[SOLVED] i5 failure on my MX Linux Desktop

stackman1

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Hello
In January '21, i ordered and assembled my 2nd desktop with the help of Tom's Community. (I hope my signature still lists my components, if not- I will add after posting this entry.) I was building a Linux only machine. One that used 'internal graphics', so I could avoid installing a separate gpu. I wanted to avoid a gpu because I was hoping to avoid driver issues. I don't game or run any graphic intensive programs. I decided on the Intel chip i5 chip. After trying a number of distros I ultimately loaded MX Linux. I was required to use the 'advanced hardware' version of MX19 and more recently MX21. System has run decently for 18 months or so.....

Unfortunately I awoke this morning to 5 beeps on boot. 5 beeps means cpu failure(?) based on superficial research. The machine powers on, but after the beeps, nothing. I bought most of my components on Amazon: thought I was in clear. I am out of warranty, as I purchased the cpu from Amazon in January '21?

Before I lose what I typed (using tiny tablet), I would like to post what I have communicated so far. The i5 cost $94 originally. That same chip now costs $174.

I will attempt to reset the cpu but chances are that won't work. So it would appear that I am back looking for suggestions.
I want to use Linux MX 21 going forward but maybe I need to use a different cpu even though it allowed me to avoid the gpu.

Any thoughts appreciated.
 

Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
No, it doesn't "erase the BIOS". I've done it hundreds of times, and have prompted users on this forum to do so, with a very good success rate in resolving issues, at least a few hundred times. Nobody has ever had an issue with the board failing to POST afterwards due to having removed the CMOS battery. It's a standard CMOS reset procedure used by thousands and thousands of people. If you are having problems now it's almost certainly because there were already problems, hence the strange behaviors you were experiencing.

I'd recommend removal from the chassis and bench test using minimal hardware. No drive attached at all. One stick of memory. As outlined here in my bench testing guide.


To me, it sounds as though there is a motherboard or CPU failure, but I'd go through the bench test routine just to be sure. Also, it might actually be worth removing all memory, disconnecting all drives, removing the CPU and cooler, disconnecting power from the motherboard entirely including the CMOS battery, jumping the pwr pins that the case power button normally plugs into for about ten seconds with a flat screwdriver, then reconnecting power to the board but not reinstalling the hardware and power on the board by jumping the pwr pins again (With the CMOS battery reinstalled). Of course, it's not going to start but this is simply a step.

Next, turn off the switch on the back of the PSU or unplug it from the wall, reinstall the CPU and cooler, install ONE DIMM in the slot designated for single DIMM population, make sure you don't still have the CMOS jumper pin in the CLR position (In fact, might want to double check that before even going through all of this, just in case), reconnect the power supply to the motherboard, flip the switch back on or plug it back in and attempt to power on the system to see if there is any change.

While you have the system apart it would be a very good idea to also VERY CLOSELY check to see if there are any bent or visibly "different" pins at all on the motherboard. Also check for any bulging capacitors on the board, or traces that look burnt or otherwise abnormal. On the back AND front of the board.
 
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Darkbreeze

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Intel has a three year warranty on ALL their processors. So, if the CPU is the problem it is still under warranty BUT it is very unlikely that the CPU is the problem. They just don't really "go bad" unless something else causes it. I mean, it does happen, but it is incredibly rare.

Now, motherboard failures, memory failures (Also uncommon if they have been working fine previously, but not as uncommon as CPU), other issues, all possible to trigger CPU errors.

My first thought here is that perhaps you installed this motherboard with a standoff in the wrong place that wasn't a problem at the time but over time has worn through the protective coating on the motherboard and is now shorting out one of the traces. Long shot, but I've seen it happen a bunch of times before.

I'd pull the motherboard, CPU, etc. and bench test it all using my guide as a reference.

 

stackman1

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Hello Dark. I reviewed your material. Thank You.
I removed my memory sticks to get a better look at the heating and fan. It seemed on first touch that one of the four push pins holding down the heating fan was not fully seated. So I removed the fan. I also opened the cpu socket and reseated processor. I then reinstalled the heatsink fan and checked that it was not loose. I reinstalled the memory and powered back on. Fans came on but this time no POST beeps at all and monitor remains black. Any thoughts. Thanks
 

stackman1

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Hello Dark. I reviewed your material. Thank You.
I removed my memory sticks to get a better look at the heating and fan. It seemed on first touch that one of the four push pins holding down the heating fan was not fully seated. So I removed the fan. I also opened the cpu socket and reseated processor. I then reinstalled the heatsink fan and checked that it was not loose. I reinstalled the memory and powered back on. Fans came on but this time no POST beeps at all and monitor remains black. Any thoughts. Thanks
Damn autocorrect. I intended the word 'heatsink' not heating
 

Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
Did you take it out of the case and build it with minimal hardware on the bench? ON the box the motherboard came in or any piece of cardboard is fine. Need to eliminate some things that can only be eliminated by removing the board from the case.
 

stackman1

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Did you take it out of the case and build it with minimal hardware on the bench? ON the box the motherboard came in or any piece of cardboard is fine. Need to eliminate some things that can only be eliminated by removing the board from the case.
I didn't remove the motherboard from the case. I assume that is what your asking. I simply did what I wrote.
 

stackman1

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I don't have any testing tools. I assembled the components myself so I should be able to do it again. You want me to disconnect/remove the mobo from my mini case and reconnect everything once outside of case? Is the hope that I will either spot evidence of damage to a component or fix a previously bad connection?
 

Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
I don't "want" you to do anything. What I "want" you to do is read the guide I wrote and posted a link to for you, and if YOU wish, do what is indicated there, in the hopes that it will help you find the solution or at least narrow it down to a much smaller group of suspects.
 

stackman1

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I didn't remove the motherboard from the case. I assume that is what your asking. I simply did what I wrote.
I don't "want" you to do anything. What I "want" you to do is read the guide I wrote and posted a link to for you, and if YOU wish, do what is indicated there, in the hopes that it will help you find the solution or at least narrow it down to a much smaller group of suspects.
Jesus. Relax man. I'll figure it out. Thanks anyway
 

stackman1

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Sorry Dark. My mistake. Anyway, I continued to mess with my box. Broke down and re-installed each component and connection. Thought maybe my CMOS battery was bad and when I went to put the multi-meter on it - couldn't find it. Ultimately found it 'taped' on my audio port. It had over 3 volts so was fine. But in the course of redoing everything, I must have inadvertently corrected my original problem. Thank goodness, because I really didn't want to start returning parts that were likely perfectly fine but simply not/poorly connected. Thanks for your feedback. This case can be considered 'solved'.
 

Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
So the CMOS battery wasn't even installed? If that's true I'm not sure how it ever worked right in the first place, but that would certainly cause a number of different potential problems. I've seen boards work fine without a good CMOS battery other than a few minor glitches and won't save BIOS settings, and I've seen boards that simply will not even POST properly without it installed.
 

stackman1

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So the CMOS battery wasn't even installed? If that's true I'm not sure how it ever worked right in the first place, but that would certainly cause a number of different potential problems. I've seen boards work fine without a good CMOS battery other than a few minor glitches and won't save BIOS settings, and I've seen boards that simply will not even POST properly without it installed.
No, my CMOS was just hidden (taped to a audio port). I simply tested the voltage. It was working fine.
Unfortunately, even though I was able to get it working again (via re-seating/re-installing components), my success was short-lived.
I recently, contacted Intel (5 beeps @ POST indicate processor error per AMI).
As expected they want me to perform certain steps.
They wanted me to clear the CMOS. So I detached the battery wire from the on board header.
I waited 5 minutes and re-inserted battery wire to header.

When I rebooted, the motherboard is getting power. Fans, led lights etc. all work but there does not appear to be any POSTing.
I get no beeps and nothing on monitor.
Not sure if I needed to do something extra after detaching battery.
Just replied to Intel. We'll see.
 

Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
I think you are confusing the system speaker for the CMOS battery. The CMOS battery isn't connected via a wire except on some laptops. On motherboards, they have, for ages and ages, always been a CR2032 coin style battery that looks like this and is inserted into a slot on the motherboard. Might be that you need to start the whole process over again and actually use the CMOS battery this time if that's the case.

 

stackman1

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I have a small footprint mobo (like 6"x 6") so laying a battery flat would have eaten up too much real estate. I understand why the battery itself was upright taped to the side of the audio ports and connected by thin wire to a mobo hdr. The ASROCK manual does a poor job in that it doesn't show the battery hdr on the mobo. The 2 pin clrmos1 hdr is on the other side of board.
 

stackman1

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When I told the Intel rep (bot?) that I was no longer getting to POST (after temporarily disconnecting CMOS battery from mobo), he told me that he provided that instruction in error. Now, he wants me to take steps to return processor. Not exactly confidence building.

But I need some insight on this CMOS/BIOS stuff. When I disconnected the CMOS Battery from the mobo hdr, I was not told to 'short the CLRMOS1 pins'.
Is that something I should try before sending component back?????

Thanks in advance to all
 

Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
Once battery is disconnected there is nothing that would, or could happen via shorting the CMOS reset pin. All that does is break the power connection and with the battery removed the power connection is already broken. Pushing the power button (Or shorting the pwr pins that would normally be connected to a power button/switch) CAN have an additional result though as in some cases the small amount of residual power remaining is enough to not allow a full reset of the CMOS hardware tables. So that's why we call it doing a "hard" reset when you do that. As follows:

BIOS Hard Reset procedure

Power off the unit, switch the PSU off and unplug the PSU cord from either the wall or the power supply.

Remove the motherboard CMOS battery for about three to five minutes. In some cases it may be necessary to remove the graphics card to access the CMOS battery.

During that five minutes while the CMOS battery is out of the motherboard, press the power button on the case, continuously, for 15-30 seconds, in order to deplete any residual charge that might be present in the CMOS circuit. After the five minutes is up, reinstall the CMOS battery making sure to insert it with the correct side up just as it came out.

If you had to remove the graphics card you can now reinstall it, but remember to reconnect your power cables if there were any attached to it as well as your display cable.

Now, plug the power supply cable back in, switch the PSU back on and power up the system. It should display the POST screen and the options to enter CMOS/BIOS setup. Enter the bios setup program and reconfigure the boot settings for either the Windows boot manager or for legacy systems, the drive your OS is installed on if necessary.

Save settings and exit. If the system will POST and boot then you can move forward from there including going back into the bios and configuring any other custom settings you may need to configure such as Memory XMP, A-XMP or D.O.C.P profile settings, custom fan profile settings or other specific settings you may have previously had configured that were wiped out by resetting the CMOS.

In some cases it may be necessary when you go into the BIOS after a reset, to load the Optimal default or Default values and then save settings, to actually get the hardware tables to reset in the boot manager.

It is probably also worth mentioning that for anything that might require an attempt to DO a hard reset in the first place, IF the problem is related to a lack of video signal, it is a GOOD IDEA to try a different type of display as many systems will not work properly for some reason with displayport configurations. It is worth trying HDMI if you are having no display or lack of visual ability to enter the BIOS, or no signal messages.

Trying a different monitor as well, if possible, is also a good idea if there is a lack of display. It happens.


Other than that, I don't see and am not aware of, any additional steps you could take that might result in a different outcome in that regard anyhow.

Also, my bad on the board. Didn't realize you had a small form factor board, which is why it's always a good idea to list your EXACT hardware specifications anytime you post a thread on any forum asking for hardware related assistance. CPU, motherboard, power supply, memory kit, storage devices, graphics card, and in most cases also case, case fans, CPU cooler and any additional components like third party fan or RGB hubs as well. Any of those things might be relevant to a given problem even if it seems unlikely.
 

stackman1

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Thanks for the feedback Dark.
I performed a Hard Reset. Couple of times.

I now long for the days of 5 short beeps on boot.
Now all I hear on boot is silence and all I view is a dark screen. ;))

On Reset boot, the cpu and chassis fans spin.
The led on the power button is lit but there is otherwise no discernible 'posting'.

Hear nothing and see no flashing of lights on the keyboard (num lock etc), reflecting testing.
The motherboard is getting power but it would appear nothing else is being executed.
Pretty straightforward system. Integrated graphics with an HDMI monitor.

Will do some further reading but don't quite understand mechanically how the BIOS gets reloaded.
It would appear that disconnecting the CMOS Battery from the mobo for five minutes did/does erase the BIOS.
The question I have is, why are the 'default BIOS values' not reloaded?
Why does my machine no longer appear to POST?

PS. The components of my system can be viewed in the 'signature' of each forum reply. See above.

Thanks
Peter
 

Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
No, it doesn't "erase the BIOS". I've done it hundreds of times, and have prompted users on this forum to do so, with a very good success rate in resolving issues, at least a few hundred times. Nobody has ever had an issue with the board failing to POST afterwards due to having removed the CMOS battery. It's a standard CMOS reset procedure used by thousands and thousands of people. If you are having problems now it's almost certainly because there were already problems, hence the strange behaviors you were experiencing.

I'd recommend removal from the chassis and bench test using minimal hardware. No drive attached at all. One stick of memory. As outlined here in my bench testing guide.


To me, it sounds as though there is a motherboard or CPU failure, but I'd go through the bench test routine just to be sure. Also, it might actually be worth removing all memory, disconnecting all drives, removing the CPU and cooler, disconnecting power from the motherboard entirely including the CMOS battery, jumping the pwr pins that the case power button normally plugs into for about ten seconds with a flat screwdriver, then reconnecting power to the board but not reinstalling the hardware and power on the board by jumping the pwr pins again (With the CMOS battery reinstalled). Of course, it's not going to start but this is simply a step.

Next, turn off the switch on the back of the PSU or unplug it from the wall, reinstall the CPU and cooler, install ONE DIMM in the slot designated for single DIMM population, make sure you don't still have the CMOS jumper pin in the CLR position (In fact, might want to double check that before even going through all of this, just in case), reconnect the power supply to the motherboard, flip the switch back on or plug it back in and attempt to power on the system to see if there is any change.

While you have the system apart it would be a very good idea to also VERY CLOSELY check to see if there are any bent or visibly "different" pins at all on the motherboard. Also check for any bulging capacitors on the board, or traces that look burnt or otherwise abnormal. On the back AND front of the board.
 
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stackman1

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Dark. Wanted to fill you in......
When I contacted Intel about my boot up difficulties and indicated that my BIOS Codes (5 beeps) indicated a 'processor error' (AMI), they responded by offering a replacement. I didn't argue but am fearful that my troubles may lie elsewhere. I will be receiving my replacement at some point today.

In preparation, I disassembled my board,psu,case (put mobo on cardboard) and returned to your sticky about motherboard testing. If I had my choice I would have had the motherboard replaced because the cpu did work for a year and there just appears to be so much more that can go wrong with a mobo (eg. shorts) than cpu.

I have very little experience examining the mobo cpu socket. I have used a magnifying glass to see if the cpu socket looks damaged. I can say there are 2 or 3 sections that are not uniform. I've tried taking some photos. But my eyes aren't very good. I'm old. Maybe I will try and post pics. I really don't want to damage my arriving cpu with bad socket pins if that is the case. Let me see what I can produce to look at.
 

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