. The x800 series is like a v8 engine, the x1600 is like a v6. But the features of the x1600 are better (kinda like having better gas mileage). x800 cards have more processing power, no doubt. However, the newest titles use HDR, and x800 cards can not use it, so they default to the older bloom style effects. Also, they can not use SM 3.0, so default to the older 2.0 style. The ability to process HDR and SM 3.0 give the x1600 versatility. It can also be used a little better for other multimedia uses as well with the latest drivers. If the x1600 was manually set to use SM 2.0 and not use HDR, it would still be slower than the x800 series, but not as drastic as the 2.0 to 3.0 comparison makes it look. HDR and SM 3.0 are more about image quality and graphic effects, not pure FPS. So, if you don't care about them, you would be better off with the x800. For most people either card would be fine. But if you will not be upgrading in the future and you are a multimedia and image quality buff, you'd probably be better off with the x1600. Personally, I wouldn't bother will any card that cannot do SM 3.0 and HDR, but that's just how I am. On the other hand, I don't really pay attention to AA, either. If you really want longevity, you'll have to make the jump to PCIe. Another analogy for HDR and SM 3.0 is how current processors have SSE, SSE2, & SSE3. In the real world, you don't use SSE2 or SSE3 very often, but when you do, it can be a pretty big difference. Why close that door if you don't have to?