i7-4790 cpu overheating (99-110C) on ASUS Z97M-Plus MB

[The Original Ralph]

has anyone else here experienced any overheating issues with this combo, or the i7-4790k cpu?

the temps were ranging 99-100C using intel's XTU (Extreme Tuning Utility) - btw my ASUS AI Performance utility shows 67C while the intel XTU shows 99-100C - all other readings in the asus utility seem spot on, but that temp being that far off lulled me into a false feeling of security. Only reason i feel the asus temp is the faulty reading is that HWMonitor, Rear Temp and one other utility all show temp readings close to if not exact same as the intel XTU readings.

there's a heckuva of long (25 page) thread on it on the intel communty forum ( https://communities.intel.com/thread/54032?start=0&tstart=0 ) , and it's not just the asus MBs experiencing it - the issue seems to be mainly with intel's cpu, and there's considerable speculation as the cause (poorly applied TIM inside the case) to engineering design issues.

But part of the problem appears to be the default settings in the BIOS of the new Z97 boards, and the correct settings are specific to a maker's particular model board - was hoping someone's already experienced it and worked it out with asus support, as to the specific settings.

At 65, i never thought i'd be climbing learning curves re vcore voltage, current limit settings, etc

after having tried too many different setting combinations to count, i've managed to get my temps down to 74-77C, but that's by dis-abling XMP and disabling turbo boost in BIOS, and dropping vcore down to 1.0050 and limiting current to 56A, which limits my cpu frequency to 2.60GHz, which is a lot less than 3.6GHz

anybody?

 

[i7Baby]

I'd avoid using the stock cooler - it's noisy and not very good.

Intel improved the inbuilt TIM in them since the Haswells - to help with cooling. But the default boost clocks are now higher. Especially on the k version (4.4GHz).

 

[spooky2th]

I would remove the cooler and clean it up and reinstall it with decent thermal paste. If temps are still high, I would get a decent cooler like an Evo 212 or such.

EDIT:
And if you are OC'ing the CPU, i7Baby is right. You will probably need a better cooler than the stock cooler.

 

[The Original Ralph]

- first, as per the initial post, i'm not OC'ng - this is a locked i7-4790 (not a K),but even the locked ones are experiencing the issue

and have some new thermal compound due in tomorrow, so i will be checking the heatsink install - but it was pretty straightforward when i installed it, keep in mind intel has pre-applied thermal compound already on the cooler. Yeah i know the stock box cooler is weak, but down clocking to 2.60GHz to keep it in the 74-77C range??

max operating temp for my cpu is 72.xC, for the i7-4790K it's 74.4C - the temps i was seeing are far more than just the cooler - before discovering the high temps, i'd already added 3 additional fans blowing fresh air in / across the CPU and motherboard (1 80mmx25 and 2 60mmX25 fans) and cut the appropriate openings in the case cover (i've got a machine shop). I've got a cosair H55 on it's way in, but in the meantime was hoping for

I'm just hoping someone has gone thru this ahead of me and has that magic combo that i can try, before having to RMA this CPU. Folks in the intel forum that have RMA'd theirs, 3 out of 4 seem to get a replacement CPU that brings temps way down.

But there are actually vids on youtube from folks taking their cpu apart to replace the TIM. Other folks that have used aftermarket coolers have reported that after using the aftermarket coolers for awhile, their temps have come down further (beyond the original effect from additional cooling) - the theories seem to be that the greater clamping force of their aftermarket cooler has squeezed the glue compound out, inside the cpu case, so there's less of a gap between the cores and the case cover, so greater heat transfer to the case cover to dissipate or transfer into the heat sink.

I just don't like being a "beta" tester for intel

 

[i7Baby]

They boost so high, it's hardly worth OCing them anyway.

A CPU should be running at 40C max at idle and 60C max gaming and 80C max stress testing (eg Prime 95 v26.6). This is at idle or boost or even OC.

It needs to have its cooler seated properly and the fan rpm high enough.

If these temps aren't achieved then the cooler needs replacing with something better.

 

[The Original Ralph]

from what i've read, i agree - again, my only experience with DIY was with this computer, my first, and I thought i'd researched it fairly well, but never thought to check on the i7-4790 cpu

the only part that fry's me is that the asus performance utility was showing 67C the whole time - i do a lot of video editing, (a lot) and some files take 3-4 hours of continuous running - so i'd keep the asus utility running to monitor temps. Asus's monitor seems to hit a ceiling at 67C - and it only matches the intel reading around 55-57C - not sure why but.... it kind of flipped me out when i ran across that intel thread and downloaded intel's XTU utility

ran a video thru a conversion program, a 58 minute conversion - pulled XTU up to see what temps it ran during the conversion - the whole time it was pegged at 99-100C - and the only thing that saved the cpu from frying was the throttling limits in the cpu

 

[i7Baby]

I don't know exactly what you're using to measure CPU temps.

I find 3rd party software often not reliable. I prefer to get them from the mobo utility software.

 

[geofelt]

At idle, the stock cooler should be about 10-15c. over ambient.
If you do not see that, the cooler is likely not mounted well.
The pushpins can be tricky.
All 4 pins should be through the motherboard and locked.
There should be NO wiggle if you try to nudge the cooler.

 

[The Original Ralph]

i7baby - i'm using Intel's Extreme Tuning Utility - a link to it was provided by an INTEL rep with the suggestion to try it - and it is a heck of a utility. Not exactly a 3rd party program. i would suspect they know their cpu better than anyone and how to monitor it. When it was only their utility and Asus's utility, i didn't know which to believe, but when i download 3 other, yes 3rd party, utilities and they all confirm the Intel temp reading, i have to go with theirs. All the other Asus readings,, temps on mother board and graphics card are spot on or within a degree or two with intel's, and same for voltage readings etc, but not their cpu temp monitor, at least not on my copy of AI Suite 3 - suspect there's a bug in their software

geofelt - thanks - i had researched the mounting of the cooler and the cpu installation pretty well, intel actually has vids now showing correct procedure, and included was checking the push pins - i wasn't overly impressed by them, but did confirm they protruded on the underside of the MB before installing the motherboard

 

[i7Baby]

It is a 3rd party software. It's not made to match the motherboard temp sensors. Its made for Intel motherboards.

Post your complete and detailed build.

 

[spooky2th]

When you think you are running hot, restart and boot into BIOS and check the temps there.

 

[The Original Ralph]

i7Baby - but when it's built by intel or written by intel to read their CPU, i'm not sure how that makes it 3rd party software - anyway, what's important, to me, is that it sure seems accurate and is confirmed by 3 other, albeit, 3rd part software utilities. And oddly, the asus utility is accurate or close to all other readings, including mb and graphic's card temp sensors.

1st - the build

i7-4790 cpu currently w/intel box cooler (to be replaced)
ASUS Z97M-Plus motherboard (latest firmware, 2402)
Seasonic SSP-450RT PSU
Gskill RipJaws ram, 16 GB, selected from Asus QVL
samsung 840 EVO 250 GB SSD (x2)
Silverstone SUGO2B case (small form factor case) (i had added 3 additional fans on CPU side, as intake fans blowing directly on CPU and across mother board

Western 4 TB Green hard drive

Two developments that i came across in that thread since i posted here. Most of the issues reported there are with gigabyte and asus MBs.
In both makes, clearing the CMOS and resetting values in the BIOS has corrected the overheating issue for some users and is strongly recommended by the intel rep in the thread. I plan on trying that tonite if i finish up installing the new hot water heater (thru the wall gas hot water heater, woke up to find basement flooded this morning).

Settings people are finding in their bios settings, default settings, are optimized settings for overclocking but per intel's indication, are excessively high.

There also seems to be some conflict between the Asus performance utility and the bios settings - The asus performance utility does allow you to adjust bios voltage values without rebooting, ie from windows. Last night i came across one poster indicating he'd simply un-installed the AI Suite and saw his idle temps drop by 6-8C and his top end (100% useage) temps drop as well - not as far as he'd like but still, anything is an improvement.

I un-installed it, and it did the same, my idle temps went from 51-53C showing 3-4% cpu utilization, down to 44-46C and it dropped cpu utilization down to 1-2% - have no idea why, and it dropped 4-5C off top end (i suspect more would drop off at top end if i wasn't limiting current to 60A to keep temps down (that also limits cpu freq to 2.80GHz


Right now, i'm still waiting for new thermal paste to arrive so i can reseat the heat sink, i plan on clearing CMOS and resetting values in bios, mainly core voltage and turbo boost power and turbo boost short duration power limits and current limit.

I also will be getting a small single fan radiator cooling system, just haven't decided which - right now looks like the corsair H55 or H60.

and last item from that thread, a number of folks have RMA'd their cpu, and some had the same issues after replacing, and some found temps dropped to what they should be - so right now it seems to be a mix of factors. If i can't correct it with the items i described above, then i'll RMA it and see if that improves.

any suggestions other than what i've described above?

SPOOKY - "When you think you are running hot, restart and boot into BIOS and check the temps there. " Problem though, and correct me if there's a way to overcome this, but temps drop back to normal pretty fast - within 10 seconds of running stress test, temps have dropped from 99-100 down to low 70s, then another 10-15 seconds and i'm in the low to mid 50s. By the time i shut down and got into bios, it would be 15-20 seconds -

but the fact that it drops that fast, sez to me the cpu is conducting heat out, it's just producing more than it can dissipate while it's running (and i know the intel box cooler is crap but it has two 80mm fans (Scythe) not 3 inches away blowing fresh air at it. It's also fighting the PSU fan, that sits about 1&3/16" above, sucking air away from it.

Another tid bit, with the bios and the XTU utility, folks have found that the bios is apparently using a multiplier of 8 in the power boost settings, ie, if they set power boost at 88W in bios, XTU shows it as 704W. So some folks have set bios power boost at 11W and whatever, iirc 12 or 14 for the power short duration boost, and found their temps came down, with no power, current or thermal throttling.

Two folks have swapped to MSI boards and all issues disappeared.

FWIW - it is a complex issue

 

[geofelt]

I like to exercise my cpu with OCCT.
I think it uses more normal functions and better reflects what we would normally do.
It will shut the test down at 85c.
The thing to look for is the vcore. At full load, I would expect the vcore to max out at 1.20v. or so.
It is the vcore that increases the temperature.
If the chip requires more than 1.30v to run at the advertised speeds, I might ask for a replacement.

Since the 4770 is not multiplier overclockable, I would not fool with fsb overclocking. It impacts too many other parts to be worth the 2-3% boost that might be available.

Your case does not have good airflow. 80mm fans are generally only marginally effective.
They should be adequate if you do not use a discrete graphics card.

I seriously doubt that a liquid cooler will help.
To cool the cpu better, it will need to take in cool air, removing one of the few air intakes to your case.

There are some better low profile coolers around than the stock intel cooler.

 

[The Original Ralph]

I'll try OCCT tonite, seen it mentioned in that intel thread. I forgot, i ran intel's PDT test, and it passed one time, and failed twice, indicating "CPU frequency failure, freq 5.8"

and i forgot to mention, for all tests i also dis-abled XMP in bios - don't the electrics behind it but it also increases dram voltage, dis-abling it reduced my ram freq to 1333 but dis-abling brings temps down a bit, a little for some folks, and more for others. Also forgot to list the graphics card: Asus Geforce GTX 750 Ti 2GB

and i dis-abled turbo boost - the 4790 will go to 4.0 with "turbo boost" but to be frank, like you suggested, i'm happy at 3.6 if i can run in the low 70s - intel max suggested operating temp for this cpu is 72.2C, for the "K" model, 74.4C

i agree the case is tight, but it fit a space at my work station perfectly and gave me the 2 5.25" external bays i wanted. I wish i could fit 120 or 140 fans, but three 80 x 25mm scythe fans blowing pretty decent cfm thru, with two of the fans or 1/2 of each of two fans blowing directly onto the intel cooler should boost it some

here's a shot of the PSU sitting directly above the CPU before the graphics card was installed

- the psu's fan is nearly the complete bottom surface area of the psu and is drawing air into the psu, so it's basically sucking any air between it and the CPU. My thinking was (and might still be) to fab a fiberglass baffle or divider, the full width of the psu and running from the back edge of the psu to the rear of the case following the green line you see detailed. That would force it to draw all it's air from the rear of the case as well as the sides, and reduce some of the negative pressure zone above the cpu

the thinking behind the H55 or H60 was that it would eliminate the issue altogether and open that area up some to let air move across the MB more easily. I was going to fab a small mount for the radiator on the outside of the case, at the rear, Do you just not like water cooling or is it the corsair units i mentioned?

BTW, MB temps are low, rarely hit 41C, usually 36-38C.

 

[The Original Ralph]

worked out my overheating issues, and figured i'd post what brought my temps down, for anyone else that finds this thread, as i posted in that thread on the intel community forum

okay - i un-installed the rest of the asus utilities (EZ Update, USB 3.0 Boost, and System information) - had zero effect on temps (i had already ditched the asus performance utility).

i then reset CMOS as well as RTC, went into BIOS and selected default settings, and dis-abled XMP and turbo boost - rebooted and ran XTU

idle temps were same 42-44C at avg 2% usage, and running the XTU stress test, saw 72-74C, 100% usage and .....drum roll.....3.80GHz cpu freq where i'd been at 2.80 max with current limit set to 56A to keep temps down,

went back into bios and enabled XMP - also looked for cpu power controls as i noticed turbo power boost was at 4094W and same for Short duration power boost in the XTU utility, but for whatever reason, everything is on "auto" with no other selection possible that might load the settings screen or options.

rebooted, ran XTU and with XMP enabled, idle temps were at 48-51C, but under stress test they "only" went up to 74-75C for most of the stress test with some spikes to 79-81C. Much much better than i had seen to date, and the cpu frequency is now at 4.0GHz, which is the spec'd boost freq for my 4790 (locked) cpu. I went into XTU manual controls to adjust the watt limits and current limit, (84W, 105W & 257A) but saw no change in XTU stress test

I then ran the benchmarking in XTU and got the highest score yet, 976, which was 2 positions down from the highest scores in the comparison graph online for my cpu.

considering my cpu resides in a SFF case and i'm still using the stock intel cooler, i'm happy - i believe with an improved cooler, those temps will come down some.

did a short video file for 5 minutes, and highest temp i saw was a single spike to 78, with 99% of the video transcoding at 72-74.

I don't know whether the asus utilities were "glitching" the intel PDT program before, but i ran it 5 times this afternoon, and it passed all five.times. FIngers crossed, i'll try this again later tonite and probably do it again for a few days - i'll definitely keep Real Temp running as a temp monitor

thanks to ken_intel, sampark1980 and everyone that contributed to this thread - for anyone else reviewing this thread, the changes that i noticed improvement in temps were the following

1) un-installing ASUS performance utility

2) clearing CMOS & RTC

and resetting to default settings.

 

[spooky2th]

Always glad to hear good news and thanx for posting your fix.