I want my pc to run from pagefile entirely without ram

[warlight]

Before you ask "why would you want that?" I stay determined to do just that!

What I suppose might work:
starting pc with lowest ram module, or somehow setting a memory limit just so the os can boot and the rest must be done with pagefile e.g. 100mb ram, so the system would need another gig of ram on pagefile, and it would be like it's running on just pagefile, but not ENTIRELY!!! now how would a ddr4 ram be limited to just 100mb you might ask? Maybe rip couple of modules of the stick or smthin else idk about.
Or runing with ram module, but removing it after windows loads and pagefile is being used. This would crash the os probaby since it has crucial things in ram, but if I could load windows with minimal stuff in ram, would it be possible?

 

[ss202sl]

You NEED 1GB of ram for Win 10(32-bit)
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-10-specifications

 

[Eximo]

CPUs require ram to work, that is where the instructions are stored prior to using them. On any given CPU the minimum is going to be the minimum size of stick available for a single slot.

Removing memory chips from a memory stick will not work. The system needs that full address width to function.

 

[Wolfshadw]

Computers require system memory. Without it, you won't get past the Power On Self Test (POST), so the best you could do would be to find the smallest RAM module that is compatible with the motherboard you intend to use.

As for ripping RAM modules off the stick, I'm sure that would break the circuit as it's all wired onto the PCB. The smallest DDR4 RAM module on PCPP is 4GB in size.

-Wolf sends

 

[USAFRet]

1. That won't work.

2. Why?

 

[RealBeast]

Teleport back to 1951 and buy a UNIVAC 1, it did not use random access memory. Instead it used mercury delay line tubes to buffer I/O data.

Since then we have made some progress, sadly for you that progress has included using random access memory.

 

[Rogue Leader]

Before you ask "why would you want that?" I stay determined to do just that!

What I suppose might work:
starting pc with lowest ram module, or somehow setting a memory limit just so the os can boot and the rest must be done with pagefile e.g. 100mb ram, so the system would need another gig of ram on pagefile, and it would be like it's running on just pagefile, but not ENTIRELY!!! now how would a ddr4 ram be limited to just 100mb you might ask? Maybe rip couple of modules of the stick or smthin else idk about.
Or runing with ram module, but removing it after windows loads and pagefile is being used. This would crash the os probaby since it has crucial things in ram, but if I could load windows with minimal stuff in ram, would it be possible?

Considering your pasts posts have been "budget limited" we are definitely going to ask WHY, mainly because I find it hard to believe someone budget limited would be able to afford to effectively destroy an "expensive" ddr4 memory module.

There is NO way to do what you want, not only that it is a ridiculously bad idea. If it even worked the system would be ultra slow as even a fast SSD would be noticeably performance handicapped, and I know you aren't running that. Yanking a ram module out is just as bad of an idea, aside from the fact you could just damage it, windows addresses and reserves all system memory upon boot, you yank that out windows crashes.

There is a reason systems work the way they do, because people much smarter than you or I have designed them to work as such. Sure innovation is always happening, but this is one that clearly anyone who understands how it all works will tell you is a waste of time and won't work anyway. So we don't care how determined you are, the right thing to do is to tell you its a wrong waste of time.

 

[Smlarkin]

There are some minimal Linnux OS's that need only a few megabytes of RAM. It would be command driven with
no mouse or graphical user interface. Sadly Windows 10 is bloatware that needs a lot of RAM.
You could also use DOS 6.2 if you can find it. It only needs 612k of ram. No graphical user interface here either.

 

[ev3rm0r3]

Even as proof of concept there is absolutely no viable, feasible, practical application or even as a show of effort that could support needing to run a computer/os out of pagefile memory. Page file memory is second nature to ram is only an aid to its primary caching functionality as a hold over buffer. Seriously the admins need to lock this topic or delete it. Waste of everyone's time.

 

[Spinachy]

If you want the challenge of programming a computer that has only a tiny amount of RAM, then buy an Arduino.

Removing a chip from a DDR stick will not work, since the chips are accessed in parallel.

 

[ev3rm0r3]

If you want the challenge of programming a computer that has only a tiny amount of RAM, then buy an Arduino.

Removing a chip from a DDR stick will not work, since the chips are accessed in parallel.

Arduino wouldn't utilize a pagefile. This answer wouldn't apply to the OP's question. Which appears windows based.

 

[bobbybluz]

Do you understand how RAM, the pagefile and hard drives work? I suspect not. I use as much RAM as possible and disable the pagefile. I've held CPU records on PassMark doing this. All you'll do is totally hamstring your PC.

 

[ev3rm0r3]

I've done this since windows XP. Turn off the pagefile and as long as you have enough ram the computer is miles faster. But now days with SSD's being faster with the M.2 craze pushing 3500MB/s over the typical Spin Drive at 40MB/s, well, there really isn't any reason to deal with it at all.

 

[Rogue Leader]

Do you understand how RAM, the pagefile and hard drives work? I suspect not. I use as much RAM as possible and disable the pagefile. I've held CPU records on PassMark doing this. All you'll do is totally hamstring your PC.

I've done this since windows XP. Turn off the pagefile and as long as you have enough ram the computer is miles faster. But now days with SSD's being faster with the M.2 craze pushing 3500MB/s over the typical Spin Drive at 40MB/s, well, there really isn't any reason to deal with it at all.

Just as a side note even though its irrelevant to the original question in this thread, turning off the pagefile in Windows 7 and Windows 10 is a BAD idea. Certain software does not behave properly, and you will get out of memory errors, aside from the fact there is NO speed benefit despite what you may think. This is a well documented behavior.

Either way this is not what the OP is asking and while his idea is really bad, he clearly knows hes not gaining any speed this way.

 

[Karadjgne]

Smallest ram in ddr4 that I know of is 2Gb Sodimm.

But on the other hand I do believe there is a way to portion the ram to be the pagefile if you have enough ram to spare.

Not sure why though. The concept of ram isn't broke, so why try to fix it? All that's being done is transferring pagefile from one set of silicon chips to another.

 

[Colif]

Every windows process needs ram to run, so even if you got past the boot process, its likely you hit out of memory errors real fast. I would hope op has a fast ssd to put page file on as it would be constantly in use. Minimum system requirements for win 7 mean it would likely not even run if you could find 100mb of ram on a stick - 1 gigabyte (GB) RAM (32-bit) or 2 GB RAM (64-bit)

https://support.microsoft.com/en-au/help/10737/windows-7-system-requirements

if it was Win 10, you better off letting windows look after page file as even though it could be as big as installed ram, it will only use what it needs if you manage to fill that ram. I have 16gb ram installed, my page file is 1gb. If you never use all your ram, it never touches page file. Win 10 more likely to compress data in ram than to use page file.

I guess in theory you could get a PC that uses Optane for ram and SSD meaning it is same speed, but I don't think optane ssd are big enough yet to do that.

 

[alsmith]

please explain what the gain or advantage is that you think you'll get by running with no RAM- there must be some reason bouncing round in your head. What is it?

 

[Starcruiser]

There are so many reasons this wouldn't work.
First off, as previously stated, the CPU requires a certain (albeit small) portion of RAM to even start the POST process. Granted that you seem to know that already by stating that you would have some RAM in the system, I should tell you that memory stays addressed as reserved by the CPU during operation.
Second, if you do pass the POST then Windows will try to boot. During the boot process, kernel memory and drivers are reserved in the RAM. It is not possible to move the kernel during operation, though if you custom programmed a small Linux box for yourself you might be able to. Might. Removing the RAM during operation is going to crash it 100% of the time and possibly damage your other components.
Third, even the fastest m.2 PCI-e SSD in RAID is going to pale in comparison to the speed of RAM.

So, with all those limitations in mind, here's how you do it. Again, this will not work with Windows.
Custom press a motherboard and CPU with custom firmware on both.
Custom program a TUI Linux distribution.
Set up a PCI m.2 card that allows RAID and format it for RAID in another computer. Use the best m.2 card available.
Pray that your system turns on at all when you push the power button.
Set up your customized BIOS temporarily using RAM so it POSTs the first time, and allocate disk space in your RAID array as RAM.
Shut down and remove the RAM, then try to boot and install your custom Linux.

 

[USAFRet]

And of course...we've not heard back from the OP in a week.
So....

 

[Starcruiser]

Right, but I thought I would be the one to answer the original question of how it would be possible. No one else suggested anything like I did. Granted, it's an extremely expensive and convoluted solution, but a solution nonetheless.

 

[USAFRet]

Right, but I thought I would be the one to answer the original question of how it would be possible. No one else suggested anything like I did. Granted, it's an extremely expensive and convoluted solution, but a solution nonetheless.

I wasn't commenting on yours specifically, but rather the whole thread.
Maybe he'll return and enlighten us as to why he wishes to do this.

 

[warlight]

Guys, most of you if not all, missed the point. I thought I made myself clear enough. Let me explain again.
I don't think there would be any advantage. All I wanted was to play a bit. For me it's not enough to have something that just works and let it be like that. I like to experiment. When I was 2yr old, I tried to fix a car engine, and wouldn't let go for hours until they let me play with it. That's just how I am. So, I want to run windows on page file or something else, located on an ssd, hdd, or whatever, but NO ram. My instant thought is that it can't be done, but I believe anything is possible. My SSD has ram module with 512 DDR3 memory that is used for caching writes to the disk, and I believe it can be used for the OS with no other RAM installed. And even if that wouldn't work, I think using only HDD, or an SSD in any other way, to replace RAM, could actually work. Maybe it would mean a lot of soldering, modifying the motherboard, changing chips, making custom chips, etc... I don't care, I know that if the whole world united to do this, all the engineers, programmers, etc... it could be done.
My idea: make a ram adapter that is plugged in the ram socket, but does not contain any ram. It would be used to enable communication between ram socket and an SSD or HDD that would be connected to the adapter.

NOTE AGAIN THAT I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THIS WILL GIVE ANY PERFORMANCE IMPROVEMENTS: I KNOW THAT THIS IS VERY SILLY. I WANT TO DO JUST THAT! If this isn't clear enough, nothing is.

 

[Rogue Leader]

Guys, most of you if not all, missed the point. I thought I made myself clear enough. Let me explain again.
I don't think there would be any advantage. All I wanted was to play a bit. For me it's not enough to have something that just works and let it be like that. I like to experiment. When I was 2yr old, I tried to fix a car engine, and wouldn't let go for hours until they let me play with it. That's just how I am. So, I want to run windows on page file or something else, located on an ssd, hdd, or whatever, but NO ram. My instant thought is that it can't be done, but I believe anything is possible. My SSD has ram module with 512 DDR3 memory that is used for caching writes to the disk, and I believe it can be used for the OS with no other RAM installed. And even if that wouldn't work, I think using only HDD, or an SSD in any other way, to replace RAM, could actually work. Maybe it would mean a lot of soldering, modifying the motherboard, changing chips, making custom chips, etc... I don't care, I know that if the whole world united to do this, all the engineers, programmers, etc... it could be done.
My idea: make a ram adapter that is plugged in the ram socket, but does not contain any ram. It would be used to enable communication between ram socket and an SSD or HDD that would be connected to the adapter.

NOTE AGAIN THAT I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THIS WILL GIVE ANY PERFORMANCE IMPROVEMENTS: I KNOW THAT THIS IS VERY SILLY. I WANT TO DO JUST THAT! If this isn't clear enough, nothing is.

The point you are missing is sure, anything is possible . But being that its not supported by Windows or other operating systems, what you are asking for (modify motherboard, custom chips, make a "ram adapter") is tremendously complicated to do, requires knowledge far beyond your own or what you will get on a forum, and is absolutely worthless to put any time and effort behind because it provides no benefits for anyone other than your curiosity.

Sure if the whole world united it could be done. But your problem is its a useless exercise that nobody would care to do.

 

[warlight]

There are so many reasons this wouldn't work.
First off, as previously stated, the CPU requires a certain (albeit small) portion of RAM to even start the POST process. Granted that you seem to know that already by stating that you would have some RAM in the system, I should tell you that memory stays addressed as reserved by the CPU during operation.
Second, if you do pass the POST then Windows will try to boot. During the boot process, kernel memory and drivers are reserved in the RAM. It is not possible to move the kernel during operation, though if you custom programmed a small Linux box for yourself you might be able to. Might. Removing the RAM during operation is going to crash it 100% of the time and possibly damage your other components.
Third, even the fastest m.2 PCI-e SSD in RAID is going to pale in comparison to the speed of RAM.

So, with all those limitations in mind, here's how you do it. Again, this will not work with Windows.
Custom press a motherboard and CPU with custom firmware on both.
Custom program a TUI Linux distribution.
Set up a PCI m.2 card that allows RAID and format it for RAID in another computer. Use the best m.2 card available.
Pray that your system turns on at all when you push the power button.
Set up your customized BIOS temporarily using RAM so it POSTs the first time, and allocate disk space in your RAID array as RAM.
Shut down and remove the RAM, then try to boot and install your custom Linux.

You are on the right path, but I want a better solution. Maybe by modifying the bios and the OS it can achieved that the system automatically transfers all of data to the page file and then turns off RAM module so that it can be taken out, or maybe by making an HDD to RAM socket adapter.

 

[warlight]

Guys, most of you if not all, missed the point. I thought I made myself clear enough. Let me explain again.
I don't think there would be any advantage. All I wanted was to play a bit. For me it's not enough to have something that just works and let it be like that. I like to experiment. When I was 2yr old, I tried to fix a car engine, and wouldn't let go for hours until they let me play with it. That's just how I am. So, I want to run windows on page file or something else, located on an ssd, hdd, or whatever, but NO ram. My instant thought is that it can't be done, but I believe anything is possible. My SSD has ram module with 512 DDR3 memory that is used for caching writes to the disk, and I believe it can be used for the OS with no other RAM installed. And even if that wouldn't work, I think using only HDD, or an SSD in any other way, to replace RAM, could actually work. Maybe it would mean a lot of soldering, modifying the motherboard, changing chips, making custom chips, etc... I don't care, I know that if the whole world united to do this, all the engineers, programmers, etc... it could be done.
My idea: make a ram adapter that is plugged in the ram socket, but does not contain any ram. It would be used to enable communication between ram socket and an SSD or HDD that would be connected to the adapter.

NOTE AGAIN THAT I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THIS WILL GIVE ANY PERFORMANCE IMPROVEMENTS: I KNOW THAT THIS IS VERY SILLY. I WANT TO DO JUST THAT! If this isn't clear enough, nothing is.

The point you are missing is sure, anything is possible . But being that its not supported by Windows or other operating systems, what you are asking for (modify motherboard, custom chips, make a "ram adapter") is tremendously complicated to do, requires knowledge far beyond your own or what you will get on a forum, and is absolutely worthless to put any time and effort behind because it provides no benefits for anyone other than your curiosity.

Sure if the whole world united it could be done. But your problem is its a useless exercise that nobody would care to do.

But it is just too interesting not to share it with other geeks out there (here).