[SOLVED] I5 12600KF(or 12600) with msi b660 pro A OR 12700 with b660m dsh3 gigabyte?

TheNewbie6

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Credit to other members from my latest post they have pointed out to me that dsh3 mobo has bad VRM so I wanted to ask if it would be better to have 12600kf(or 12600) with msi b660 pro A OR 12700 with b660m dsh3 gigabyte. IK it is better to have z690 with k series BUT I am not planning to "manually" overclock and getting z690 would also be "z690m dsh3 too" and getting non dsh3 would cost from 100 to 120 more dollars. So it would be either 12600KF(or 12600),with msi b660 pro A OR 12700 with b660m dsh3 gigabyte. So what is the best compination from these 3 cpus with those 2 mobo? Is that vrm good or bad design really a big deal someone should bear in mind before making a purchase? I mean IK that 12700 is "quite" better than 12600kf and way better than 12600. I mean should I make the trade off so I can get better processor with bad VRM mobo or should my priority be good VRM mobo first? Thx in advance
 

Lafong

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Current prices on Newegg

12600; 230; integrated graphics; no E cores;

12600kf; 260; no integrated graphics; 4 E cores;

12600k; 278; integrated graphics; 4 E cores;

I would want both the E cores and integrated graphics. I would get the K, paying an 18 dollar premium over the KF to get integrated graphics.

I have NO idea if E cores can help in the games you play.

I have NO idea if you spend 10 minutes a day or 10 minutes a year doing non-gaming stuff.

I have not seen your entire parts list. If 18 dollars is a big deal, there might be some place in your parts list where I would cut back to save the 18 dollars and instead spend it on the K rather than the KF.
 
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Lutfij

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Non-K suffix processor when going with a B series chipset since you can't overclock the processor. If I were you, I'd look into a higher quality B660 chipset board. If those are the only two boards you have access to, I'd get the MSI board due to the VRM cooling though both boards are practically akin to bottom of the barrel boards...meaning lackluster componentry.
 

TheNewbie6

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Non-K suffix processor when going with a B series chipset since you can't overclock the processor. If I were you, I'd look into a higher quality B660 chipset board. If those are the only two boards you have access to, I'd get the MSI board due to the VRM cooling though both boards are practically akin to bottom of the barrel boards...meaning lackluster componentry.
Is that one any better?
https://kimostore.net/collections/motherboard/products/ac119d5f-2041-4be3-8ecd-609ab70a8fba
Also for any better b660 the will be about at least 100 dollars difference (which unfortunately I can't afford)
Also should I get the normal 12600 not the KF one? I mean KF one has more and threads I think or would they be useless anyway on b660 boards?or did you mean by non k the 12700?
 

TheNewbie6

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The MSI Mortar is an excellent choice if you want B chipset and micro ATX.

I would certainly want integrated video, regardless of CPU choice.
Can you explain the perferance for you having an integrated graphics? I have gtx 1660 ti (not that good IK but I mean I have a dedicated graphics card). I mean what I would be messing out without integrated graphics. My main use is gaming/streaming with minor to moderate video editing
 

Lafong

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It's a temporary fall back position if you are having issues or outright failure with your video card. You can still operate your PC.

It's a trade-off like everything else. All PC component choices are a compromise if a budget is involved.

If you would rather spend the price difference on something else, do so. Nobody knows your priorities.

I'd also consider the Gigabtyre B660M Aorus Pro AX motherboard if available to you.
 

TheNewbie6

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It's a temporary fall back position if you are having issues or outright failure with your video card. You can still operate your PC.

It's a trade-off like everything else. All PC component choices are a compromise if a budget is involved.

If you would rather spend the price difference on something else, do so. Nobody knows your priorities.

I'd also consider the Gigabtyre B660M Aorus Pro AX motherboard if available to you.
OK man thx I just wanted to get different opinions about that F and non F cpus because some youtuber mentioned that non F still help gpu "quite significantly" in some tasks and would be good to have that feature. Also ty for mobo advice that aorus b660m isn't available unfortunately but there is atx one and the difference between it and that mortar would be like 100 usd and I wouldn't be able to afford that.
Also the link to the video that I was talking about is this one:
View: https://youtu.be/ucNewAZ8g4E

Sorry IDK how to make the video start at specific segment but at 2:07 he said the igpu can give you up to 30 or 40 percent difference in performance(I feel he is exaggerating) and at 3:57 said even at gaming/streaming he said that the igpu will be beneficial in helping the gpu. So what do you think will be better if I am only getting either 12600 or 12600kf? Also thx for helping me out with the mobo choice
 

Why_Me

Champion
OK man thx I just wanted to get different opinions about that F and non F cpus because some youtuber mentioned that non F still help gpu "quite significantly" in some tasks and would be good to have that feature. Also ty for mobo advice that aorus b660m isn't available unfortunately but there is atx one and the difference between it and that mortar would be like 100 usd and I wouldn't be able to afford that.
Also the link to the video that I was talking about is this one:
View: https://youtu.be/ucNewAZ8g4E

Sorry IDK how to make the video start at specific segment but at 2:07 he said the igpu can give you up to 30 or 40 percent difference in performance(I feel he is exaggerating) and at 3:57 said even at gaming/streaming he said that the igpu will be beneficial in helping the gpu. So what do you think will be better if I am only getting either 12600 or 12600kf? Also thx for helping me out with the mobo choice
The non F version of the Intel cpu's are helpful if you plan on doing video and / or photo editing otherwise if you're on a budget then save your money and get F version.
 
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Lafong

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Current prices on Newegg

12600; 230; integrated graphics; no E cores;

12600kf; 260; no integrated graphics; 4 E cores;

12600k; 278; integrated graphics; 4 E cores;

I would want both the E cores and integrated graphics. I would get the K, paying an 18 dollar premium over the KF to get integrated graphics.

I have NO idea if E cores can help in the games you play.

I have NO idea if you spend 10 minutes a day or 10 minutes a year doing non-gaming stuff.

I have not seen your entire parts list. If 18 dollars is a big deal, there might be some place in your parts list where I would cut back to save the 18 dollars and instead spend it on the K rather than the KF.
 
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TheNewbie6

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Current prices on Newegg

12600; 230; integrated graphics; no E cores;

12600kf; 260; no integrated graphics; 4 E cores;

12600k; 278; integrated graphics; 4 E cores;

I would want both the E cores and integrated graphics. I would get the K, paying an 18 dollar premium over the KF to get integrated graphics.

I have NO idea if E cores can help in the games you play.

I have NO idea if you spend 10 minutes a day or 10 minutes a year doing non-gaming stuff.

I have not seen your entire parts list. If 18 dollars is a big deal, there might be some place in your parts list where I would cut back to save the 18 dollars and instead spend it on the K rather than the KF.
I didn't know about that site it is actually a gold mine because every piece I literally save at least 50 to 70 usd but unfortunately it doesn't ship products to my country (I live in Egypt). Anyway I was totally oblivious about some cash I was saving so I am getting I7 to (sorry the whole thread may have been waste of your time).
And about my whole build it would be gtx 1660 ti.
Case with 600w power:https://maximumhardware.store/cases/gamdias-apollo-m1-elite-rgb-mid-tower-case-kratos-e1-600w?mfp=manufacturers[23],stock_status[7](I think that power is bad but I am not sure)
Ram:https://maximumhardware.store/memory/team-t-force-delta-rgb-16gb-1-x-16gb-ddr4-3600-mhz-cl18-1-35v?mfp=15f-speed[251,301],stock_status[7](I will get 1 of those because it is already 16gb 3600mghz) or wouldn't it work I need 2 rams at least? IDK really
 

Lafong

Respectable
Yes, that kRATOS E1 600 w is probably not the best choice for a power supply. I would try to find a case without a power supply. And then buy the power supply separately.

It sells for 800 EGP, which is 43 US dollars. I would be highly suspicious of it.

I would NOT get 1 stick of 16 GB RAM. Get 2 sticks of 8 GB each, sold in a kit of 2.

What i7 are you getting? i7-12700 or the i7-12700kz?

If necessary, I'd get an i5 with a good power supply rather than an i7 with a bad power supply.

BUT, your budget is apparently moving around constantly, so who knows what you can actually afford to buy.
 

TheNewbie6

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Yes, that kRATOS E1 600 w is probably not the best choice for a power supply. I would try to find a case without a power supply. And then buy the power supply separately.

It sells for 800 EGP, which is 43 US dollars. I would be highly suspicious of it.

I would NOT get 1 stick of 16 GB RAM. Get 2 sticks of 8 GB each, sold in a kit of 2.

What i7 are you getting? i7-12700 or the i7-12700kz?

If necessary, I'd get an i5 with a good power supply rather than an i7 with a bad power supply.

BUT, your budget is apparently moving around constantly, so who knows what you can actually afford to buy.
1_LOL my budget isn't moving around that much it was just 70 usd that I was totally not aware of. I am getting I7 12700(no k or f or kf).

2-And about the case I can get that case without psu (because I think it has a good air flow for that price "51 usd") and see about that power later.

3-And btw the case with power was 1650 EGP (89 usd)but that doesn't change the fact that the power is bad I think.

4-Can you actually tell me why not to get 1 stick of ram if it has total memory capacity and same mghz? (I just want to understand not pointless argument)

5-And if I happen to get a bad or subpar psu for a cpu what is the worst case scenario? Will the CPU gets damaged? Or mobo get damaged too? (I just want to know all the consequences because if there are really bad ones I may delay the purchase of the case and psu for later "not that my budget is pretty inconsistent I will just wait and save more😅😅")

Sorry if it is too much questions. Thx in advance
 

Karadjgne

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Dual channel memory vs single channel.
Imagine standing in front of a wall. Right hand, punch the wall. Repeatedly. Think of the motion. Time to swing, time to hit, time to pull back and repeat. A lot of time overall. Now do it with 2 hands. Right hand hits, starts to pull back, left hand is already moving in swing. 1-2 punch.

Same swing rate, same amount of time per individual swing rate, twice as many hits on the wall. Same apples to ram in single/dual channel. It doubles the bandwidth, so more data is moved faster overall, for the same amount of effort by the memory controller.

Generally works out to @ 1.5x the performance due to swamping the cpu with data, but it means smaller files can be moved simultaneously with large files, without the waiting period waiting for the big file to finish.
 
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Lafong

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4-Can you actually tell me why not to get 1 stick of ram if it has total memory capacity and same mghz? (I just want to understand not pointless argument)

5-And if I happen to get a bad or subpar psu for a cpu what is the worst case scenario? Will the CPU gets damaged? Or mobo get damaged too? (I just want to know all the consequences because if there are really bad ones I may delay the purchase of the case and psu for later "not that my budget is pretty inconsistent I will just wait and save more😅😅")
The single channel versus dual channel difference has been talked about in thousands of threads all over the Internet for a long time.

It's not huge, but it is there. If you did not know which RAM configuratiion you had inside your case, you may never notice the difference.....depending on what you are doing with the PC.

If the price premium for 2 x 8 compared to 1 x 16 was 50 dollars, it would probably be a better idea to spend the 50 dollars on a faster CPU or a larger SSD or a better cooler.

I don't know if 2 x 8 would get you 1 more frame per second on some game that you play.

I have NO idea what your price premium is at your sources in Egypt.
 
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TheNewbie6

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Dual channel memory vs single channel.
Imagine standing in front of a wall. Right hand, punch the wall. Repeatedly. Think of the motion. Time to swing, time to hit, time to pull back and repeat. A lot of time overall. Now do it with 2 hands. Right hand hits, starts to pull back, left hand is already moving in swing. 1-2 punch.

Same swing rate, same amount of time per individual swing rate, twice as many hits on the wall. Same apples to ram in single/dual channel. It doubles the bandwidth, so more data is moved faster overall, for the same amount of effort by the memory controller.

Generally works out to @ 1.5x the performance due to swamping the cpu with data, but it means smaller files can be moved simultaneously with large files, without the waiting period waiting for the big file to finish.
That was so clean explanation ty so much man
 

TheNewbie6

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Dual channel memory vs single channel.
Imagine standing in front of a wall. Right hand, punch the wall. Repeatedly. Think of the motion. Time to swing, time to hit, time to pull back and repeat. A lot of time overall. Now do it with 2 hands. Right hand hits, starts to pull back, left hand is already moving in swing. 1-2 punch.

Same swing rate, same amount of time per individual swing rate, twice as many hits on the wall. Same apples to ram in single/dual channel. It doubles the bandwidth, so more data is moved faster overall, for the same amount of effort by the memory controller.

Generally works out to @ 1.5x the performance due to swamping the cpu with data, but it means smaller files can be moved simultaneously with large files, without the waiting period waiting for the big file to finish.
Can you kindly answer this question for me? If I happen to get a bad or subpar psu for a cpu(12700 non k or f) what is the worst case scenario? Will the CPU gets damaged? Or mobo get damaged too? (I just want to know all the consequences to know how bad things can go). Thx
 

Karadjgne

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Can you kindly answer this question for me? If I happen to get a bad or subpar psu for a cpu(12700 non k or f) what is the worst case scenario? Will the CPU gets damaged? Or mobo get damaged too? (I just want to know all the consequences to know how bad things can go). Thx
Don't ask for worst case scenario, lol. Worst case scenario for a sub-par psu in Any pc is your house burns completely to the ground. And yes that's a real scenario. Person left their pc downloading a big game and went to work. The psu failed, and started a fire inside the pc, which went unnoticed since no one was home. All that plastic in the pc eventually lit up good, and spread, burning the house down.

Normally, bad scenarios involve instability, pc shutdowns, bsods, gpu issues, overheating, big electric bills, keeping feet warm in winter. Cpu damaged? Unlikely. What's more likely is the motherboard/gpu/ram will have fits and get damages with prolonged use, lowering lifespan. The cpu comes after the voltage regulatory circuitry, so power is regulated, but that doesn't stop the ups/downs of voltages with erratic DC voltage. Just means the cpu will run higher voltages overall to compensate and keep working voltages inside the necessary range.

The only real, permanent damage a cpu might see from a sub-par psu is if the output of the psu spikes, which happens when the psu fails/shorts out. That spike might make it through the motherboard and toast both components.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f6snWfd1v7M
DC voltage is supposed to be a straight line, Direct current, constant. Sub-par psus do not contain enough circuitry to make AC (alternating current) straight, it's still got a very evident 'ripple'. You can Always tell a bad psu by its weight. If it's super light, there's nothing inside. If it's heavy, it's full of components and heatsinks. A heavy psu might be bad, due to design and/or component choice, but there's no such thing as a really good, but feather light, psu.
 
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TheNewbie6

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Don't ask for worst case scenario, lol. Worst case scenario for a sub-par psu in Any pc is your house burns completely to the ground. And yes that's a real scenario. Person left their pc downloading a big game and went to work. The psu failed, and started a fire inside the pc, which went unnoticed since no one was home. All that plastic in the pc eventually lit up good, and spread, burning the house down.

Normally, bad scenarios involve instability, pc shutdowns, bsods, gpu issues, overheating, big electric bills, keeping feet warm in winter. Cpu damaged? Unlikely. What's more likely is the motherboard/gpu/ram will have fits and get damages with prolonged use, lowering lifespan. The cpu comes after the voltage regulatory circuitry, so power is regulated, but that doesn't stop the ups/downs of voltages with erratic DC voltage. Just means the cpu will run higher voltages overall to compensate and keep working voltages inside the necessary range.

The only real, permanent damage a cpu might see from a sub-par psu is if the output of the psu spikes, which happens when the psu fails/shorts out. That spike might make it through the motherboard and toast both components.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f6snWfd1v7M
DC voltage is supposed to be a straight line, Direct current, constant. Sub-par psus do not contain enough circuitry to make AC (alternating current) straight, it's still got a very evident 'ripple'. You can Always tell a bad psu by its weight. If it's super light, there's nothing inside. If it's heavy, it's full of components and heatsinks. A heavy psu might be bad, due to design and/or component choice, but there's no such thing as a really good, but feather light, psu.
Ouch those are some nasty consequences.
I am really grateful for that prolonged and detailed explanation. Thx for your time man.
Didn't even think that bad cpus can be that bad to the extent that even at like 60% of their total wattage capacity they still fail
 

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