i7 2600 and GTX 1080ti Bottleneck?

[Shabaz_95]

Will buying a gtx 1080ti to play on a new 27 inch ASUS 1440p at 165hz G-sync Monitor bottleneck my GPU on my old skwl i7 2600 non K CPU running at 3.4 - 3.7 GHZ
If it does so, how bad will it bottleneck the GPU? Will games be playable? How long will my GPU or CPU live?
Because I've done research and there's no point in upgrading the CPU, because when it comes to frames, the sandy-bridge still does a great job, the latest coffee lakes just gives a 10% - 20% increase in FPS, which you still get above 60 FPS with the sandy-bridge and a 1080ti. I know the 2600K can get the job done, but not sure if I should risk getting the 1080ti with the 2600 non k

please help

 

[Kasper Jorgensen]

It will bottleneck yes, but not by a large amount. You also forget one important thing, yes the new coffee lake will only improve performance by so much if you are looking at avg. FPS. But what about min. FPS, they are more important. Also why talk about 60 FPS only when you have a nice 165Hz monitor, you wanna get as close to 165 FPS as you can, and that's where a new CPU will shine. IMHO the GTX 1080 TI is overkill for 165Hz as long as you don't have a CPU strong enough to back it up.

 

[Shabaz_95]

so if a 1080ti is overkill what would be a good solution, a 1070ti ?

keep in mind it's a powerful monitor, this one to be specific,

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01LWQGIUR/?tag=pcp0f-21

 

[jankerson]

so if a 1080ti is overkill what would be a good solution, a 1070ti ?

keep in mind it's a powerful monitor, this one to be specific,

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01LWQGIUR/?tag=pcp0f-21

The GTX 1080 would be a better option.

 

[Kasper Jorgensen]

A monitor is not powerful, it's just able to display 1440p at 165Hz. Really if you wanna max this monitor out, you would need a GTX 1080 TI and a new Coffee Lake 8600K or 8700K.
Could you do with less? Sure, but why get such an expensive monitor then.

 

[photonboy]

BOTTLENECK will vary by the the game, resolution of game, and settings.

I'm not sure I'd say "not by a large amount" necessarily as there will be some times where it's more than 20% but a GSYNC monitor will help reduce the effects of that.

It's a bit of a hassle to figure out how much BOTTLENECK there would be in a particular game, though if you care you can very ROUGHLY estimate by monitoring GPU usage, and GPU frequency in a game. (GPU frequency of say 2000MHz, and 95% GPU usage indicates minimal to no CPU bottleneck... but 1300MHz and 60% GPU usage indicates a big CPU bottleneck).

*So you can monitor that for several of your games, but I wouldn't likely be in a rush to upgrade the CPU especially if the FPS is good. Many games are very smooth at 60FPS especially with GSYNC running.

**You should cap some games at 60FPS (not sure how, possibly NVInspector). For example most Bethesda games may have issues if not running 60FPS (Fallout series, Skyrim etc). Sometimes it's weird physics glitches but I'm not an expert on that.

OTHER:
165Hz... I think I read something about 165Hz causing the IDLE POWER for the graphics card to jump up quite a bit but not sure how new drivers and having a GTX1080Ti would be affected. Probably fine since fan noise on a good EVGA or Asus Strix is very quite in gaming anyway.

Also was an issue where some models looked better at 144Hz as the OVERDRIVE to the pixels at 165Hz could cause color issues. Experiment if you want to see if it matters.

 

[jankerson]

A monitor is not powerful, it's just able to display 1440p at 165Hz. Really if you wanna max this monitor out, you would need a GTX 1080 TI and a new Coffee Lake 8600K or 8700K.
Could you do with less? Sure, but why get such an expensive monitor then.

Depends on his budget I guess. 😀

Max would be a GTX 1080Ti for sure no doubt if he has the budget for it.

But a GTX 1080 would be fine for 1440P also.

 

[photonboy]

so if a 1080ti is overkill what would be a good solution, a 1070ti ?

keep in mind it's a powerful monitor, this one to be specific,

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01LWQGIUR/?tag=pcp0f-21

GTX1080Ti being "overkill" is not a simple YES/NO as I discuss above. It depends on the game. Some will have minimal CPU bottleneck, and some would run more than 20% higher on a better CPU.

CPU bottleneck isn't all about the graphics either.

Having said that, looking at prices for SIMILAR cards I get:
GTX1070Ti (Strix) $500USD
GTX1080 $550
GTX1080Ti $750

The GTX1080 can get 10% higher FPS than a GTX1070Ti in some games. The CUDA/texture difference is 5% only but the GTX1070Ti memory frequency is only 80% of most GTX1080's so that can result in a 10% difference (both cards overclocked).

So I'd recommend a GTX1080 and save the $200 or so. But to be clear:

1) GTX1080Ti will give better performance in some games (i7-2600 not always a bottleneck) such as Rise of the Tomb Raider, and

2) I would not buy a new CPU/mobo/DDR4 and reinstall Windows yet. I don't think the cost and hassle is warranted, especially since you'll have a GSYNC monitor.

At the very least, do what I suggested and monitor GPU frequency and GPU usage in your games.

Getting say 85FPS vs 70FPS with GSYNC running isn't that significant IMO.

So there's no correct answer. Just try to soak in some of the info and decide.

 

[photonboy]

It will bottleneck yes, but not by a large amount. You also forget one important thing, yes the new coffee lake will only improve performance by so much if you are looking at avg. FPS. But what about min. FPS, they are more important. Also why talk about 60 FPS only when you have a nice 165Hz monitor, you wanna get as close to 165 FPS as you can, and that's where a new CPU will shine. IMHO the GTX 1080 TI is overkill for 165Hz as long as you don't have a CPU strong enough to back it up.

Hi,
You've made a common MISTAKE in discussing CPU bottlenecks.

You first claim it won't bottleneck by a large amount, but then say he doesn't have a "CPU strong enough to back it up."

That makes no sense. The CPU at any moment in time is either the bottleneck or it is not. If the CPU was not much of a bottleneck then it wouldn't make sense to get a faster CPU as it wouldn't matter much to the FPS.

I'm talking average FPS strictly for that part, but that's also what you meant by getting as close as possible to 165FPS.

(% lows matters too though the GSYNC monitor will minimize the effects of that because the monitor only draws a new frame when told. So you don't get the same type of JUDDER or STUTTER that you'd normally get due to missing a refresh cycle)

 

[Kasper Jorgensen]

It will bottleneck yes, but not by a large amount. You also forget one important thing, yes the new coffee lake will only improve performance by so much if you are looking at avg. FPS. But what about min. FPS, they are more important. Also why talk about 60 FPS only when you have a nice 165Hz monitor, you wanna get as close to 165 FPS as you can, and that's where a new CPU will shine. IMHO the GTX 1080 TI is overkill for 165Hz as long as you don't have a CPU strong enough to back it up.

Hi,
You've made a common MISTAKE in discussing CPU bottlenecks.

You first claim it won't bottleneck by a large amount, but then say he doesn't have a "CPU strong enough to back it up."

That makes no sense. The CPU at any moment in time is either the bottleneck or it is not. If the CPU was not much of a bottleneck then it wouldn't make sense to get a faster CPU as it wouldn't matter much to the FPS.

I'm talking average FPS strictly for that part, but that's also what you meant by getting as close as possible to 165FPS.

(% lows matters too though the GSYNC monitor will minimize the effects of that because the monitor only draws a new frame when told. So you don't get the same type of JUDDER or STUTTER that you'd normally get due to missing a refresh cycle)

It is not a mistake. OP talked about 60 FPS, in which case current CPU would be fine. However as he has a 165Hz monitor he would need a faster CPU to keep that FPS. OP is talking about two rates, 60 and 165, hence i answered like i did. If you read my response again, you will see that my comment about not being strong enough was meant for the 165 FPS part.

 

[jankerson]

Reason why I don't talk about bottlenecking normally.

Depends on the games and what resolution they are playing at to begin with.

I figure an i7 2600 would be fine so I didn't even bother with that.

The only time I even worry about it is when people are talking about weak CPU's and playing at low resolutions below 1080P.

They could run into serious bottlenecks depending on the CPU/GPU.

That's not the case here however thankfully.

 

[Shabaz_95]

I love where the discussion is going, thank you all for the replies.

So basically I play all genre's even graphically demanding one's, I want to max out all games with no problems with no stutter and tearing at all, with that monitor, I have money to spare, so if you people can choose the right 1080ti I would be greatful!

 

[jankerson]

I love where the discussion is going, thank you all for the replies.

So basically I play all genre's even graphically demanding one's, I want to max out all games with no problems with no stutter and tearing at all, with that monitor, I have money to spare, so if you people can choose the right 1080ti I would be greatful!

This is what I would pick, make sure you case has the room before buying however.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB FTW3 GAMING iCX Video Card ($789.99 @ B&H)
Total: $789.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-11-03 13:41 EDT-0400

 

[Kasper Jorgensen]

I would pick this.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB AORUS Xtreme Edition 11G Video Card ($804.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $804.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-11-03 14:05 EDT-0400

 

[photonboy]

I love where the discussion is going, thank you all for the replies.

So basically I play all genre's even graphically demanding one's, I want to max out all games with no problems with no stutter and tearing at all, with that monitor, I have money to spare, so if you people can choose the right 1080ti I would be greatful!

1) SCREEN TEARING is a non-issue with GSync as long as your FPS is under 165FPS (165Hz refresh).

2) STUTTER can happen for various reasons too, but since you won't have VSYNC ON there will be no added stutter due to that. For example, if you had a normal 60Hz monitor with VSYNC ON and the FPS dropped below 60FPS you'd get added stutter.

3) Best GTX1080Ti?
IMO it is the cheapest Asus Strix. You can get one for $750USD, and it's got a great TRIPLE FAN cooler that is probably the QUIETEST version there is once you OVERCLOCK and optimize the fan profile.

https://ownersmagazine.com/top-10-best-gtx-1080-graphics-card-2017/6/

I do NOT think the Gigabyte Aorus card is better. For one thing if you aren't careful the thin metal cover can get warped. If you like the LOOKS of one card over the other that may matter, but you won't get better PERFORMANCE as all the top cards are identical (just silicon lottery for the GPU) so it boils down to how quiet the FANS, reliability, price and aesthetics.

 

[photonboy]

Just FYI, but some info about GSYNC, CPU, GPU:

Normally when you have a typical, synchronous, 60Hz monitor it updates the screen 60x per second. That causes problems because the output from the GPU can vary in time.

If VSYNC is off then the GPU output depends totally on how fast it can draw a new frame. It then goes immediately to the monitor which starts updating the screen wherever it is in the refresh cycle, so you mix up different frames and thus get screen tearing (like ripping say the top, middle, and bottom of three different pages and gluing them back together).

So we turn VSYNC ON to fix that which has the PC and Monitor communicate such that the monitor will only accept the info for a new frame during a short window of time, then will only draw that frame during the next refresh. So you can't get screen tearing, but it does add latency (lag) so games feel more sluggish.

Also with VSYNC ON if we don't create a new frame in time for the next refresh (1/60th second for 60Hz) then the monitor draws the same frame again that's in the buffer. Thus we get added STUTTER/JUDDER because we get different times for when new content appears (ideally a new frame every 1/60th a second).

GSYNC really helps now because the monitor only refreshes once the GPU sends it a new frame to draw (or the GSYNC module redraws the same frame if your frame time is too low). This fixes several issues:

a) no added VSYNC lag
b) no screen tearing possible (within asynchronous range, so under 165FPS)
c) no added stutter in FPS too low situation when VSYNC used

My biggest PEEVE is when I start a game and try to tweak to maintain 60FPS with VSYNC ON but then the game drops below 60FPS forcing me to mess with the settings, then it works okay but I may need to retweak later with a more demanding area. (Adaptive VSYNC helps a bit, but you still get screen tear below the target which includes any cut scenes where the FPS is below the refresh rate such as pre-rendered video).

With GSYNC you generally just crank up the settings to ULTRA at 2560x1440, then if the FPS is a little low for the type of game you drop a few settings to get to your goal (such as over 100FPS average for shooters, 60FPS average for Assassin's Creed).

Again, some games may want 60FPS, and for some you may want to cap if there's no obvious benefit to a higher FPS (do you need 150FPS for Super Meatboy for example?) as that can reduce the fan noise.

OTHER:
The CPU does three MAIN things:
1) steps through the game MAIN THREAD of code,
2) processes branching tasks like AI, CPU physics, etc., and
3) generates draw calls to send to the graphics card

If any of these can't be done quickly enough the CPU is the bottleneck. There are some games similar to AotS (Ashes.. ) that may be limited due to how fast the AI is processed. Often a CPU bottleneck is because the main game code thread is limited by the performance of the CPU core it is running on so the CPU may not send draw calls to the graphics card fast enough (so the GPU sits idle at times).

Now we get something called 0.1% and 1% lows which I'll just simplify as saying sometimes it takes far too long to process the information for a single frame and get the draw calls sent to the GPU (so the GPU sits idle more than usual). Again, on a 60Hz monitor with VSYNC ON you want it done in 1/60th of a second, but sometimes it can be 2/60th, 5/60th or even an entire SECOND!!

GSYNC can't solve that issue, but it does reduce how obvious added latency is due to this issue.

Now a better CPU can help with this too, but it's very hard to determine how much perceived difference that would make in a game. I don't think in terms of 0.1% and 1% type lag/stutter a significantly faster CPU would matter much for most games when you already have an i7-2600 + GTX1080Ti + GSYNC monitor.

SUMMARY:
It's all a bit confusing, but basically to understand how GSYNC works start with VSYNC.

Mostly all you need to do is tweak the game settings to hit the average FPS you want for the type of game you are playing. Higher FPS for faster games, lower FPS for slower games. It's fine to run a high FPS for a slow paced game other than the added NOISE of the fans.

 

[Shabaz_95]

So after reading your highly informative comments, I have come to conclusion to BUY a gtx 1080ti along with the monitor that I chose above, it seems like there won't be many issues so I think I will be good. I think I will go for the ASUS Strix 1080ti since it seems like the most reasonable one to choose atm.

Basically I want to change my gaming experience with a new monitor, and after doing a lot of research I came to the conclusion to get that one, it is both a competitive and beautiful monitor at the same time making gaming much much better. I am currently on 1080p 60hz on a crappy iiyama 22 inch monitor 🙁

So this will be a good leap for me. Initially I was gonna do an entire upgrade, so a jump from my 2600 all the way to the latest 8700k I EVEN HAVE THE MONEY FOR IT. But after watching some videos on you-tube, it pointed out, upgrading from sandy-bridge to coffelake wasn't that MUCH of a difference in gaming anyways. Video editing work I know it makes a great difference, but that's not my field, so I'm happy with what I have now. (between us, I will be saving the extra money that remains for a vacation lol 😉 so I will also get an SSD for my gaming since it's currently on HDD, I already have a 850 Watt EVGA Platinum power-supply, a mid-tower case, so GC shouldn't have a problem fitting in, and my 2 classical Z68 and i7 2600

I currently have a G1 Gtx970, and I run all my games at Ultra and Very-high, obviously on 1080, but with the monitor upgrade, I thought I wanted to properly get the perfect GC for it, and that would be the 1080ti.

Tell me your thoughts, I really just want to increase the experience I have when I game, so with this upgrade, I will have much better Frames obviously, that 60hz - 165hz jump is apparently amazing, G-sync, and the lovely 2k experience will make a great difference I hope, so yeah, I'll definitely post it back up here when I upgrade

 

[Kasper Jorgensen]

I love where the discussion is going, thank you all for the replies.

So basically I play all genre's even graphically demanding one's, I want to max out all games with no problems with no stutter and tearing at all, with that monitor, I have money to spare, so if you people can choose the right 1080ti I would be greatful!

1) SCREEN TEARING is a non-issue with GSync as long as your FPS is under 165FPS (165Hz refresh).

2) STUTTER can happen for various reasons too, but since you won't have VSYNC ON there will be no added stutter due to that. For example, if you had a normal 60Hz monitor with VSYNC ON and the FPS dropped below 60FPS you'd get added stutter.

3) Best GTX1080Ti?
IMO it is the cheapest Asus Strix. You can get one for $750USD, and it's got a great TRIPLE FAN cooler that is probably the QUIETEST version there is once you OVERCLOCK and optimize the fan profile.

https://ownersmagazine.com/top-10-best-gtx-1080-graphics-card-2017/6/

I do NOT think the Gigabyte Aorus card is better. For one thing if you aren't careful the thin metal cover can get warped. If you like the LOOKS of one card over the other that may matter, but you won't get better PERFORMANCE as all the top cards are identical (just silicon lottery for the GPU) so it boils down to how quiet the FANS, reliability, price and aesthetics.

I do know for a fact that Gigabyte Aorus or Gigabyte Xtreme cards only use cherry picked chips and are also using tripple fans. The Gigabyte use 3x100mm fans while Asus uses 3x80mm fans. The metal cover are not a problem unless you use it as a baseball bat, you wont warp it.
For what it is worth, the fans on my Gigabyte GTX 1070 Xtreme card are less noisy if i ramp them to 100% than my Rad fans at 40%, not to say that the fans will never go above 50% even in a torture test. And my card, which is 1600 and something clock speed, stays around 2000MHz all the time because the temps stays low.

 

[deadsmiley]

I have put a GTX 1080 TI in a system with an X5670 @4.2GHz vs. my 7700K at 5GHz. I only saw a 10% drop in FPS at 1440p. Yes, it will bottleneck, but the GTX 1080 Ti is bottlenecked with my my 7700K at 5GHz versus the new 8800K @ 5GHz. I am not upgrading my CPU.

Shabaz_95 you need to pick an answer or this thread will continue to be labeled as "Help Solve This".

 

[Cioby]

Get the 1080ti Aorus. Even if you are bottlenecked, you'll get the highest performance boost you can, without having to change everything else on your motherboard. Just make sure you have a very high quality PSU of at least 650W, even 750W if you want to be sure.

And it's not overkill for 1440p, I don't know what the previous guy was smoking.

Also, your CPU is a bit weaker since it can't overclock BUT in any other case, there is no bottleneck with the 7700k or any other high end i7, my old 4770k OC at 4Ghz runs any game without the CPU dying at 100% unless the game is poorly optimized, in which case don't blame your hardware! I used to have issues with Andromeda until they fixed it, then my CPU stopped going 100% usage.

P.S. I'm gaming at 4K, it's possible at 1080p you can see your CPU struggling at 200+ fps. In which case, just use Vsync and stop wasting those extra fps you're not even seeing.