I see why hunters have such a bad reputation

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So I was playing really tired last night in a 5-man on Scholomance and I
wasn't on the top of my game. I see now why hunters have a bad
reputation. It's very hard to do everything right and it's very easy to
do one thing wrong when it comes to playing as a hunter. Here are some
examples:

1) We are bypassing a group of mobs and the pet takes the long way
around, aggroing mobs. We wipe.
2) We're fighting some mobs and the pet gets feared into another group
of mobs. We wipe. They were inclined to blame my pet, but it was
really more the fault of us not using the proper pulling strategies (we
know what enemies fear, we should engage them somewhere safe).
3) The pet gets feared into more enemies and we don't wipe, but it was
close. Evidently we didn't learn the lesson of #2.
4) The pet chases a fleeing human into a group of more enemies. We
wipe. See #2 again.
5) I get to close to a group of enemies when setting up my trap and
aggro them. We wipe.

.... see a pattern here? 5-man Scholomance is very dangerous and if you
don't do everything just right, you're toast. You have to be in control
of your pet from second to second and watch him very carefully to make
sure he isn't chasing down a fleeing mob. In my tired state, I was
actually sort of drifting in and out, and would find myself sitting
there pounding autoshot for awhile while I took a mental break. You may
think I should've quit the group at this point, but they were inclined
to keep me because, at that time, there was really no one else around.

It didn't help that I wasn't the puller. Being the puller is my one
chance to shine. Of course, I was putting down traps and such, and the
warrior (or rogue if we were fighting humanoids) was trying his best to
bring the enemies across the freezing traps. But I like pulling because
I know how my pet is going to react and I know how far back we should be
when fighting mobs. Also, if I get a bad pull I can at least attempt to
feign death to save myself without wiping the party ... a warrior or
rogue just has to stand there and die.

So, in summary, I believe I did a bit of damage to my class last night.
By the end I just didn't have the pet out at all because it didn't seem
worth the risk. But that furry fella is a good 25% of my DPS, and not
using him gimps me.

--
~ Cyde Weys ~

Mana du vortes, mana du vortes
Aeria gloris, aeria gloris
 
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"Cyde Weys" <cyde@umd.edu> wrote in message
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> It didn't help that I wasn't the puller. Being the puller is my one
> chance to shine. Of course, I was putting down traps and such, and the
> warrior (or rogue if we were fighting humanoids) was trying his best to
> bring the enemies across the freezing traps. But I like pulling because
> I know how my pet is going to react and I know how far back we should be
> when fighting mobs. Also, if I get a bad pull I can at least attempt to
> feign death to save myself without wiping the party ... a warrior or
> rogue just has to stand there and die.
>

A warrior may have to stand there and die, but the rogue should just hit
vanish.

--
Davian / Dearic (Bloodhoof)

"We need a new Mario game, where you rescue the princess in the first ten
minutes, and for the rest of the game you try and push down that sick feeling
in your stomach that she's "damaged goods"... When Peach asks you, in the
quiet of her mushroom castle bedroom "do you still love me?" you pretend to be
asleep. You press the A button rhythmically, to control your breath, keep it
even." - Joey Comeau on increased realism in gaming.
 
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"Cyde Weys" <cyde@umd.edu> wrote in message
news:Xns965EA36762C772galopagosterrapincy@199.45.49.11...
> It didn't help that I wasn't the puller. Being the puller is my one
> chance to shine. Of course, I was putting down traps and such, and the
> warrior (or rogue if we were fighting humanoids) was trying his best to
> bring the enemies across the freezing traps. But I like pulling because
> I know how my pet is going to react and I know how far back we should be
> when fighting mobs. Also, if I get a bad pull I can at least attempt to
> feign death to save myself without wiping the party ... a warrior or
> rogue just has to stand there and die.

I never pull in Scholo. What I do do is set a trap away from the party, mark
who I'm going to freeze and pull them out of the pack into the trap (outof
AOE range ideally) after the tank has pulled (or usually the Pallie in
Scholo). Maybe set another trap for when he's out and then get assisting. My
pet won't be let off the leash until I know that another offtank is needed
or when I know the mob under fire isn't going anywhere due to
hamstring/concussion shot. Even if I do send him in, my mouse is usually
hovering over the stay or follow command while the autshot does its thing.

It's not particular to Scholo. Any 5 man instance, Dire Maul for example,
requires a class as flexible and multi-tasking as a hunter to be on his/her
toes.
 
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"porl" <porlp@btinternet.com> wrote in
news:3fc7m1F72qabU1@individual.net:

>
> "Cyde Weys" <cyde@umd.edu> wrote in message
> news:Xns965EA36762C772galopagosterrapincy@199.45.49.11...
>> It didn't help that I wasn't the puller. Being the puller is my one
>> chance to shine. Of course, I was putting down traps and such, and
>> the warrior (or rogue if we were fighting humanoids) was trying his
>> best to bring the enemies across the freezing traps. But I like
>> pulling because I know how my pet is going to react and I know how
>> far back we should be when fighting mobs. Also, if I get a bad pull
>> I can at least attempt to feign death to save myself without wiping
>> the party ... a warrior or rogue just has to stand there and die.
>
> I never pull in Scholo. What I do do is set a trap away from the
> party, mark who I'm going to freeze and pull them out of the pack into
> the trap (outof AOE range ideally) after the tank has pulled (or
> usually the Pallie in Scholo). Maybe set another trap for when he's
> out and then get assisting. My pet won't be let off the leash until I
> know that another offtank is needed or when I know the mob under fire
> isn't going anywhere due to hamstring/concussion shot. Even if I do
> send him in, my mouse is usually hovering over the stay or follow
> command while the autshot does its thing.

Yeah, I guess I really just need to be more careful about my pet. When
they let me pull it always goes a lot better. When I'm pulling I feel
that I'm in control and I get to control the pace of the encounters. I
don't get nearly as bored and I don't fool around as much. I get to
control where we fight the enemies, and keeping my pet in mind, I've
never had a problem with a pet chasing an enemy or getting feared and
aggroing more mobs.

Hrrmm, I think I've figured it out. When I pull, everything seems to go
well. The people I regularly group with know as much and let me pull.
The recent problems I've had in Scholomance was because our puller
wasn't having us stand far enough back, and thus we were getting pet
edge effects. I need to pay more attention next time I'm not pulling
and make sure they fight the encounters in the correct location.

> It's not particular to Scholo. Any 5 man instance, Dire Maul for
> example, requires a class as flexible and multi-tasking as a hunter to
> be on his/her toes.

I never had a problem with my pet in Dire Maul. Those guys don't fear
or run away, though. And the groups of mobs are better separated. I
always pull in Dire Maul. In Scholomance, there's enough humanoid
enemies that rogues need to pull for sapping purposes.


--
~ Cyde Weys ~

Mana du vortes, mana du vortes
Aeria gloris, aeria gloris
 
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> A warrior may have to stand there and die, but the rogue should just hit
> vanish.
>
If they have the reagent needed, which they should.

Regarding the main thread, I would say a pet in an instance should at all
times be in passive mode. If the dungeon has multiple paths, where a pet
can go a different path, I would dismiss him and whistle him back when
needed.
And regarding your pet chasing a mob and aggroing more, I would place ice
traps in between mobs so if one is fleeing towards another mob area they can
be held there.
I really don't know about this dungeon, but it should work the same.
 
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porl a écrit :
> "Cyde Weys" <cyde@umd.edu> wrote in message
> news:Xns965EE829B4FAE2galopagosterrapincy@199.45.49.11...
> > I never had a problem with my pet in Dire Maul. Those guys don't
fear
> > or run away, though. And the groups of mobs are better separated.
I
> > always pull in Dire Maul. In Scholomance, there's enough humanoid
> > enemies that rogues need to pull for sapping purposes.
>
> I don't really know why you insist on pulling. Apart from feign death
(which
> isn't a guaranteed get out) there's no advantage in a hunter pulling
> especially in a tight area like Scholomance where you're unlikely to
need to
> utilise a 41 yard range. A warrior throwing a brick will aggro the
required
> mobs just the same and it's pretty easy to know which other mobs are
going
> to come along as well.
>
> You're much more likley to want the Mage to pull by sheeping a caster
or
> silence, the rogue to pull by sapping or the warrior to pull by
charging and
> shield bashing a caster when the other two aren't available, or a
warlock to
> banish or a Druid to sleep (in UBRS for instance).
>
> I used to believe the myth that hunters were the natural pullers, and
insist
> on doing it, but I got over it and almost never do it now. I do
sometimes
> pull from the mobs the warrior pulled, but that's with the
understanding of
> the party for CC purposes.

I've yet to really see the point in pulling tactics. From my (priestly)
point of view, the best pulling tactic is to have someone do some kind
of big AOE attack. That way all the mobs are in one place with one
enemy that I can heal easily without having to worry about drawing
aggro.

A shaman is great for this. I've yet to see a better tank, even
warriors couldn't compete. Chain Lightning/Fire Nova totem/magma
totem/rockbiter while I heal, the hunter spams multishots, the warrior
whirlwinds and demo shouts in berzerk stance, and the mage blizzards
and cones of cold. The shaman is near certain to keep all mobs on him,
and the fight ends quicker than my first time ;)

Finesse is for sissies :p
 
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Christian Stauffer wrote:

/snipe

>
> The warrior I grouped with is not to blame, as he was 40 and I was
44.
> As it would've been hard for him to hold aggro, I did the pulling and
main
> tanking anyway and it was a good decision from him to use aggressive
or
> berserk stance, because we didn't have another dedicated damage
dealer :eek:)
>

Wrong, I have being doing SM as an 39 - 40th lvl warrior who had no
problem holding aggro.

Our group consisted of

rogue
warrior
druid

It is harder to hold aggro in battle stance than in defense stance
because warrior only had challenge shout (that can be used in all
stances) which is an AoE with 10 minutes cool down. Like Christian
said, my warrior is in defense mode in the instance in order to use
taunt (10s cooldown).

My tactic for holding a mobs after the pull is to use

bloodrage -> taunt -> cleave -> disarm/sunder armor -> cleave -> repeat

Since I can hit up to 4 mobs with cleave, I have no trouble holding
their aggro. Usually when the mob attacks spell caster, I can run over
to get its attention with

taunt -> cleave -> disarm/sunder armor -> cleave -> repeat


which will add him to my group of mobs. If I can't run over, I usually
ask the spell caster to kite her mob over to where I am or have her
standing behind me. Then when her mob came in range, he will be cleaved
and joined the we-hate-warrior club.

my warrior is a DW fury spec. He was able to build up rage quick
against the mob. Bloodrage helps to get a good kickstart since healer
is there to heal.
 
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porl a écrit :
> Would that work in a 5 man party in Scholomance? With casters casting

> silence and summoning mobs? Plus the additional dangers of runners?
>

Of course not, I want to try, but they never let me :p

At least it would work a bit better than a Leeroy pull!
 
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I mean Davian, when I mentioned Christian in my post about warrior
using defensive stance in instances.

mea culpa
 
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Are you nuts? Guess you're talking about fighting murlocs near the
newbie area. Try that with elite groups at or around your level. You
REALLY want to pull them one or two at a time
 
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"Cyde Weys" <cyde@umd.edu> wrote in message
news:Xns965EA36762C772galopagosterrapincy@199.45.49.11...
> It didn't help that I wasn't the puller.

Hunters shouldn't pull. The fact that you insist on pulling reflects more
poorly on the class than anything else you did.
 
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wolfing wrote:
> Are you nuts? Guess you're talking about fighting murlocs near the
> newbie area. Try that with elite groups at or around your level. You
> REALLY want to pull them one or two at a time

Why pull one or two at a time when you can pull 5 or 6 together and
still win in the approximate same amount of time?

I'm serious up to a certain point, of course. Up to and including
Zul'Farak, actually. I play holy priest, and I'm bored with shooting
the wand and finishing fights with 95% of my mana (in case of a "bad"
pull or patrol) while every other caster drinks, that's the point. So
bring it on, pull them all, much quicker, and much more fun for
everyone, just make sure everybody use area of effect attacks like
crazy :)
 
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Christian Stauffer a écrit :
> "wolfing" <wolfing1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Are you nuts? Guess you're talking about fighting murlocs near the
> > newbie area. Try that with elite groups at or around your level.
You
> > REALLY want to pull them one or two at a time
>
> One or two at a time?? A good balanced team (both by classes, and by
> skills) is able to take down a minimum of 1 elite mob of their level
> PER MEMBER with no problem.
>
> And, as sick as babes strategy may sound,
> a) it kills like hell -> the faster the battle is over, the better
> b) it gives a near 100% certainity of not letting the healing draw
> aggro

I vote b) for the win, but that's just me!

> c) it involves tanking by a hunter (and his pet) and a shaman, both
> together should have enough armor/health to do the job that's
> usually done by one single warrior

Errr... I never talked about the pet ;)

Nah, the pet should just be on eye of the beast exploring around and
pulling the remaining monsters in the instance :)


> I don't think it's the safest or fastest (downtime!) way, but I
> guess it's a working (and funny) one.
>
> Chris

Well, downtime is better. I think. Because when the mage needs to
drink, so does the priest, the druid, etc, even the warrior needs a
drink or two to relax. So you get one full downtime instead of 2-3
where only the mage is down.

But I concur on the fun part. Just make sure the
shaman/warlock/paladin/druid/hunter/rogue has the wipe recovery tools
at hand :)
 
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Christian Stauffer wrote:
> >
> > Wrong, I have being doing SM as an 39 - 40th lvl warrior who had no
> > problem holding aggro.
>
> Ok :) Let's say he didn't hold aggro, so I tanked, what made his
> decision to go aggressive/berserk ok in the end :)
>

How big is your group? Do you have another healer? Your method makes
sense if there is another healer do the healing... Which obviously you
do from the last statement you have made. Then tank away.

Though it is understand that warrior goes defensive stance in
instances, if you and the warrior have been working together before and
know what parts to play, then it work well too.

Doing SM make me realize how annoy pally is with their 3x heal. Yes, I
heard and read about it. But never really experience it until the SM.


> > Our group consisted of
> >
> > rogue
> > warrior
> > druid
>
> Ah, the unbeatable trio :)
>

:) Concur - personally, I agree that this is an ideal size for
instance run, plenty of excitement to pass around


> > It is harder to hold aggro in battle stance than in defense stance
> > because warrior only had challenge shout (that can be used in all
> > stances) which is an AoE with 10 minutes cool down. Like Christian
> > said, my warrior is in defense mode in the instance in order to use
> > taunt (10s cooldown).
>
> I see.
>

Correction, there is also that Mocking Strikes availabe only in battle
stance. It function like taunt when hit, but it also has a long cool
down period.


> > My tactic for holding a mobs after the pull is to use
> >
> > bloodrage -> taunt -> cleave -> disarm/sunder armor -> cleave ->
repeat
>
> Looks quite like I do it: Pull with wrath + moonfire + fairie fire
(the
> latter two are instants) -> Shift to bear -> demoralizing roar to
grab
> aggro from those mobs i didn't harm yet, cleave to build up more
aggro. I
> only use taunt if a mob attacks a clothwearer or a rogue.
>

Our group, rogue do the pulling, then I played interceptor to hold
their aggro before they get too close to sense the tasty druid.

Good point, I forget to mention the use of Demoralizing Shout because
it only worked 50% of the time in the instance, not a sure bet like
taunt or cleave. But it does lower their attack powers which is the
primary reason I used rather as a tool to grab aggro.


>
> I figured that a while ago, too :). And I have thorns on me (15
damage
> dealt when someone hits me), that's a good thing to build up hate
too.
>
> Until about a month ago, I casted thorns on everyone in the party,
just
> like I buffed them with MOTW. Then I read somewhere that thorns is
not
> there to actually do damage, but to build up aggro, and I thought
> "damn, of course, why the hell didn't I figure that out by myself?".
> Since I cast thorns only on myself and the warrior(s), it made it a
> good piece easier to hold aggro :eek:)
>

Another good point, thanks for pointing it out, I need to let my druid
know about this. We are so used to buff everyone with the Mark of the
Wild & Thorn automatically upon enter an instance.


>
> Taunt -> 5 seconds of hitting -> bash (that's usually enough to keep
its
> attention for a while :)
>

then it lost interests on you and focused on the rogue, how rude. :)


>
> > my warrior is a DW fury spec. He was able to build up rage quick
> > against the mob. Bloodrage helps to get a good kickstart since
healer
> > is there to heal.
>
> Is bloodrage the skill that converts health to rage? I didn't even
buy
> the druids representation of this ability, because I thought it's not
> very useful. Do you use it a lot? I guess I should give it a try,
> because my standard party is having more than enough healing power :)
>

Yes. I used bloodrage a lot in defense mode because it quickly gives
you enough rages to get off that first cleave within 5 sec of battle.
And once, everyone start hitting on you, its easy to get rages points
:)
 
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"Cyde Weys" <cyde@umd.edu> wrote in message
news:Xns965EE829B4FAE2galopagosterrapincy@199.45.49.11...
> I never had a problem with my pet in Dire Maul. Those guys don't fear
> or run away, though. And the groups of mobs are better separated. I
> always pull in Dire Maul. In Scholomance, there's enough humanoid
> enemies that rogues need to pull for sapping purposes.

I don't really know why you insist on pulling. Apart from feign death (which
isn't a guaranteed get out) there's no advantage in a hunter pulling
especially in a tight area like Scholomance where you're unlikely to need to
utilise a 41 yard range. A warrior throwing a brick will aggro the required
mobs just the same and it's pretty easy to know which other mobs are going
to come along as well.

You're much more likley to want the Mage to pull by sheeping a caster or
silence, the rogue to pull by sapping or the warrior to pull by charging and
shield bashing a caster when the other two aren't available, or a warlock to
banish or a Druid to sleep (in UBRS for instance).

I used to believe the myth that hunters were the natural pullers, and insist
on doing it, but I got over it and almost never do it now. I do sometimes
pull from the mobs the warrior pulled, but that's with the understanding of
the party for CC purposes.
 
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> The owner of a Druid who continues to out-tank every warrior they
> group with, and a retired hunter :)

Yeah, uh huh. What level is this druid?

In Dire Bear form I have over 9K amor self-buffed and a 15% crit rate
and even I'd prefer to let a Warrior be MT. Warriors have Block, Parry
and a host of other tools that make them better suited to the job.
Anyone playing a driuid that says they can out tank "every Warrior" is
just being an arrogant prick.

I'm not saying we can't tank. We can and do it well, if (and only if)
we have the equipment for it. (Don't go thinking all that sta/int/spi
gear does you any good while tanking.) We're just better suited to MA
or 3rd tank (in raids) when we do.

Regards,
Noal

--
Dharzhak - Night Elf Druid (60) on Stormrage [PvE]
 

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"porl" <porlp@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:3fdio8F77ln6U1@individual.net...
>
> "Cyde Weys" <cyde@umd.edu> wrote in message
> news:Xns965EE829B4FAE2galopagosterrapincy@199.45.49.11...
>> I never had a problem with my pet in Dire Maul. Those guys don't fear
>> or run away, though. And the groups of mobs are better separated. I
>> always pull in Dire Maul. In Scholomance, there's enough humanoid
>> enemies that rogues need to pull for sapping purposes.
>
> I don't really know why you insist on pulling. Apart from feign death
> (which isn't a guaranteed get out) there's no advantage in a hunter
> pulling especially in a tight area like Scholomance where you're unlikely
> to need to utilise a 41 yard range. A warrior throwing a brick will aggro
> the required mobs just the same and it's pretty easy to know which other
> mobs are going to come along as well.
>
> You're much more likley to want the Mage to pull by sheeping a caster or
> silence, the rogue to pull by sapping or the warrior to pull by charging
> and shield bashing a caster when the other two aren't available, or a
> warlock to banish or a Druid to sleep (in UBRS for instance).
>
> I used to believe the myth that hunters were the natural pullers, and
> insist on doing it, but I got over it and almost never do it now. I do
> sometimes pull from the mobs the warrior pulled, but that's with the
> understanding of the party for CC purposes.
I believe that a Hunter will want to pull because in solo play it's careful
/ skilful pulling that makes life easy for them. This translates to group
play 'sometimes', so long as your tank is worthy of the name and can gain
aggro. That said, nuking (aimed shot) with your pull shot is something that
I've seen lots, and been guilty of, then you wonder why the 'useless' tank
isn't drawing it off you and the beastie is eating your face. Using a hunter
to mark targets is very very useful, using a hunter to pull, sometimes good,
sometimes bad.

The comments I've seen (paraphrased):

Warrior: I need to pull to get it's aggro - Not entirely true
Hunter: I must pull cos I can mark - No no no, the 2 are not joined at the
hip
Warrior: Stop that pet getting aggro!! - Whyyyyyy?
Hunter: but fire traps do damage, ice sux! - Riiiight, ok. Frozen mobs =
less things kicking our faces in
Warrior: But defensive stance does no damage - Ooooh, ok, let get the mage
to tank shall we? or the priest maybe...
Hunter: ...but pet defensive makes it easier for me - Yah, 1 wipe coming up
Warrior (to a druid): How did you get all those mods to attack you? - You've
heard of Talents right?

My point is it's it's easy to be passable at a class, any class, but KNOWING
our class and it's limits sets you apart. A good hunter and a good tank
means you don't really need to worry who pull, they can both do the job and
help everyone else stay on there cloth wearing feet.

Alex
The owner of a Druid who continues to out-tank every warrior they group
with, and a retired hunter :)
--
If life had the equivalent of
IDDQD
IDKFA
....I'd maybe go outside, maybe
 
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> Is bloodrage the skill that converts health to rage? I didn't
> even buy the druids representation of this ability, because
> I thought it's not very useful.

*blink*

It's not useful if you're never in bear form. If you are, it's mission
critical. Hell, since ours just slightly lowers armor temporarily, it's
arguably even better than the warrrior's one.

No rage = no bash, no maul, no taunt, no feral charge, no discouraging
roar and especially no regeneration. Without rage, you might as well
just stand there and whack them with a stick.

Regards,
Noal

--
Dharzhak - Night Elf Druid (60) on Stormrage [PvE]
Kemwer - Tauren Warrior (21) on Stormrage [PvE]
 
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I didn't spend that much time in ST, but I did the tanking bear gig,
backing up a paladin, when I did. Most of it was fine, but I got my ass
kicked hard by the end boss dragons. We won, but it was damned close.

Oh, and I got to tank UBRS on Saturday. That was something. I join a
raid organized by another guild that ours is building a good
relationship with. (For doing MC runs together and so forth) I join
up, fully expecting to be a healer, and I see 3 priest a warrior and
the paladin from my guild that invited me in the first place. So I
leave on my feral gear and offer to tank instead. Things go reasonably
well and we get to the General and his two henchmen. The warrior is to
MT the general, the warlock fears one of the henchmen and I MT the one
left over and the paladin helps me as MA. We take out the first
henchman, I chase down the second one and halfway through that, the
paladin dies. We get the 2nd henchman and I pop out of bear form, rez
the paladin, go back down into bear and charge the General. The General
kills the paladin and then me after I taunted the General off the
warrior when he was close to going down himself. The warrior stays
alive as the healers are (as they are supposed to) concentrating on
keeing him alive. The General goes down and we had a successful raid.

While I've seen UBRS runs that were more dominating, we had a good run
and I was happy with how it went. Tanking in Baron and Scholo runs is
MUCH easier. Short of anything in MC, I'm pretty sure the General is an
order of magnitude more of an ass kicker than anything else in an
instance.

Regards,
Noal

--
Dharzhak - Night Elf Druid (60) on Stormrage [PvE]
Kemwer - Tauren Warrior (21) on Stormrage [PvE]
 
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"Alex" <assetsinc@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Alex
> The owner of a Druid who continues to out-tank every warrior they group
> with, and a retired hunter :)

BTW: Yesterday, I did the armory in SM with a Warrior and a Shaman, who
I happen to group with often. Even though we played very tactically, that
means good pulling, exactly timed stuns etc, I've never seen the warrior
immediatly pull a mob from the shaman (who did the healing).
As druid in bear form, I currently have 2 abilities for doing this: One
makes 1 single mob immediately attack me and doesn't cost any rage (and
has a 10 seconds cooldoown), the other one makes alle nearby mobs
immediately attack me, costs about 15 rage and is on a big cooldown.
Don't warriors have anything like this, or do I just happen with
warriors who don't use it? Would really confuse me...

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (44) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (29) on DE Proudmoore [PvE]
 
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"Christian Stauffer" <wildcard666@bluewin.ch> wrote in message
news:4291c01d$0$1148$5402220f@news.sunrise.ch...
> "Alex" <assetsinc@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Alex
> > The owner of a Druid who continues to out-tank every warrior they group
> > with, and a retired hunter :)
>
> BTW: Yesterday, I did the armory in SM with a Warrior and a Shaman, who
> I happen to group with often. Even though we played very tactically, that
> means good pulling, exactly timed stuns etc, I've never seen the warrior
> immediatly pull a mob from the shaman (who did the healing).
> As druid in bear form, I currently have 2 abilities for doing this: One
> makes 1 single mob immediately attack me and doesn't cost any rage (and
> has a 10 seconds cooldoown), the other one makes alle nearby mobs
> immediately attack me, costs about 15 rage and is on a big cooldown.
> Don't warriors have anything like this, or do I just happen with
> warriors who don't use it? Would really confuse me...
>


Warriors get the single target taunt around level 10. I'm not sure when they
get AE taunt, but I'm sure they get it at some point. Costs rage and has a
big cooldown, etc. Taunt can only be used from defensive stance though. So
I would guess that is what the problem is. They're probably trying to play
in some other stance because they don't like the "-10% melee damage dealt"
modifier on defensive.

Sooner or later, they will probably have to learn that a tanks most important
job is taking hits, not doing damage. If they were EQ veterans, they would
know it already ;)

--
Davian / Dearic (Bloodhoof)

"We need a new Mario game, where you rescue the princess in the first ten
minutes, and for the rest of the game you try and push down that sick feeling
in your stomach that she's "damaged goods"... When Peach asks you, in the
quiet of her mushroom castle bedroom "do you still love me?" you pretend to be
asleep. You press the A button rhythmically, to control your breath, keep it
even." - Joey Comeau on increased realism in gaming.
 
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Would that work in a 5 man party in Scholomance? With casters casting
silence and summoning mobs? Plus the additional dangers of runners?


"Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116852057.384492.64040@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...



I've yet to really see the point in pulling tactics. From my (priestly)
point of view, the best pulling tactic is to have someone do some kind
of big AOE attack. That way all the mobs are in one place with one
enemy that I can heal easily without having to worry about drawing
aggro.

A shaman is great for this. I've yet to see a better tank, even
warriors couldn't compete. Chain Lightning/Fire Nova totem/magma
totem/rockbiter while I heal, the hunter spams multishots, the warrior
whirlwinds and demo shouts in berzerk stance, and the mage blizzards
and cones of cold. The shaman is near certain to keep all mobs on him,
and the fight ends quicker than my first time ;)

Finesse is for sissies :p
 
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"Davian" <davian@nospammindspring.com> wrote:

> Warriors get the single target taunt around level 10.

Hrm, I should really play my level 16 warrior alt from time to time :)

> I'm not sure when they
> get AE taunt, but I'm sure they get it at some point. Costs rage and has a
> big cooldown, etc. Taunt can only be used from defensive stance though. So
> I would guess that is what the problem is. They're probably trying to play
> in some other stance because they don't like the "-10% melee damage dealt"
> modifier on defensive.

Ah, thanks for the info. I didn't consider the stances thingie :)

> Sooner or later, they will probably have to learn that a tanks most important
> job is taking hits, not doing damage. If they were EQ veterans, they would
> know it already ;)

The warrior I grouped with is not to blame, as he was 40 and I was 44.
As it would've been hard for him to hold aggro, I did the pulling and main
tanking anyway and it was a good decision from him to use aggressive or
berserk stance, because we didn't have another dedicated damage dealer :eek:)

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (44) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (29) on DE Proudmoore [PvE]
 
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<dharzhak@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1116869838.571806.203760@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> The owner of a Druid who continues to out-tank every warrior they
>> group with, and a retired hunter :)
>
> Yeah, uh huh. What level is this druid?
>
> In Dire Bear form I have over 9K amor self-buffed and a 15% crit rate
> and even I'd prefer to let a Warrior be MT. Warriors have Block, Parry
> and a host of other tools that make them better suited to the job.
> Anyone playing a driuid that says they can out tank "every Warrior" is
> just being an arrogant prick.
>
> I'm not saying we can't tank. We can and do it well, if (and only if)
> we have the equipment for it. (Don't go thinking all that sta/int/spi
> gear does you any good while tanking.) We're just better suited to MA
> or 3rd tank (in raids) when we do.

Yeah...took my alt hunter to Sunken Temple last night, with a
rogue and 2 druids. We were a slightly higher-level than the
dungeon, and the 2 druids switched out on tanking/healing. In
a couple of places both tanked, switching out mid-fight (thank
you for your sacrifice, pet).

It was definately possible and fun. It was definately NOT as
"efficient" as a warrior/healer combo. But then again, all of
those are in BRD/BRS :).
 
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"Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Of course not, I want to try, but they never let me :p

I bet your guildmates would :eek:)

> At least it would work a bit better than a Leeroy pull!

/yell LLLLLEEEERRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYY

I fell from the chair when someone yelled this yesterday while
I was waiting for the zeppelin in Orgrimmar :eek:)

Sometimes, when it occurs that I'm part of a raid, I use to do
suicidal attacks when the frontiers are stuck (= no side makes
a serious attempt to advance) and I spot a wounded target
within the enemy troops: I run towards it, spamming moonfire
and hoping he dies before I do. I guess LLLLEEERRROOOOYYYY will
replace "FOR THE HORDE!" as my battlecry for stuff like this :)

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (44) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (29) on DE Proudmoore [PvE]
 

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