[SOLVED] I recently upgraded cooler but still higher temps ?

[nirmalvishal]

MSI aegis prebuilt
intel i7 11700k CPU
Z590 MSI ces wifi motherboard

The system runs hot no matter what, tired everything the idle temps are between 60c to 66c and while gaming it hits around 85c to 88c I am not sure what is causing this.
Upgraded all the fans, using the Fuma 2 cooler based on my research it shouldn't push more than 68c while gaming. Airflow is also decent, running benchmark tests while the case is open still presents the same temps.
I am starting to think its a defective processor or motherboard.
At first the prebuilt came with a 120mm AIO threw that away and got the Fuma 2 based on many people's suggestions but I am really unhappy already mounted it 3 times but not a single change in temps 5c here and there. I am starting to think if I am doing something wrong or that's the max this cooler can push?
Or could it be some default settings this bios comes with?

https://imgur.com/a/gtFcyJK

View: https://imgur.com/a/gtFcyJK

 

[geofelt]

77c. running CPU-Z is just fine.
Do not overly worry about temperatures.
The cpu will monitor it and will slow down or shut off to protect itself if it senses a dangerous temperature.
That is around 100c.

Ambient is not exactly room temperature.
It is the temperature inside the case that the cooler needs to deal with.
Without a probe, you can only guess at what the temperatures inside is like.
A hot active graphics will heat things up inside.

I think you are good and do not need to obsess about this.

 

[nirmalvishal]

77c. running CPU-Z is just fine.
Do not overly worry about temperatures.
The cpu will monitor it and will slow down or shut off to protect itself if it senses a dangerous temperature.
That is around 100c.

The ambient is not exactly room temperature.
It is the temperature inside the case that the cooler needs to deal with.
Without a probe, you can only guess at what the temperatures inside is like.
A hot active graphics will heat things up inside.

I think you are good and do not need to obsess about this.

looks like I might have partly fixed this ambient issue. I am getting around 77c while stress testing and the ambient temps now are around 41c to 45c it turns out there was a rogue process running in the background without any signature I had to just delete it and now the ambient temps are below 50c but the only that still amuses me is the temps keep jumping randomly between 55c and 65c from 42c without slowly incrementing. I am starting to think it's a poor thermal solution or the application as I was a bit generous while applying. I will also wait for a few days before I will redo the whole thermal thing because someone on the web mentioned that I should leave the paste to settle or cure. Maybe with time, it will settle and temps will come down.
I have used master gel maker after using GELID GC-Extreme I really liked the Gelid but it's over now and I will have to import it.
https://www.amazon.com/GELID-GC-Extreme-3-5g-tooling-Conductivity/dp/B002P5W4RU

 

[geofelt]

It is normal for reported temperatures to vary quickly.
Temperatures are not measured directly.
It is a calculation based on other electrical signals that can change in a heartbeat.

 

[Phaaze88]

Some things have already been pointed out by others, but:

1)The chassis has poor airflow, particularly at the front: https://us-store.msi.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=735
Top exhaust fans are a detriment to the cpu cooler, but the benefits to exhausting the gpu's heat tend to overshadow that.

2)

cannot find default settings and configuration for this processor

Because there aren't any, save for turbo short, turbo long, and turbo duration. The selling point of K cpus is that they are completely tunable as the user desires - with a Z series board, of course.
Turbo short, or PL2, is 250w. Turbo long, or PL1, is 125w. Boost duration, or Tau, is 56 seconds.

3)It is normal for motherboards to apply more voltage than the cores need; silicon quality can't be predicted, so voltage is set around a worst bin so as to guarantee the advertised performance regardless of silicon quality.
Z590 motherboards have been shown to have unusually aggressive auto voltage curves. So you will need to do away with auto Vcore mode and apply an offset of your own.
Bios updates might contain improved voltage curves via performance or stability improvements, so keep an eye on that.

4)I agree with @punkncat that the FUMA 2 is a great cooler, but is a bit lightweight when it comes to high power draw chips or scenarios. But idling on the desktop is not a high power draw scenario, and neither is gaming for the most part; the gpu's heat be raising temperatures.
So if overclocking an i7/i9, or board settings are too aggressive, it can be found wanting. You should be able to get it under control by disabling overclocks and tuning the voltage yourself.
If the air cooler has a defect, it would show right away...

5)Too much paste is bad in that it's messy/messier. The temperature differences are minor.

Spoiler

https://www.overclock.net/threads/w...airflow-cooler-fan-data.1491876/post-22335323

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUWVVTY63hc

6)As @geofelt pointed out, it's normal for cpu activity and temperatures to bounce around.
If you want it to stop, literally kill your OS.

7)According to the screenshot of Intel XTU, this cpu has an overclock applied, and a base clock OC, at that. Base clock tuning touches on core clock, cache clock, and memory clock at the same time.
A)The reference, or base clock, is set to 102.3mhz. It should be at 100.0mhz.
B)Both turbo short and turbo long are set to 288w. What the heck...

8)You don't appear to have Msi's Dragon Center installed, but just in case: this application can apply an overclock 'a performance optimization' on its own, even without telling you.
If you need to use Mystic Light for LED control, it can be installed separately.

 

[nirmalvishal]

Some things have already been pointed out by others, but:

1)The chassis has poor airflow, particularly at the front: https://us-store.msi.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=735
Top exhaust fans are a detriment to the cpu cooler, but the benefits to exhausting the gpu's heat tend to overshadow that.

2)

Because there aren't any, save for turbo short, turbo long, and turbo duration. The selling point of K cpus is that they are completely tunable as the user desires - with a Z series board, of course.
Turbo short, or PL2, is 250w. Turbo long, or PL1, is 125w. Boost duration, or Tau, is 56 seconds.

3)It is normal for motherboards to apply more voltage than the cores need; silicon quality can't be predicted, so voltage is set around a worst bin so as to guarantee the advertised performance regardless of silicon quality.
Z590 motherboards have been shown to have unusually aggressive auto voltage curves. So you will need to do away with auto Vcore mode and apply an offset of your own.
Bios updates might contain improved voltage curves via performance or stability improvements, so keep an eye on that.

4)I agree with @punkncat that the FUMA 2 is a great cooler, but is a bit lightweight when it comes to high power draw chips or scenarios. But idling on the desktop is not a high power draw scenario, and neither is gaming for the most part; the gpu's heat be raising temperatures.
So if overclocking an i7/i9, or board settings are too aggressive, it can be found wanting. You should be able to get it under control by disabling overclocks and tuning the voltage yourself.
If the air cooler has a defect, it would show right away...

5)Too much paste is bad in that it's messy/messier. The temperature differences are minor.

Spoiler

https://www.overclock.net/threads/w...airflow-cooler-fan-data.1491876/post-22335323

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUWVVTY63hc

6)As @geofelt pointed out, it's normal for cpu activity and temperatures to bounce around.
If you want it to stop, literally kill your OS.

7)According to the screenshot of Intel XTU, this cpu has an overclock applied, and a base clock OC, at that. Base clock tuning touches on core clock, cache clock, and memory clock at the same time.
A)The reference, or base clock, is set to 102.3mhz. It should be at 100.0mhz.
B)Both turbo short and turbo long are set to 288w. What the heck...

8)You don't appear to have Msi's Dragon Center installed, but just in case: this application can apply an overclock 'a performance optimization' on its own, even without telling you.
If you need to use Mystic Light for LED control, it can be installed separately.

Thank you for you response it really helps with troubleshooting this issue.

1) The chassis has really bad with the airflow so I bought 4 additional cooler master fans to make the airflow better. And it does definitely helps over the stock fans I got with this cooler. I have tired every variation, finally the one that works for me is 1st IN and 2nd OUT on top of the chassis res is the default front IN and finally the last on is the exhaust. When I put my hands inside I can clearly see plenty of airflow more than happy about it. Are you saying I remove the top fans? or leave them. I didnt see any change in temps very minimal.

2) I hate to say that this pc was fitted with a 120m AIO and they made the claim that, top in class cooling performance but turns out runs hot af.

So the mobo or the bios has 3 options
Boxed cooler mode shows PL1 125w and PL2 250w
Tower cooler mode shows PL1 288W and PL2 288w
liquid cooler mode which was the DEFAULT shows 300w+ idk

I wasn't aware of these setting before I got the pc I messed around and since Fuma 2 is tower cooler I set it on tower cooler mode so these settings are based on that but I have also tried boxed cooler mode just to be sure and it turns out there isn't any difference in the thermal performance still got the same ambient temps and same temps while gaming 77c to 83c or you can say around 3c to 4c lower on the boxed cooler at most. What worries me is my mate with the same processor and has a cooler master hyper 212 gets around 59c to 65c while gaming and that breaks my heart as I should be getting a lot better thermals than him in fact he has the same settings going on. The only difference is he is playing on a 1080p and I am running my display at 1440p I am assuming that can be heavy on the PC.

3) I am not aware of how I should tweak these settings every time I tweak the voltage curve settings or even touch it the system crashes even without tampering around with the settings I am using the msi centre to do it. Or should I use the XTU I messed with around with core voltage offset had a negligible difference.
I am assuming I will have to do it in the bios.
I don't really know what values to give and test I will have to learn that, so you are saying that the z590 board indeed ends up applying more volts and over-clocks it automatically.
Where do you think I can find this information regarding tuning my chip.

4) I commented posed on various outlets on amazon store, youtube and reddit while I already bought the arctic freezer duo 34 I had to return and it based on the advice I got off the internet most people were also more than ok with arctic freezer duo 34 but was told that fuma 2 has a similar performance to top end aircoolers at much lower price so I went with it but now I feel I cheaped out on it instead should have gone with be quit dark rock 4 or d-15 or a the arctic 240m aio for a couple of bucks more but my problem was budget because of the massive shipping and import taxes I had to compromise.
I am not sure where an how I should disable the overclock myself.

The GPU temps are really high, 75c to 77c while gaming is that normal? do you think it is contributing to the additional heat my CPU is making?
I was told to slightly under-volt the GPU( this specific model runs hot it seems) but I don't really know how to do it and dont want to mess around with it. Adding an additional mount bracket under the GPU with a fan can help? I have also bought the mount bracket just in case and I also have 2 additional fans lying around.

5) I understand that and its true as I have done this like around 7 times in total so far not much of a change. Maybe I should also give it time to settle in that could also be the problem? like give it like approx 200 hours to settle in ? Because I read somewhere about it, paste takes time to cure.

6) Makes sense with the temps bouncing rapidly so we can finaly rule out defective cpu cooler.

7) So there is an automatic overclocking being done. I will had to changed the base clock to 100.00 mhz everytime the system crashed it set it automatically to 102.3 mhz but right now I changed it back to 100.00mhz
When doing stress test on xtu I doesnt go more than 170w max usage age
I set it from liquid cooling(default) to tower cooler in my bios settings that is pl1 288w and pl2 288w so should I change it to boxed cooler or stock cooler that is pl1 125w to pl2 250w

8) MSI dragon centre is actually not compatible with this pc they have new version of it now called as MSI centre it has all the modes and profiles including dragon centre so coming to the point if I set that profile to balanced the temps when running a benchmark doesn't cross 71c and at the xtu it shows power-limit throttling even with the bios settings if I switch it to PL1 125w and PL2 250w it shows current EDP throttling and power-limit trotting so I run it on the tower mode because i don't see any of these throttles while running benchmark.
I made sure this application doesnt apply anything by unselecting every profile it has and I tried to play around with the fans at most.

The balanced mode on msi centre seems to have the best thermals so far but I believe it hampers my cpus performance.

 

[nirmalvishal]

77c. running CPU-Z is just fine.
Do not overly worry about temperatures.
The cpu will monitor it and will slow down or shut off to protect itself if it senses a dangerous temperature.
That is around 100c.

Ambient is not exactly room temperature.
It is the temperature inside the case that the cooler needs to deal with.
Without a probe, you can only guess at what the temperatures inside is like.
A hot active graphics will heat things up inside.

I think you are good and do not need to obsess about this.

True I need to move on, I am just kinda jealous about my mate lol. He has the same 11700k cpu and a lot more hotter chassis and a lower tier cpu cooler master hyper 212 . He ends up getting max 60c to 65c while gaming and that worries me. I am in fact so disappointed with this cpu I will change it in the next 2 years mobo and the processor. Its just my inner sub conscious mind that wont let go.

 

[Phaaze88]

1) The chassis has really bad with the airflow so I bought 4 additional cooler master fans to make the airflow better. And it does definitely helps over the stock fans I got with this cooler. I have tired every variation, finally the one that works for me is 1st IN and 2nd OUT on top of the chassis res is the default front IN and finally the last on is the exhaust. When I put my hands inside I can clearly see plenty of airflow more than happy about it. Are you saying I remove the top fans? or leave them. I didnt see any change in temps very minimal.

I want to avoid making another long post, so I will try to shorten responses... but they might not be as helpful.
1)Changes in air pressure. Adding fans can sometimes have the opposite effect. It's more notable in chassis with solid or semi solid paneling.

2)Yeah, the 120mm AIO thing is total bull. They're like the 2nd worst cooler that you could use, and only really worthwhile in a chassis that can't fit a tower air cooler.
Those tower cooler and liquid cooler modes are quite generous on the preset limits. I admit that they do keep things simple.

3)Bios > everything else. That software isn't necessary. Take some baby steps with negative Vcore offsets.
Cpu Vcore in offset mode and a negative offset of -0.050v is a good start. With Z590's aggressive voltage, you most likely can go even further, towards -0.100v or even -0.150v.

4)That depends on what's being cooled. With the coolers I have on hand, I noticed that heavier coolers hold up better with higher power draw cpus. But my small sample size may just be a coincidence - I know weight isn't everything.

5)I haven't heard about thermal paste curing time being a thing in a few years.

7)You changed base clock to 100 in bios and it kept crashing? Huh. I'm a little stumped on that one.
Box cooler mode is just fine - at least to game with.

8)Balanced mode does not hamper cpu performance if you're just playing games; the load changes frequently, constantly resetting turbo short(PL2) before it has a chance to expire. The cpu's power limit is pretty much always at 250w or other when playing games.
If you actually use the PC for high, steady loads, like with Cinebench or blender renders, then yes, the power limits and duration can be a hindrance.