Question I7 12700f good enough for rtx 3080/4080?

[Kellerman88]

Hi.

Consider to get a custom build pc that have i7 12700F cpu. It also have 32gb ddr4 ram.
After what i have heard it wont bottleneck a rtx 3080 grapic card, but after trying this calculator here it say bottleneck even on the 3080:

Core i7-12700 and GeForce RTX 3080 build in Graphic Card Intense Tasks | Bottleneck calculation | PC Builds

Bottleneck calculation for Intel Core i7-12700 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 for Graphic Card Intense Tasks. Containing solutions how to resolve bottleneck.

pc-builds.com

Then i testes the calculator in resolution 4K and see if it bottleneck, after this calculations it having 13% bottleneck with 3080 but only 6% bottleneck with the 4080, dosnt make sence to me.

Appreciate if someone could let me know about if the i7 12700 would set any limitation on this two grapic cards with using only for gaming.

Could it be this calculations mean the grapic cards bottleneck the Max preformence from the i7? In that case i was looking for information if i7 give enough preformence so both this two grapics card work 100% without been holding back.

 

[dark_globe]

calculators are never 100% accurate
take a look at this https://www.cpuagent.com/cpu/intel-...k/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4080?res=1&quality=ultra
12700K is only bottlenecking rtx 4080 by 5% on average (and that is 1080p , in 4K it will be even more negligible)
default all core boost difference between 12700f and 12700K is only 200MHz (which is not much)

so you should be totally fine even with rtx 4080 -
when it comes to rtx 3080 it is a much slower card compared to rtx 4080 (i would no longer consider it to be a viable option for 4K gaming)
4080 will give you 120 FPS on average in 4K resolution whereas rtx 3080 only yields around 80 FPS on average
so if you have a screen with high refresh rate it can no longer keep up with it and
the processor in this instance becomes the least of your problems .
of course you can hunt maximum possible 1% and 0.1% lows and get an even better cpu :
either upcoming 7800x3d or already existing 13700K or 7700x
(AM5 is worth getting just for the future upgrade path alone , because LGA1700 upgrade path is already virtually non existant if you start with i7) .

 

[MEMOFLEX]

Those bottleneck calculators are garbage and do not really give any useful information. Also the word bottleneck is thrown about far too often and often incorrectly.

There will always be some form of bottleneck in a system but this is not necessary a problem in many cases. There are so many variables that the 'bottleneck' will shift based on the use case. The easiest example is moving from 1 type of game to another as the demands on the hardware will be completely different.

Can you list the full specs of the prebuild you are looking at as this will help people assess whether what you are looking to buy is fit for what you want the system for? I personally think a 3080 at this stage for 4k gaming is not a prudent choice but I also get a bit iffy about the power supplies often bundled with the pre built.

 

[KyaraM]

It might slightly limit the 4080... at 1080p. Maybe very slightly on 1440p, but above that, it doesn't matter what CPU you have for the most part. Just make sure to set PL1=PL2 in BIOS to ensure the low PL1 won't hinder CPU performance. Also, yeah, those calculators are trash and won't give you meaningful results.

That said the 4080 is in a weird spot with its pricing, where it is besieged on all sides from both other Nvidia cards and AMD. The 4090 offers performance on a level that can be reached or beaten only in very rare scenarios, while more expensive 4080s already cost as much as the 4090. That is not a sensible price point and only the cheaper ones are really worth considering at all.

Meanwhile, it also costs almost 40%-50% more than a 4070Ti, depending on models and if they are on sale or not, while only offering 25% more performance. That's bad value. And then, AMD cards are either a bit weaker but cheaper, or about the same price but stronger, at least as long as you only consider rasterizing, not Raytracing. Plus, a 4070Ti or RX7900XT likely will perform very similar to the 4080 due to CPU limitations at anything below 4k, making it even less interesting imho. All the cards mentioned beat the 3080 while often being cheaper, and the 4070Ti is currently the card with the lowest power draw (though the 4090 os the most efficient overall) in the high-end sector. The 3080 is also both less powerful and less efficient, with higher transient power spikes to boot so you need a better PSU. And then there are the new features of the RTX 4000 series...Personally, I wouldn't look at the 3080 anymore at this point in time.

 

[hotaru.hino]

Instead of worrying about a bottleneck, worry about the performance you want. Do you want this thing to get 120 FPS on max details at 1080p? First figure out if the CPU can even meet or exceed that most of the time. If the answer is yes, then we can start looking at a video card that can also meet or exceed that at maximum quality.

 

[Kellerman88]

Thanks for the advices, here is the spec on the pc:

i7 12700F
32gb ddr4 ram
2tb ssd 3000/3000
Corsair 850w psu 80 gold sertified
MSI Rtx 3080 10gb

Got the price of the same pc and with the gainward rtx 4070ti and the cost would be 300 dollar more vs getting it with the msi 3080.

I would never use it with 1080p, most cases 4K, my goal is 60fps. I can go from ultra to high also or maby trying out 1440p with Max of everything.

About the dlss 3 isnt that possible on the 3080 to get some fps boost?
Just checked out this video and with dx12 it is only 1 fps in a few games in 4K 4070ti vs 3080. And some other games it could be up to 18-20 more fps in 4K with the 4070ti, so i dont get vice on this, in some games the card is equal and other 20% faster it seems.

 

[dark_globe]

well if you only use 60Hz refresh rate screen than even 3080 would be plenty - it can do 80FPS on average in 4K ,
but 4070Ti can do 100 and 4080 can do 120FPS so if you upgrade to a better 4K monitor with at least 120/144Hz refresh rate than those more expensive cards make sense .
and if you already have 120Hz plus screen than your goal should not be to only get 60FPS out of it if you are paying this much for new hardware .

 

[Kellerman88]

Yes im playing on a 4k with 60fps, feel that is huge improvment vs the console games i have played most in 30fps so for me it is pretty smooth for story games. But im affraid the 3080 could only last for 4k this year and next year it could be a 1440p card, and the 4070ti is maby solid for 4k for about another year? I have no idea, it could be games like atomic heart that running in 60fps 4k on Max settings with my 3060ti card today. Or a poor optimized game that make even the 4070ti start to go under 60fps.

Another thing i notice from console to pc is that 1440p isnt as clear on console as the pc version with same resolution in same games, so resolution mean less then i first thought, but it is a must that the pc can start with 4K to begin with

 

[dark_globe]

console developers must optimize every game no matter how hardware heavy to be playable at 60FPS -
and console hardware can´t keep up with latest and greatest PC hardware
so they artificialy downscale some things (texture quality , shadows etc etc.) in order to achieve that 60FPS without stuttering and FPS drops
that´s why games on PC if you have powerful hardware look better , because you can customize your settings accordingly .

of course if you want it to last long period of time 4070Ti will be plenty for 4K 60FPS perhaps for another 2-3 years ,
but you are sacrificing extra frames today with your current monitor (you are paying for extra frames you won´t be able to see) .

 

[Kellerman88]

console developers must optimize every game no matter how hardware heavy to be playable at 60FPS -
and console hardware can´t keep up with latest and greatest PC hardware
so they artificialy downscale some things (texture quality , shadows etc etc.) in order to achieve that 60FPS without stuttering and FPS drops
that´s why games on PC if you have powerful hardware look better , because you can customize your settings accordingly .

of course if you want it to last long period of time 4070Ti will be plenty for 4K 60FPS perhaps for another 2-3 years ,
but you are sacrificing extra frames today with your current monitor (you are paying for extra frames you won´t be able to see) .

yes true, so 1440p ultra is not close to console 1440p because off all the settings that need to be lower to get 60fps.
Sounds good about the 4070ti deliver probably 2-3 more years of 4K/60. What would you assume about the 3080? Do it probably last almost as long or do we speak that i must upgrade it at least 1 year before the 4070ti?

 

[Why_Me]

@Kellerman88 I saw your other thread on the Lenovo prebuilt for $2100. You could always call around to local PC / laptop repair shops and find out how much they would charge you to build your PC if you brought them the components. This way you get a quality build.

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/zL3gXL/fractal-design-focus-2-rgb-atx-mid-tower-case-fd-c-foc2a-04
Fractal Design Focus 2 RGB ATX Mid Tower Case $66.98

Rear exhaust fan for that case.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GJGF56L
ARCTIC P12 PWM 120mm 4-Pin Case Fan $9.99

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/mQ...ed-fully-modular-atx-power-supply-sf-750f14hg
Super Flower Leadex III Gold 750W 80+ Gold Modular ATX Power Supply $99.99

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/VzWzK8/asus-prime-z690-a-atx-lga1700-motherboard-prime-z690-a
Asus PRIME Z690-A $214.99

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/YDM48d/intel-core-i7-12700kf-36-ghz-8-core-processor-bx8071512700kf
Intel Core i7-12700KF $234.99

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/Mk...k-argb-6788-cfm-cpu-cooler-r-ag620-bkanmn-g-2
DeepCool AG620 BK ARGB Dual Tower CPU Cooler $49.99

Low profile RAM so it doesn't impede the cpu cooler.
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/wM...ddr5-5600-cl30-memory-f5-5600j3036d16gx2-rs5k
G.Skill Ripjaws S5 DDR5-5600 32GB (2x16GB) CL30 $117.99

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/4K...tb-m2-2280-nvme-solid-state-drive-wds200t3x0e
Western Digital Black SN770 2TB M.2 PCIe 4.0 x4 NVME SSD $119.99

RTX 4070 12GB due for release April 13th. $700 if I had to guess.

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/dKkWGX/microsoft-windows-11-home-oem-dvd-64-bit-kw9-00633
Microsoft Windows 11 Home OEM - DVD 64-bit $99.99

Total: $1714.90

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/jNH7YJ/samsung-s27ag50-270-2560x1440-165-hz-monitor-ls27ag500pnxza
Samsung S27AG50 27" 2560x1440 IPS 165Hz G-Sync Compatible Gaming Monitor $279.99

https://displaysolutions.samsung.com/monitor/detail/1842/S27AG50

Total w/monitor: $1994.89

A better look at those components.

PRIME Z690-A｜Motherboards｜ASUS Global

ASUS Prime series is expertly engineered to unleash the full potential of AMD and Intel processors. Boasting a robust power design, comprehensive cooling solutions and intelligent tuning options, Prime series motherboards provide daily users and DIY PC builders a range of performance tuning...

www.asus.com

https://www.fractal-design.com/products/cases/focus/focus-2/rgb-white-tg-clear-tint/

https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...-25m-cache-up-to-5-00-ghz/specifications.html

https://www.deepcool.com/products/C...al-Tower-CPU-Cooler-1700-AM5/2022/16082.shtml

 

[KyaraM]

Thanks for the advices, here is the spec on the pc:

i7 12700F
32gb ddr4 ram
2tb ssd 3000/3000
Corsair 850w psu 80 gold sertified
MSI Rtx 3080 10gb

Got the price of the same pc and with the gainward rtx 4070ti and the cost would be 300 dollar more vs getting it with the msi 3080.

I would never use it with 1080p, most cases 4K, my goal is 60fps. I can go from ultra to high also or maby trying out 1440p with Max of everything.

About the dlss 3 isnt that possible on the 3080 to get some fps boost?
Just checked out this video and with dx12 it is only 1 fps in a few games in 4K 4070ti vs 3080. And some other games it could be up to 18-20 more fps in 4K with the 4070ti, so i dont get vice on this, in some games the card is equal and other 20% faster it seems.

No, DLSS3, aka frame generation, is only possible on RTX 4070ti and above. Everything below simply misses the necessary hardware.

Introducing NVIDIA DLSS 3

Multiply frame rates by up to 4X!

www.nvidia.com

It is also pretty cool tech in games where it is included already. Usually works well.

Further, I agree with Why_Me above, if you can't build yourself, get a shop, or maybe even a friend, to do it for you. It will be cheaper, and you won't have to deal with any of the prebuilt crap like subpar airflow, cooling, proprietary parts making later upgrades impossible etc. As an alternative suggestion for the board, the MSI Pro Z690-A is a very good, usually cheap Z-series board that is plenty for everything and has both DDR4 and DDR5 variants. For the CPU, I would pay a couple bucks more for the integrated graphics. Windows I can get for under 20 bucks online, too. In any case, even if a shop charges you 150-200$, you are still cheaper with usually better quality than with a mass-produced prebuilt.

Btw, the 3080 10GB is not a good pick for 4K. It will be fine quite often, but then it will run out of VRAM at other times and limit performance and leads to ugly effects like pop-ins. Also, curiously, PCGH found that even the 12GB version of the card can have issues like stuttering while the 4070Ti, for example, doesn't despite having the same amount of VRAM with a narrower memory bus on the 4070Ti.

https://imgur.com/a/pTPuJLW

View: https://imgur.com/gallery/pTPuJLW

"Ruckler" means stuttering, btw)
Probaly because either the bigger cache on the 4070Ti stabilizes things a lot, or the memory controller on the card is better. In any case, 12GB is more future-proof on that resolution. Plus, if you get the same FPS on some games, but quite a bit higher on others with the 4070Ti... it's clearly the better card still in my opinion.

 

[dark_globe]

yes true, so 1440p ultra is not close to console 1440p because off all the settings that need to be lower to get 60fps.
Sounds good about the 4070ti deliver probably 2-3 more years of 4K/60. What would you assume about the 3080? Do it probably last almost as long or do we speak that i must upgrade it at least 1 year before the 4070ti?

yes 4070Ti will definitely be capable of sustaining at least 60FPS at 4K for longer period of time -
the only downside is as i already mentioned that right now it can do almost twice as much and you are paying for the frames you won´t be able to "see" on your current monitor .

 

[Kellerman88]

The pc is custom build from a computer workshop. Realiced the pre build store computers isnt good for its price.

I got an offer with the same setup with a Ryzen 7 7700 instead, so now that i finally found out about taking the 4070ti i hope i can get help with the processor choice for this card.

The setup would be same as always just with a ryzen 7 7700 paired with 4070ti, then i have to pay 230 dollar more vs the i7 12700 with 3080 card.

If someone have the time i can list both computer again with all specs here:

Ryzen 7 7700, 4070ti, 850w psu, 32gb ram, be quiet rock 2 aircooler. Total 2380 dollar

i7 12700, 3080 10gb, 850w psu, cooler master ml240L v2 aio cooler. Total 2150 dollar/ 2450dollar 4070ti version.

I have no clue and it’s like 20 years ago i had AMD that freezed and i went back to Intel again but that time have definitly changed

I try to read up as much as i can but i dont get any more vicer, looks like ryzen 7 is equal on paper to the i7, im more to know about stability and quality vs this two. I just have a few hours before order must be confirmed

 

[dark_globe]

ryzen 7700 is a better choice overall compared to i7 12700 - in terms of performance they are indeed very similar ,
but AM5 platform offers you much better upgrade path , also ryzen 7700 holds not only average FPS
but most importantly 1% and 0.1% lows in cpu heavy game locations and scenarios a little better than 12700 .
just don´t forget you need AM5 motherboard and DDR5 memory to go with it .
(preferably 2x16gb and at least 6000MHz cl36 , it would be even better if you can get 6000/6400MHz cl32 for similar price)

 

[Kellerman88]

ryzen 7700 is a better choice overall compared to i7 12700 - in terms of performance they are indeed very similar ,
but AM5 platform offers you much better upgrade path , also ryzen 7700 holds not only average FPS
but most importantly 1% and 0.1% lows in cpu heavy game locations and scenarios a little better than 12700 .
just don´t forget you need AM5 motherboard and DDR5 memory to go with it .
(preferably 2x16gb and at least 6000MHz cl36 , it would be even better if you can get 6000/6400MHz cl32 for similar price)

I see, so AMD is best in my case, quality/stability is same level too?
Upgrade path you mean i could probably just change cpu without changing the motherboard in future?

Forgot the ram it is corsair vengance rgb DDR5 5600mhz 2x16, cl 36 amd expo, dosnt tell me much other then ddr5 is quicker then the ddr4 3330mhz on the other pc

Motherboard is ASUS tuf gaming b650 plus

 

[dark_globe]

yes 7700 consumes even less power than i7 12700 .
yes , with AM5 you will be able to replace your cpu in the future with your old motherboard .
tuf gaming b650 plus is a good entry level motherboard so that´s fine .
can you get even faster ram or is 5600MHz lc36 the only option for this build ?
what is the brand and model of that 850w power supply ?

 

[Kellerman88]

yes 7700 consumes even less power than i7 12700 .
yes , with AM5 you will be able to replace your cpu in the future with your old motherboard .
tuf gaming b650 plus is a good entry level motherboard so that´s fine .
can you get even faster ram or is 5600MHz lc36 the only option for this build ?
what is the brand and model of that 850w power supply ?

Yes was no other option, compared to ddr4 3330mhz it cant be slower in gaming?

Corsair rme 850e ATX12v v2.4, 80 plus gold fully moduler is the power supply.

 

[dark_globe]

corsair RMx would be better but i guess there is no other option as well ?
ryzen cpus like fast memory but even 5600MHz cl16 will do fine .
it will not be "slower" than ddr4 don´t worry .
(i´m just trying to make your build even (a little bit) better (if possible) )

 

[Kellerman88]

corsair RMx would be better but i guess there is no other option as well ?
ryzen cpus like fast memory but even 5600MHz cl16 will do fine .
it will not be "slower" than ddr4 don´t worry .
(i´m just trying to make your build even (a little bit) better (if possible) )

yes it was originaly a 750w rme but i wanted to be on 100w more for larger grapics card in future, i readed up now and i had went with the rmx but it’s too late, i see this is a upgraded version with 120mm fan, maby its better then the first version.

Could probably just change it out when the 4070ti card need to be replaced, but first get it up running and see how noicy the hole setup is going to be. Appreciate that you have helped me so much!

Now we have gone trough the processor and grapic card but then it was a bit pity about the psu i wasnt aware of, i must investigate a bit more i see about things i dont think have much to say, i just wanted gold sertification and little more watt then neccesary.
Here it is https://www.corsair.com/ww/en/Categ...ar-Low-Noise-ATX-Power-Supply/p/CP-9020249-WW

Seems like it would be quiet but im more worried about the china capasitors? But i also guess the rest of the pcs component also is from china

 

[Kellerman88]

Would it be better to go for ASUS TUF Gaming 850W Gold PSU instead? Seems like the capasitors is made in Japan and they have 10 years warranty, or is the rmx corsair a better choice?

 

[dark_globe]

ASUS tuf gold is kinda unknown because it is a fairly new unit -
their TUF bronze product line is pretty bad though (and they have better product lines like strix or aura) ,
this gold units should be better though and they are also atx 3.0 and they have new 16 pin connector for high end 4xxx nvidia graphics cards ,
also 10 year warranty is more reassuring (usually lower quality units only get 5-7 years) , but nothing is certain until some reviewers open it up and test it .
RMx is a platform that has been around for a long time and with slight modifications it still holds up pretty good so it is a safe bet and it has better design
and better quality components inside compared to RMe
(in theory even this new tuf gold should be better quality than RMe but as i said it´s hard to know without a proper review) .

 

[Kellerman88]

ASUS tuf gold is kinda unknown because it is a fairly new unit -
their TUF bronze product line is pretty bad though (and they have better product lines like strix or aura) ,
this gold units should be better though and they are also atx 3.0 and they have new 16 pin connector for high end 4xxx nvidia graphics cards ,
also 10 year warranty is more reassuring (usually lower quality units only get 5-7 years) , but nothing is certain until some reviewers open it up and test it .
RMx is a platform that has been around for a long time and with slight modifications it still holds up pretty good so it is a safe bet and it has better design
and better quality components inside compared to RMe
(in theory even this new tuf gold should be better quality than RMe but as i said it´s hard to know without a proper review) .

Yes i understand, better to take something older that have showed good success. So now it’s finally done i got them to change to a 850rmx and it was 70 dollars more but well worth it for a more silent unit with higher quality, at this price range it’d definitly a few parts one cant save money on.

My questions never stop i have one more for you, is this corsair 850 supposed to be used with a surge protector or could it be build in like in the ASUS one?

Reason im asking is i have a surge protector stripe from Philips im using and i have heard before that if a product already have it build in then it’a not a good idea to Connect it to another one. And some product does not mention to have it like the xbox consoles, so i have always plugged the xbox directly to the wall without the surge protector, in the fuse box to the house i also have a bigger type that take the biggest spikes.

 

[dark_globe]

RM850x has a build in MOV (metal oxide varistor) for protection against surges .
indeed it does not help much to plug it into surge protection device .

here is a good article about it:

Can You Plug a Surge Protector Into a Surge Protector?

Many people wonder whether it’s a good idea to connect two surge protectors, either to provide additional protection or to gain access to more power outlets. The simple answer is no, and for good reason.

www.howtogeek.com

basically surge protection build in your power supply may have different trigger point than your external surge protector
and whichever is lower triggers first in case of a power surge .

but generally speaking (power supply aside) it is always better to plug your electronic devices (refrigerators , washing machines etc.)
into surge protector rather than just plug them directly into the wall

 

[Kellerman88]

RM850x has a build in MOV (metal oxide varistor) for protection against surges .
indeed it does not help much to plug it into surge protection device .

here is a good article about it:

Can You Plug a Surge Protector Into a Surge Protector?

Many people wonder whether it’s a good idea to connect two surge protectors, either to provide additional protection or to gain access to more power outlets. The simple answer is no, and for good reason.

www.howtogeek.com

basically surge protection build in your power supply may have different trigger point than your external surge protector
and whichever is lower triggers first in case of a power surge .

but generally speaking (power supply aside) it is always better to plug your electronic devices (refrigerators , washing machines etc.)
into surge protector rather than just plug them directly into the wall

Now i have readed and also checked the manual for the rm850x, as you mentioned it have built in protection, is that just another word for surge protector? My language isnt english so i use some translate sometimes, so then i definitly just plug it directly to the wall outlet and not in my seperate surge protector.

The most important part to me about protection is when this happen in my Home:

Pc is connected to the wall outlet, suddently the power in the house go off because of something in the neighborhood or bad weather,
Pc is still connected and im not Home or sleep at night, and then the power comes on back to the house and pc is still Connected to the outlet.
It is here it can risk damage because of the spike that happens on the electrical line in the house and into the outlet that happens just because when the power goes back on it cause a smaller over voltage spike the second it return back, it is here the surge protector does the job? And the over voltage protector built in does this job even it occur for only 1 second?