I see why hunters have such a bad reputation

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Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

>>Then why did Blizzard make us the pulling class, huh?
>
> I'm sorry, but what exactly did Blizzard do to make Hunters
> the pulling class besides saying "Hunters are the pulling
> class!"?

People would find their zen moment a lot sooner if they stopped
listening to the BCMs. Those of us that came from D2 know better than
to listen to anything that comes from them. Blizzard makes great games,
but are gawd awful and telling people how to play them.

The only saving grace of the hunter class is the Freezing Trap. No
other class has a CC that can affect any type of mob. Beyond that, they
have nothing that isn't duplicated elsewhere.

Regards,
Noal

 

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"collection2002" <linch9@gmail.com> wrote:
> Christian Stauffer wrote:
>
> /snipe
>
>>
>> The warrior I grouped with is not to blame, as he was 40 and I was
> 44.
>> As it would've been hard for him to hold aggro, I did the pulling and
> main
>> tanking anyway and it was a good decision from him to use aggressive
> or
>> berserk stance, because we didn't have another dedicated damage
> dealer )
>>
>
> Wrong, I have being doing SM as an 39 - 40th lvl warrior who had no
> problem holding aggro.

Ok Let's say he didn't hold aggro, so I tanked, what made his
decision to go aggressive/berserk ok in the end

> Our group consisted of
>
> rogue
> warrior
> druid

Ah, the unbeatable trio

> It is harder to hold aggro in battle stance than in defense stance
> because warrior only had challenge shout (that can be used in all
> stances) which is an AoE with 10 minutes cool down. Like Christian
> said, my warrior is in defense mode in the instance in order to use
> taunt (10s cooldown).

I see.

> My tactic for holding a mobs after the pull is to use
>
> bloodrage -> taunt -> cleave -> disarm/sunder armor -> cleave -> repeat

Looks quite like I do it: Pull with wrath + moonfire + fairie fire (the
latter two are instants) -> Shift to bear -> demoralizing roar to grab
aggro from those mobs i didn't harm yet, cleave to build up more aggro. I
only use taunt if a mob attacks a clothwearer or a rogue.

> Since I can hit up to 4 mobs with cleave, I have no trouble holding
> their aggro.

I figured that a while ago, too . And I have thorns on me (15 damage
dealt when someone hits me), that's a good thing to build up hate too.

Until about a month ago, I casted thorns on everyone in the party, just
like I buffed them with MOTW. Then I read somewhere that thorns is not
there to actually do damage, but to build up aggro, and I thought
"damn, of course, why the hell didn't I figure that out by myself?".
Since I cast thorns only on myself and the warrior(s), it made it a
good piece easier to hold aggro )

> Usually when the mob attacks spell caster, I can run over
> to get its attention with
>
> taunt -> cleave -> disarm/sunder armor -> cleave -> repeat

Taunt -> 5 seconds of hitting -> bash (that's usually enough to keep its
attention for a while

> which will add him to my group of mobs. If I can't run over, I usually
> ask the spell caster to kite her mob over to where I am or have her
> standing behind me. Then when her mob came in range, he will be cleaved
> and joined the we-hate-warrior club.

Hehe.

> my warrior is a DW fury spec. He was able to build up rage quick
> against the mob. Bloodrage helps to get a good kickstart since healer
> is there to heal.

Is bloodrage the skill that converts health to rage? I didn't even buy
the druids representation of this ability, because I thought it's not
very useful. Do you use it a lot? I guess I should give it a try,
because my standard party is having more than enough healing power

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (44) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (29) on DE Proudmoore [PvE]

 

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"wolfing" <wolfing1@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Are you nuts? Guess you're talking about fighting murlocs near the
> newbie area. Try that with elite groups at or around your level. You
> REALLY want to pull them one or two at a time

One or two at a time?? A good balanced team (both by classes, and by
skills) is able to take down a minimum of 1 elite mob of their level
PER MEMBER with no problem.

And, as sick as babes strategy may sound,
a) it kills like hell -> the faster the battle is over, the better
b) it gives a near 100% certainity of not letting the healing draw
aggro
c) it involves tanking by a hunter (and his pet) and a shaman, both
together should have enough armor/health to do the job that's
usually done by one single warrior

I don't think it's the safest or fastest (downtime!) way, but I
guess it's a working (and funny) one.

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (44) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (29) on DE Proudmoore [PvE]

 

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"El Durango" <El_Durango@yah00.c0m> wrote in
news:j6cke.288$3D6.268@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com:

>> A warrior may have to stand there and die, but the rogue should just
>> hit vanish.
>>
> If they have the reagent needed, which they should.
>
> Regarding the main thread, I would say a pet in an instance should at
> all times be in passive mode.

Definitely - exactly what I do.

> If the dungeon has multiple paths,
> where a pet can go a different path, I would dismiss him and whistle
> him back when needed.

I do this too. But sometimes the pathing is just bad and your pet doesn't
something stupid in a wide open room.



--
~ Cyde Weys ~

Mana du vortes, mana du vortes
Aeria gloris, aeria gloris

 

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"Kevin C." <nomail@dot.com> wrote in news:Axfke.20130$J12.4092
@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com:

>
> "Cyde Weys" <cyde@umd.edu> wrote in message
> news:Xns965EA36762C772galopagosterrapincy@199.45.49.11...
>> It didn't help that I wasn't the puller.
>
> Hunters shouldn't pull. The fact that you insist on pulling reflects more
> poorly on the class than anything else you did.

Then why did Blizzard make us the pulling class, huh?



--
~ Cyde Weys ~

Mana du vortes, mana du vortes
Aeria gloris, aeria gloris

 

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"Christian Stauffer" <wildcard666@bluewin.ch> wrote in news:4291e9dc$0$1151
$5402220f@news.sunrise.ch:

> "wolfing" <wolfing1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Are you nuts? Guess you're talking about fighting murlocs near the
>> newbie area. Try that with elite groups at or around your level. You
>> REALLY want to pull them one or two at a time
>
> One or two at a time?? A good balanced team (both by classes, and by
> skills) is able to take down a minimum of 1 elite mob of their level
> PER MEMBER with no problem.

Yeah right! Try doing that in Dire Maul North. The biggest pull is four
ogres and if you don't CC at least one you're almost guaranteed a wipe.


--
~ Cyde Weys ~

Mana du vortes, mana du vortes
Aeria gloris, aeria gloris

 

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On Mon, 23 May 2005 19:03:24 GMT, Cyde Weys <cyde@umd.edu> scribed into the
ether:

>"Kevin C." <nomail@dot.com> wrote in news:Axfke.20130$J12.4092
>@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com:
>
>>
>> "Cyde Weys" <cyde@umd.edu> wrote in message
>> news:Xns965EA36762C772galopagosterrapincy@199.45.49.11...
>>> It didn't help that I wasn't the puller.
>>
>> Hunters shouldn't pull. The fact that you insist on pulling reflects more
>> poorly on the class than anything else you did.
>
>Then why did Blizzard make us the pulling class, huh?

I'm sorry, but what exactly did Blizzard do to make Hunters the pulling
class besides saying "Hunters are the pulling class!"?

Nothing, that's what. There was a period of a few weeks when Hunters really
could pull. You could combine Feign Death with Frost Trap to break linked
spawns in instances. I practiced at it extensively in BRD, and I could
reliably seperate out 1-2 dwarves from those parade ground spawns of 10.
But that got nerfed.

 

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"Brian" <brianmcadam@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:13a4911i2q8pm637liplj3o2qsqv73vg2l@4ax.com...

> So I have to *work* to get aggro. If the mage does a sheep-pull, he's
> highest on the hate list for all the mobs. Which means I have to work
> that
> much harder to keep him alive. If the Hunter pulls, and it gets ugly, he
> can Feign, and lose all (or almost all) of the hate that he had.

AFAIK It's a pretty simple recipe: There is a circumference around the mobs
dictating their aggro range and any other mobs that pass through that circle
are aggroed as well. Except for wandering mobs it's /obvious/ which mobs are
going to come with their annoyed friend. The time when a mage/rogue should
pull is when there is a caster involved that is immediately going to summon
something or silence a Paladin (Scholomance, Stratholme, etc). The time when
a Warrior should pull is when there is a mob or collection of mobs with a
non-casting damage effect, or a bunch of non-elites that need a good AOE
session from the mage.. A good time for a hunter to pull is either when they
want to exploit the Evade "expoit" if they dare, or to hit a caster from a
distance and scoot round a corner to force the casters to come to the party
for a shield bashing or a sleeping. But the best time is when someone else
has already pulled and they re-pull one of the mobs away into a trap as CC.

There is no guarantee Feign is going to work, unfortunately. Sure, the
hunter can take the hit and accept a rez, but it's expensive and pointless.
IMO Hunters really are best at sustained damage, crowd control and
off-tanking and that's it. Trying to be something else that we don't have
the facilities to be is desperate.

What it would be nice to have is a decent pulling shot. Something that only
we can use to seperate mobs, to draw individual mobs near, away from their
mates. It would make us invaluable. But we don't and the game isn't designed
to allow anyonr to do that, aside from the previously mentioned exploit bug
which many hunters don't know about, is dangerous and probably considered
illegal by Blizzard.

 

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Christian Stauffer wrote:
>
> > Doing SM make me realize how annoy pally is with their 3x heal.
Yes, I
> > heard and read about it. But never really experience it until the
SM.
>
> Hehe. As I said, we worked quite good together on them. As soon as
they
> tried to heal themselves, either the shaman purged them or I or the
> warrior stunned them. Works well with mages, too
>

You or warrior stunned them, how does the warrior stun it? I can't
believe that I have overlooked that skill/talent. Wait, unless you mean
that Daze Shout (not sure the name, but the effect is that the shout
will stun nearby opponents for 6 or 4 seconds) from warrior's fury
talent, then I'm still working toward it.

 

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Christian Stauffer a écrit :
> "collection2002" <linch9@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > You or warrior stunned them
>
> I have bash, 2 seconds stun in bear form, 1 minute cooldown.
>
> > how does the warrior stun it? I can't
> > believe that I have overlooked that skill/talent. Wait, unless you
mean
> > that Daze Shout (not sure the name, but the effect is that the
shout
> > will stun nearby opponents for 6 or 4 seconds) from warrior's fury
> > talent, then I'm still working toward it.
>
> As the warrior was a tauren, it could be he used his racial ability,
> which stuns all nearby enemies for a second or two. Although I'm
quite
> sure he used another talent.
>
> Chris

Three warrior talents stun:
_Concussive blow (require 20 in protection) = next melee (instant on
test realms), stun for 5 secs, 45secs cooldown, 15 rage
_Improved Revenge (require 10 in protection) = gives Revenge a 40%
chance to stun for 3 seconds.
_Mace specialization (require 20 in arms) = your attacks have up to 6%
chance to stun for 3 seconds.

 

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Babe Bridou wrote:
>
> Three warrior talents stun:
> _Concussive blow (require 20 in protection) = next melee (instant on
> test realms), stun for 5 secs, 45secs cooldown, 15 rage
> _Improved Revenge (require 10 in protection) = gives Revenge a 40%
> chance to stun for 3 seconds.
> _Mace specialization (require 20 in arms) = your attacks have up to
6%
> chance to stun for 3 seconds.

merci vraiment

Woot, I have to build up 2 more warriors to specialize in other talents
tree. Ha, I thought the stun from Mace specialization was a Rogue only
talent. But now that I know, I have to build myself a dual-mace
wielding human specialized in arms and a dwarf human specialized in
protection.

is it 5 o'clock yet?

 

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<dharzhak@my-deja.com> wrote:

>> Is bloodrage the skill that converts health to rage? I didn't
>> even buy the druids representation of this ability, because
>> I thought it's not very useful.
>
> *blink*
>
> It's not useful if you're never in bear form. If you are, it's mission
> critical. Hell, since ours just slightly lowers armor temporarily, it's
> arguably even better than the warrrior's one.

Now that sound like I should get my hairy ass to TB and buy it ASAP. Pity
I only have 25s atm and owe 7g to a guildmate Thanks for the advice!

> No rage = no bash, no maul, no taunt, no feral charge, no discouraging
> roar and especially no regeneration.

With talents + gear, I get 15 rage when shifting to bear form. That's why
I regularly shift in & out in battle. But I guess that bloodrage thingie
is something I really should have.

> Without rage, you might as well
> just stand there and whack them with a stick.

That's what I'm doing when I'm not in bear form )

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (45) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (29) on DE Proudmoore [PvE]

 

[alex]

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

<dharzhak@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1116869838.571806.203760@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> The owner of a Druid who continues to out-tank every warrior they
>> group with, and a retired hunter
>
> Yeah, uh huh. What level is this druid?
>
> In Dire Bear form I have over 9K amor self-buffed and a 15% crit rate
> and even I'd prefer to let a Warrior be MT. Warriors have Block, Parry
> and a host of other tools that make them better suited to the job.
> Anyone playing a driuid that says they can out tank "every Warrior" is
> just being an arrogant prick.
>
> I'm not saying we can't tank. We can and do it well, if (and only if)
> we have the equipment for it. (Don't go thinking all that sta/int/spi
> gear does you any good while tanking.) We're just better suited to MA
> or 3rd tank (in raids) when we do.
>
> Regards,
> Noal
>
> --
> Dharzhak - Night Elf Druid (60) on Stormrage [PvE]
>

Ah, you miss understand me, I'm not being an "arrogant prick", I just have
never found a player that, at my lvl (46), can actually tank. By this I mean
gather up the enemies, keep them aggro'ed and stop them pounding the cloth.
It's players who fail in this role, not the class. I FULLY understand that a
warrior who knows his stuff will out tank me, I've just yet to find one

I'd rather heal, but with a warrior who can't tank, I've invariable got a
mob is my face seconds later. May as well leave the warrior in battle mode
and do it myself, that way I'm the only one who needs healing, and I can do
that myself.

Alex

 

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"collection2002" <linch9@gmail.com> wrote:

> Christian Stauffer wrote:
>> >
>> > Wrong, I have being doing SM as an 39 - 40th lvl warrior who had no
>> > problem holding aggro.
>>
>> Ok Let's say he didn't hold aggro, so I tanked, what made his
>> decision to go aggressive/berserk ok in the end
>>
>
> How big is your group? Do you have another healer?

We had a healing specced shaman, who did the healing.

When I want to deal damage, I either nuke (which is dangerous in
such a small party because a decreased mana pool means less reserves
for emergencies) or shift to bear. And when I'm in bear form, there
is no real need for the warrior to do a lot of tanking. So it was
good he increased the damage output by going aggressive

> Though it is understand that warrior goes defensive stance in
> instances, if you and the warrior have been working together before and
> know what parts to play, then it work well too.

Indeed

> Doing SM make me realize how annoy pally is with their 3x heal. Yes, I
> heard and read about it. But never really experience it until the SM.

Hehe. As I said, we worked quite good together on them. As soon as they
tried to heal themselves, either the shaman purged them or I or the
warrior stunned them. Works well with mages, too

> Good point, I forget to mention the use of Demoralizing Shout because
> it only worked 50% of the time in the instance, not a sure bet like
> taunt or cleave.

Hrm... I never found it not working yet, I'll keep an eye on it in the
future.

> Another good point, thanks for pointing it out, I need to let my druid
> know about this. We are so used to buff everyone with the Mark of the
> Wild & Thorn automatically upon enter an instance.

Yeah, I used to do the same. Now I only give thorns to those who are
supposed to tank.

>> Taunt -> 5 seconds of hitting -> bash (that's usually enough to keep
> its
>> attention for a while
>>
>
> then it lost interests on you and focused on the rogue, how rude.

Depends ) When people follow my advice and all of them hit the same
mob, it's no problem for me to keep the other ones on me using cleave.
If everyone picks a mob on his own, it's nearly impossible.

>> Is bloodrage the skill that converts health to rage? I didn't even
> buy
>> the druids representation of this ability, because I thought it's not
>> very useful. Do you use it a lot? I guess I should give it a try,
>> because my standard party is having more than enough healing power
>
> Yes. I used bloodrage a lot in defense mode because it quickly gives
> you enough rages to get off that first cleave within 5 sec of battle.
> And once, everyone start hitting on you, its easy to get rages points
>

Ok, I'll buy it the next time I'm in Thunderbluff. Thanks!

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (45) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (29) on DE Proudmoore [PvE]

 

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"Alex" <assetsinc@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Ah, you miss understand me, I'm not being an "arrogant prick", I just have
> never found a player that, at my lvl (46), can actually tank. By this I mean
> gather up the enemies, keep them aggro'ed and stop them pounding the cloth.
> It's players who fail in this role, not the class. I FULLY understand that a
> warrior who knows his stuff will out tank me, I've just yet to find one
>
> I'd rather heal, but with a warrior who can't tank, I've invariable got a
> mob is my face seconds later. May as well leave the warrior in battle mode
> and do it myself, that way I'm the only one who needs healing, and I can do
> that myself.

Sad but true. I made the exactly same experience so far. I did armory
yesterday to help a 36 and a 38 warrior getting some stuff from herod. A 40
shamen joined us. I switched to my healer gear and focused on healing and
support. The 36 warrior, even though 8 levels beyond me, was the 1st warrior
I met so far who watched my back and pulled the enemies away from me when
I took too much aggro. And he even succeeded by using taunts and stuff.
I've never seen a warrior using taunts before. And I can't count the times I
did the SM instances with pickup groups.

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (45) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (29) on DE Proudmoore [PvE]

 

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"collection2002" <linch9@gmail.com> wrote:

> You or warrior stunned them

I have bash, 2 seconds stun in bear form, 1 minute cooldown.

> how does the warrior stun it? I can't
> believe that I have overlooked that skill/talent. Wait, unless you mean
> that Daze Shout (not sure the name, but the effect is that the shout
> will stun nearby opponents for 6 or 4 seconds) from warrior's fury
> talent, then I'm still working toward it.

As the warrior was a tauren, it could be he used his racial ability,
which stuns all nearby enemies for a second or two. Although I'm quite
sure he used another talent.

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (45) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (29) on DE Proudmoore [PvE]

 

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> Every time I've tried to do Tribute, the main tank got MS'd, and
> the healer couldn't cope with the spike. Main Tank down, and
> we wipe.

The tank needs to be a Protection Specced warrior with Last Stand to
pull through easily. That said, the Priest can slap a Power Word:
Shield on the tank and then start cranking out the jams. The druid has
to try to fight thorugh it and battle rez the warrior if he fails. If
you're repeatedly wiping, there's a problem that needs to be addressed.

> The worst I've ever seen, though, was War Master Voone, in LBRS.
> MS for 3k, Throw Axe for 1700, back to back.

Crits do happen.

> I'm sorry, I don't *have* 4700 HP

That's a problem and it should be addressed. When I'm in my tanking
gear, I have 9K+ armor and about 4900 HPs. I can make some gear swaps
and give up about 1K armor for another ~750 HPs. Warriors and Paladins
should be around 7K armor in sheild & 1H and have at least 5K HPs at
level 60. Tanking is all about gear and player skill.

As for the aforementioned group of 3 druids & 2 rogues, that really
depends on being specced (balance Druids need not apply) & geared
properly (new 60s should be doing raids instances on the other
continent) and making proper use of the 3 available battle rezzes
(healer rezzes a fallen tank and drops to bear while the fallen tank
comes up and heals).

Regards,
Noal

 

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Doc wrote:
> collection2002 <linch9@gmail.com> stared blankly into space for a
> short while before writing:
> > Woot, I have to build up 2 more warriors to specialize in other
> > talents tree. Ha, I thought the stun from Mace specialization was a
> > Rogue only talent. But now that I know, I have to build myself a
> > dual-mace wielding human specialized in arms and a dwarf human
> > specialized in protection.
>
> A Dwarf Human?
>
> CRIKEY!
>

What? You haven't read Babe's post about the RP in his PvP realm? Such
a n00b

okay, technically, dwarf warrior, er, no time for logic check when ???
boss come down the aisle.

 

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geronimo wrote:

> you're saying that a class that can pull from a distance, wears mail, can
> mark a target for all to see, have a CC that affect every mob, have 2
> distinct way to reduce aggro, have feign death to abort a bad pull... should
> not pull !?
>
> Please tell me who should pull then, and WHY ?

x2!!!

(Yay for useful forum-style posts!!!)

 

[Guest]

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geronimo a écrit :
> "Kevin C." <nomail@dot.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
> Axfke.20130$J12.4092@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > "Cyde Weys" <cyde@umd.edu> wrote in message
> > news:Xns965EA36762C772galopagosterrapincy@199.45.49.11...
> > > It didn't help that I wasn't the puller.
> >
> > Hunters shouldn't pull. The fact that you insist on pulling reflects more
> > poorly on the class than anything else you did.
> >
>
> you're saying that a class that can pull from a distance, wears mail, can
> mark a target for all to see, have a CC that affect every mob, have 2
> distinct way to reduce aggro, have feign death to abort a bad pull... should
> not pull !?
>
> Please tell me who should pull then, and WHY ?

The Hunter, then the warrior. There's no reason to not allow the hunter
to pull.

The Hunter pulls well away from the group, if the pull is successfull
(only 4 mobs for example, with one being frozen), the warrior charges,
the hunter and pet disengage/cower, warrior builds aggro. Two distinct
pulls, one to separate mob clusters, one to build rage and aggro. I
don't see any argument that beat that one. Exceptions are:
instances/fights that don't require any kind of safe-pull (waste of
time to pull in two phases) and instances/fights that would be better
dealt with a sap opener.

A bit off-topic, but my favourite leeroy pull is still mind control.

 

[Doc]

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

collection2002 <linch9@gmail.com> stared blankly into space for a
short while before writing:
> Woot, I have to build up 2 more warriors to specialize in other
> talents tree. Ha, I thought the stun from Mace specialization was a
> Rogue only talent. But now that I know, I have to build myself a
> dual-mace wielding human specialized in arms and a dwarf human
> specialized in protection.

A Dwarf Human?

CRIKEY!

--
Doc
Save the Earth, it's the only planet with beer...

 

[geronimo]

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Kevin C." <nomail@dot.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
Axfke.20130$J12.4092@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Cyde Weys" <cyde@umd.edu> wrote in message
> news:Xns965EA36762C772galopagosterrapincy@199.45.49.11...
> > It didn't help that I wasn't the puller.
>
> Hunters shouldn't pull. The fact that you insist on pulling reflects more
> poorly on the class than anything else you did.
>

you're saying that a class that can pull from a distance, wears mail, can
mark a target for all to see, have a CC that affect every mob, have 2
distinct way to reduce aggro, have feign death to abort a bad pull... should
not pull !?

Please tell me who should pull then, and WHY ?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Cyde Weys" <cyde@umd.edu> wrote in message
news:Xns965EA36762C772galopagosterrapincy@199.45.49.11...
> So I was playing really tired last night in a 5-man on Scholomance and I
> wasn't on the top of my game. I see now why hunters have a bad
> reputation. It's very hard to do everything right and it's very easy to
> do one thing wrong when it comes to playing as a hunter. Here are some
> examples:
>
> 1) We are bypassing a group of mobs and the pet takes the long way
> around, aggroing mobs. We wipe.
> 2) We're fighting some mobs and the pet gets feared into another group
> of mobs. We wipe. They were inclined to blame my pet, but it was
> really more the fault of us not using the proper pulling strategies (we
> know what enemies fear, we should engage them somewhere safe).
> 3) The pet gets feared into more enemies and we don't wipe, but it was
> close. Evidently we didn't learn the lesson of #2.

I dont know why they dont just do what everquest (eventually) did and make
pets faction neutral to all mobs.


> 4) The pet chases a fleeing human into a group of more enemies. We
> wipe. See #2 again.

Someone on snares forget to do their job? One way to avoid this is to pull
the mobs well back so you give yourself plenty of room for runners.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Wed, 25 May 2005 14:41:50 +0200, "geronimo" <toto@lulu.com> scribed into
the ether:

>
>"Kevin C." <nomail@dot.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
>Axfke.20130$J12.4092@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>> "Cyde Weys" <cyde@umd.edu> wrote in message
>> news:Xns965EA36762C772galopagosterrapincy@199.45.49.11...
>> > It didn't help that I wasn't the puller.
>>
>> Hunters shouldn't pull. The fact that you insist on pulling reflects more
>> poorly on the class than anything else you did.
>>
>
>you're saying that a class that can pull from a distance,

Something every class but Paladin (and even them, with trinkets) can do.

Meaningless.

> wears mail,

Which is tissue paper compared to plate, and Hunters get no shield like
Shamans do to compensate.

Meaningless.

> can mark a target for all to see,

A lovely tool for enhanced team coordination, but has nothing to do with
the actual act of pulling.

Meaningless.

>have a CC that affect every mob,

Which doesn't require that the hunter himself do the pulling. Freeze trap
works equally well no matter who pulls. Actually, in review, I take that
back...it is actually *better* if someone else pulls, because the lack of
auto-shot for warriors means that they won't hit a frozen mob and break the
CC early the way others can accidently do.

Meaningless.

>have 2 distinct way to reduce aggro,

Neither of which are all that great, nor foolproof (the way say, a rogue
using Vanish is), and nothing in the entire arsenal actually fulfills the
term "pulling" as a term of art rather than the dictionary definition:
There is no way for a Hunter (or anyone else) to pull a single out of a
linked pack.

Meaningless.

>have feign death to abort a bad pull...

Feign Death fails a lot. Every mob in the "bad pull" increases the
likelihood that it will fail. If it fails against one, it fails against
all. Further, "bad pulls" are player issues, not character ones. With
linked spawns, there is not such thing as a bad pull, there are
just...pulls. The player issue is one of bad timing or stupidity; people
AFK, a roamer too close to the group you are pulling and you get the roamer
too, pulling while still fighting something else, pulling while low on
hp/mana or key spells are in cooldown, etc. None of which are in any way
related to being a Hunter.

Meaningless.

> should not pull !?

Correct.

>Please tell me who should pull then, and WHY ?

Warrior/Paladin, because they are going to end up with the aggro anyway, so
why not cut out the middleman? Initial aggro has more meaning than other
aggro does. Having someone else with aggro makes the job of capturing (and
keeping) that aggro that much more difficult for the person who is supposed
to have it. Hunter pulling means hunter taking damage, which means wasting
healer time, targeting, and mana healing someone who shouldn't need it.
Hunters take WAAAAAY more damage than a Warrior/Paladin does on any given
hit, both in the absolute sense and as a fraction of total hp.

Hunter pulling also means mobs put into melee range of hunter, which means
hunter NOT SHOOTING STUFF, which means substantially reduced DPS, which
means stuff lives longer, which puts whole party at risk.

Hunters have a number of ways to greatly facilitate pulling, and to keep
the group safe. Hunter's Mark, your pet, Freeze Trap, these are all
extremely powerful tools when properly utilized. They do not, however, turn
Hunters into pullers, no matter what Blizzard has to say on the issue.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

> the druid or a paly is doing the tanking, you have a point,
> because they can't charge

Feral Specced druids can charge. It's an 11 point talent. However, it's
closer to the warrior's intercept. It costs 5 rage, is usable in
combat, interrupts casting and movement for 4 seconds and has a 15
second cooldown. You can use it to charge into a group, but it's better
suited for attacking a caster that already has aggro or catching
runners.

In higher instances such as UBRS & Strath, I rarely see warriors
charge. Usually pulling is done by warrior using a bow or gun or a mage
casting sheep, a priest casting shackle or a druid casting hibernate on
a key mob,

> The problem with the "hunter shouldn't pull" crowd is that they don't
> really understand what pulling is. Pulling is bringing the mobs to the
> group, in a safe place where you don't need to worry about patrols,
> or fleeing mobs bringing more adds

No, we do get it. We're saying that you don't need a hunter to do it. I
can do a Starfire/Moonfire/drop to Bear Form just as easily as I can
shoot a mob with a bow as a Warrior.

> Unless you insist to to the "Leroy" type of pull, warriors can't pull
> AND charge, and that means 15-21 rage lost. if you let the hunter
> pull, then charge, you can use this rage to build REAL aggro.

No different than a sheep, shackle, hibernate pull except you haven't
removed a mob from the pack. In fact, this is no different than a rogue
pulling. Look, I know the Hunter brochure said you're the pulling
class, but really, your pulling isn't a big deal. It doesn't make you
an invaluable part of the team. I have never been in a group of any
size that said, "Hey! We need a hunter for pulling!"

Your one thing you can point to and say, "This is what makes us
unique!" is Freezing Trap. No other class has a CC that can hit
anything. If I have an open slot to fill and if I choose to fill it
with a hunter versus any other class, that would be why. Certainly not
because you can shoot things and absolutely not because of your pet.

Regards,
Noal