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Question I7 4790k Delided 4.9ghz are these safe temps??

fr0sty98

Reputable
Oct 23, 2015
147
1
4,695
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you probably wounldnt want it to get any hotter. else you could deal serious damage to the CPU.
INTEL would probably tell you no.
its very toasty.
Yeah i couldnt manage to get it stabble it was bsoding i needed 1.37v for 4.9ghz so i went down to 1.33volts 4.8ghz but temps get high aswell which is weird cpu is delided. 80 celsius max at cod warzone but they hover around 65-75c.
 

WildCard999

Titan
Moderator

CompuTronix

Intel Master
Moderator
Thanks, WildCard.

fr0sty98,

Each Microarchitecture has a “Maximum Recommended Vcore”. For example, it’s important to point out that 22 nanometer 3rd and 4th Generation processors will not tolerate the higher Core voltages of other Microarchitectures.

Here's the Maximum Recommended Vcore per Microarchitecture from 14 to 65 nanometers since 2006:


We know that over time, excessive voltage and heat damages electronics, so when using manual Vcore settings in BIOS, excessive Core voltage and Core temperature can cause accelerated "Electromigration". Processors have multiple layers of hundreds of millions of microscopic nanometer scale components. Electromigration erodes fragile circuit pathways and transistor junctions which results in the degradation of overclock stability, and thus performance.

Although your initial overclock may be stable, degradation doesn't appear until later, when increasingly frequent blue-screen crashes indicate a progressive loss of stability. The more excessive the levels of voltage and heat and the longer they're sustained determines how long until transistor degradation destabilizes your overclock. Decreasing overclock and Vcore may temporarily restore stability and slow the rate of degradation. Extreme overvolting can cause degradation in minutes, but a sensible overclock remains stable for years.

Each Microarchitecture also has a "Degradation Curve". As a rule, CPUs are more susceptible to electromigration and degradation with each Die-shrink. However, the exception to the rule is Intel's 14 nanometer Microarchitecture, where advances in FinFET transistor technology have improved voltage tolerance.

Here's how the Degradation Curves correspond to Maximum Recommended Vcore for 22 nanometer 3rd and 4th Generation, which differs from 14 nanometer 5th through 10th Generation:


Degradation Curves are relative to the term “Vt (Voltage threshold) Shift” which is expressed in millivolts (mv). Users can not monitor Vt Shift. With respect to overclocking and overvolting, Vt Shift basically represents the potential for permanent loss of normal transistor performance. Excessively high Core voltage drives excessively high Power consumption and Core temperatures, all of which contribute to gradual Vt Shift over time. Core voltages that impose high Vt Shift values are not recommended.

When tweaking your processor near its highest overclock, keep in mind that for an increase of 100 MHz, a corresponding increase in Core voltage of about 50 millivolts (0.050) is needed to maintain stability. If 65 millivolts (0.065) or more is needed for the next stable 100 MHz increase, it means you're attempting to overclock your processor beyond its capability.

Remember to keep overclocking in perspective. For example, the difference between 4.5 GHz and 4.6 Ghz is less than 2.3%, which has no noticeable impact on overall system performance. It simply isn’t worth pushing your processor beyond recommended Core voltage and Core temperature limits just to squeeze out another 100 MHz. But if you're really hell-bent to push it, then 1.325 is about as far as I'd go.

Here's the nominal operating range for Core temperature:

Core temperatures above 85°C are not recommended.

Core temperatures below 80°C are ideal.



Core temperatures increase and decrease with Ambient temperature.

Read this: Intel Temperature Guide - See Section 8, Overclocking and Voltage
CT :sol:
 

fr0sty98

Reputable
Oct 23, 2015
147
1
4,695
1
Thanks, WildCard.

fr0sty98,

Each Microarchitecture has a “Maximum Recommended Vcore”. For example, it’s important to point out that 22 nanometer 3rd and 4th Generation processors will not tolerate the higher Core voltages of other Microarchitectures.

Here's the Maximum Recommended Vcore per Microarchitecture from 14 to 65 nanometers since 2006:


We know that over time, excessive voltage and heat damages electronics, so when using manual Vcore settings in BIOS, excessive Core voltage and Core temperature can cause accelerated "Electromigration". Processors have multiple layers of hundreds of millions of microscopic nanometer scale components. Electromigration erodes fragile circuit pathways and transistor junctions which results in the degradation of overclock stability, and thus performance.

Although your initial overclock may be stable, degradation doesn't appear until later, when increasingly frequent blue-screen crashes indicate a progressive loss of stability. The more excessive the levels of voltage and heat and the longer they're sustained determines how long until transistor degradation destabilizes your overclock. Decreasing overclock and Vcore may temporarily restore stability and slow the rate of degradation. Extreme overvolting can cause degradation in minutes, but a sensible overclock remains stable for years.

Each Microarchitecture also has a "Degradation Curve". As a rule, CPUs are more susceptible to electromigration and degradation with each Die-shrink. However, the exception to the rule is Intel's 14 nanometer Microarchitecture, where advances in FinFET transistor technology have improved voltage tolerance.

Here's how the Degradation Curves correspond to Maximum Recommended Vcore for 22 nanometer 3rd and 4th Generation, which differs from 14 nanometer 5th through 10th Generation:


Degradation Curves are relative to the term “Vt (Voltage threshold) Shift” which is expressed in millivolts (mv). Users can not monitor Vt Shift. With respect to overclocking and overvolting, Vt Shift basically represents the potential for permanent loss of normal transistor performance. Excessively high Core voltage drives excessively high Power consumption and Core temperatures, all of which contribute to gradual Vt Shift over time. Core voltages that impose high Vt Shift values are not recommended.

When tweaking your processor near its highest overclock, keep in mind that for an increase of 100 MHz, a corresponding increase in Core voltage of about 50 millivolts (0.050) is needed to maintain stability. If 65 millivolts (0.065) or more is needed for the next stable 100 MHz increase, it means you're attempting to overclock your processor beyond its capability.

Remember to keep overclocking in perspective. For example, the difference between 4.5 GHz and 4.6 Ghz is less than 2.3%, which has no noticeable impact on overall system performance. It simply isn’t worth pushing your processor beyond recommended Core voltage and Core temperature limits just to squeeze out another 100 MHz. But if you're really hell-bent to push it, then 1.325 is about as far as I'd go.

Here's the nominal operating range for Core temperature:

Core temperatures above 85°C are not recommended.

Core temperatures below 80°C are ideal.



Core temperatures increase and decrease with Ambient temperature.

Read this: Intel Temperature Guide - See Section 8, Overclocking and Voltage

CT
:sol:
Thank you man that was very helpful ill try to improve my temps but keep 4.8 at 1.33v. I was reading alot before attempting to OC and delid and based on iformation i gained people were saying voltages are not what degrade cpu but heat.
 
Last edited:

CompuTronix

Intel Master
Moderator
... people were saying voltages are not what degrade cpu but heat.
Degradation has always been a controversial topic among overclockers on a quest to squeeze out another 100MHz. Opinions abound; especially when the "people were saying", are those who were not very well informed, and were simply regurgitating what other "people were saying".

Since Intel's launch of 14 nanometer processors in 2015, users have become accustomed to seeing Vcore numbers around 1.4 getting tossed around on forums like gorilla poo in a cage. Most who are new to overclocking and lack fundamental knowledge and experience simply jump to the conclusion that the older 22 nanometer microarchitecture tolerates the same Vcore. Not true.

As most users don't bother to research the topic, they're unaware that advances in FinFET transistor technology from 22 to 14nm encompass significant differences. Since they don't realize there are distinctions between microarchitectures, they assume that "one size Vcore fits all".

Not unlike malware, users will disregard degradation until it's experienced first-hand, when it gradually begins to cause intermittent instabilities, crashes, BSODs and software corruption, which can be very time consuming and difficult to troubleshoot and isolate.

Overclockers are typically unwilling to acknowledge or embrace the possibility that their CPU is beginning to show evidence of degradation, nor do they have much incentive to broadcast their excessive overvolting blunders.

Core voltage multiplied by direct current (amps) equals power (watts) which is driven by workload, that in turn drives Core temperature. Over time, these are the actual real variables that will cause transistor degradation due to Electromigration and Vt Shift.

Here's the degradation variables summarized in a list:

Voltage
Current
Power
Workload
Temperature
Time

The voltages and curves in the above graphs are not merely theoretical techno-babble; degradation is a reality, and it does happen when too much Vcore is applied, even if Core temperatures are not excessively high. If you click on the red links provided in my previous post, you can read for yourself the undisputable hard scientific proof behind Electromigration and Vt Shift.

If you look very carefully at the Vt Shift graph and closely examine the blue curve for 22nm processors, you can see that 1.325 volts is about as high as you should go. However, a simple rule of thumb for 22 nanometer 3rd and 4th generation processors is, if you don't want to risk degradation, then don't exceed 1.3 volts or 80°C.

The maximum recommended Vcore limits and supporting documentation have been made available for you to read and consider. Regardless, if this isn't what you want to hear, then you might prefer to just ignore it, and instead trust your CPU's longevity to what "people were saying".

CT :sol:
 

fr0sty98

Reputable
Oct 23, 2015
147
1
4,695
1
Degradation has always been a controversial topic among overclockers on a quest to squeeze out another 100MHz. Opinions abound; especially when the "people were saying", are those who were not very well informed, and were simply regurgitating what other "people were saying".

Since Intel's launch of 14 nanometer processors in 2015, users have become accustomed to seeing Vcore numbers around 1.4 getting tossed around on forums like gorilla poo in a cage. Most who are new to overclocking and lack fundamental knowledge and experience simply jump to the conclusion that the older 22 nanometer microarchitecture tolerates the same Vcore. Not true.

As most users don't bother to research the topic, they're unaware that advances in FinFET transistor technology from 22 to 14nm encompass significant differences.

Not unlike malware, users will disregard degradation until it's experienced first-hand, when it gradually begins to cause intermittent instabilities, crashes, BSODs and software corruption, which can be very time consuming and difficult to troubleshoot and isolate.

Overclockers are typically unwilling to acknowledge or embrace the possibility that their CPU is beginning to show evidence of degradation, nor do they have much incentive to broadcast their excessive overvolting blunders.

Core voltage multiplied by direct current (amps) equals power (watts) which is driven by workload, that in turn drives Core temperature. Over time, these are the actual real variables that will cause transistor degradation due to Electromigration and Vt Shift.

Here's the degradation variables summarized in a list:

Voltage
Current
Power
Workload
Temperature
Time

The voltages and curves in the above graphs are not imaginary; degradation is a reality, and it does happen when too much Vcore is applied, even if Core temperatures are not excessively high. If you click on the red links provided above, you can read for yourself the undisputable hard scientific proof behind Electromigration and Vt Shift.

If you look very carefully at the Vt Shift graph and closely examine the blue curve for 22nm processors, you can see that 1.325 volts is about as high as you should go. However, a simple rule of thumb for 22 nanometer 3rd and 4th generation processors is, if you don't want to risk degradation, then don't exceed 1.3 volts or 80°C.

The maximum recommended Vcore limits and supporting documentation have been made available for you to read and consider. Regardless, if this isn't what you want to hear, then you might prefer to just ignore it, and instead trust your CPU's longevity to what "people were saying".

CT :sol:
Hey man this is one of the best answers i have ever seen i guess im going back to 4.7ghz and 1.28volts . Thanks alot i guess there is alot of missinformation out there. I ussualy watch gamernexus and der8auer for all info on overclocking and deliding.
 
Reactions: CompuTronix
Dec 12, 2019
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Good cpu
My 4770k can do 4900mhz and 4400mhz ring with v1.35
But for better cooling i did 4800mhz and 4300mhz with v1.275 which very big jump from v1.35 down to v1.275
i did stress test for 6 hours and the maximum temp was 72c
BTW mine is Delided with D15 air cooling



Can you do a CINEBENCH 20 test?
 

CompuTronix

Intel Master
Moderator
... My 4770k can do 4900mhz and 4400mhz ring with v1.35
But for better cooling i did 4800mhz and 4300mhz with v1.275 which very big jump from v1.35 down to v1.275
i did stress test for 6 hours and the maximum temp was 72c
BTW mine is Delided with D15 air cooling
When tweaking your processor near its highest overclock, keep in mind that for an increase of 100 MHz, a corresponding increase in Core voltage of about 50 millivolts (0.050) is needed to maintain stability. If 65 millivolts (0.065) or more is needed for the next stable 100 MHz increase, it means you're attempting to overclock your processor beyond its practical capability.

You needed 75 millivolts (0.075) which indicates your 4770K was above its overclocking curve and wasn't actually capable of sustaining a 24/7 overclock at 4.8GHz. Also, if you read my 1st and 2nd posts, you saw why 1.35 Vcore is too high for 22 nanometer processors. Even at 1.3 Vcore, in many instances 22nm becomes challenging to keep under 80°C unless delidded with relatively high-end cooling. Of course, Direct-Die cooling yields the best results.

But at what ambient (room) temperature?
Running exactly which "stress test"?

It levels the playing field when these critical variables are stated up-front.

A steady-state true 100% workload is Prime95 v29.8, Small FFTs, all AVX disabled, which is ideal for testing thermal performance. OCCT v6.0.0, Small data set, No AVX is also a steady-state workload at about 97%, and is nearly identical to Prime95.

Can you do a CINEBENCH 20 test?
Although CineBench R20 is about a 100% workload, it's a fluctuating workload, which is not the best test method to check cooling performance. CineBench R15 is a lighter workload at at about 95% which, even when running a script for looping the test, it fluctuates much more frequently than CineBench R20. Core temperature numbers, even when logged, only provides partial information, but observing thermal behavior on a graph reveals a complete overview.

CT :sol:
 
Dec 12, 2019
19
2
15
0
When tweaking your processor near its highest overclock, keep in mind that for an increase of 100 MHz, a corresponding increase in Core voltage of about 50 millivolts (0.050) is needed to maintain stability. If 65 millivolts (0.065) or more is needed for the next stable 100 MHz increase, it means you're attempting to overclock your processor beyond its practical capability.

You needed 75 millivolts (0.075) which indicates your 4770K was above its overclocking curve and wasn't actually capable of sustaining a 24/7 overclock at 4.8GHz. Also, if you read my 1st and 2nd posts, you saw why 1.35 Vcore is too high for 22 nanometer processors, not to mention that even at 1.3 Vcore and delidded with good cooling, Core temperatures become challenging to cool under 80°C in many instances. Of course, Direct-Die cooling yields the best results.

But at what ambient temperature?
Running exactly which "stress test"?

It levels the playing field when these critical variables are stated up-front.

A steady-state true 100% workload is Prime95 v29.8, Small FFTs, all AVX disabled, which is ideal for testing thermal performance. OCCT v6.0.0, Small data set, No AVX is also a steady-state workload at about 97%, and is nearly identical to Prime95.



Although CineBench R20 is about a 100% workload, it's a fluctuating workload, which is not the best test method to check cooling performance. CineBench R15 is a lighter workload at at about 95% which, even when running a script for looping the test, it fluctuates much more frequently than CineBench R20.

CT :sol:
The test was in Intel(R) Extreme Tuning Utility for 6 hours which i did for just to make sure and i didnt use Prime95
by the way this oc 4.8 i have been use for 3 years without any bluescreen which for me is a good thing
i am using my pc for 10 hours a day like browse and playing games

Is there something i did wrong what do you recommend?
For CineBench R20 i got 2289
 

CompuTronix

Intel Master
Moderator
You definitely have an excellent top-tier 4770K, and 4.8 at 1.275 is better than some 4790K CPUs. Before the 4790K was launched, Intel stated that 5.0 on air would be possible, but after launch, it was soon discovered that only the top few percent could overclock that high with safe Core voltage.

I've built and overclocked six 4770K rigs and owned one. The best was stable at 4.7GHz with 1.285 Vcore. The worst was stable at just 4.1GHz with 1.3 Vcore, which was terrible.

Intel Extreme Tuning Utility is fluctuating workload that's peaks at only about 80%, which doesn't load your processor as heavily as CineBench R20, so your Core temperatures in IETU are lower than in CB R20.

If I might ask, why did you not run Prime95?
 
Reactions: 1ah1
Dec 12, 2019
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You definitely have an excellent top-tier 4770K, and 4.8 at 1.275 is better than some 4790K CPUs. Before the 4790K was launched, Intel stated that 5.0 on air would be possible, but after launch, it was soon discovered that only the top few percent could overclock that high with safe Core voltage.

I've built and overclocked six 4770K rigs and owned one. The best was stable at 4.7GHz with 1.285 Vcore. The worst was stable at just 4.1GHz with 1.3 Vcore, which was terrible.

Intel Extreme Tuning Utility is fluctuating workload that's peaks at only about 80%, which doesn't load your processor as heavily as CineBench R20, so your Core temperatures in IETU are lower than in CB R20.

If I might ask, why did you not run Prime95?
Funny thing i dont know how to config Prime95 too many settings
For Prime95 What settings to test my cpu and how long the test will take?

I did an cineBench r20 the temp was 70 average (even the fans are not in full 100%speed)


Another question Do ring voltage and System Agent effect temp because i did increase the ring voltage to 1.175 and System Agent offset +0.050
 

CompuTronix

Intel Master
Moderator
Yes, Ring frequency and voltage, as well as System Agent Voltage all affect Core temperatures, which are also affected by memory frequency and voltage.

Prime95 is actually quite easy to use. Here's a link to download it:

Prime95 v29.8

“Stress” tests vary widely and can be characterized into two categories; stability tests which are fluctuating workloads, and thermal tests which are steady workloads. Prime95 v29.8 Small FFTs (AVX disabled) is ideally suited for testing thermal performance, because it conforms to Intel's Datasheets as a steady 100% workload with steady Core temperatures. No other non-proprietary utility can so closely replicate Intel's thermal test workload.


Note: Click on the AVX test selections that are not greyed out so that all three AVX boxes are checked, as shown above.

Utilities that don't overload or underload your processor will give you a valid thermal baseline. Here’s a comparison of utilities grouped as thermal and stability tests according to % of TDP, averaged across six processor Generations at stock settings rounded to the nearest 5%:


Although these tests range from 70% to 130% TDP workload, Windows Task Manager interprets every test as 100% CPU Utilization, which is processor resource activity, not actual workload. Core temperatures respond directly to Power consumption (Watts), which is driven by workload. Prime95 v29.8 Small FFTs (AVX disabled) provides a steady 100% workload, even when TDP is exceeded by overclocking. If Core temperatures don't exceed 80°C, your CPU should run the most demanding real-world workloads without overheating.

It's all covered in the Intel Temperature Guide; just click on the link in my signature.

CT:sol:
 
Reactions: 1ah1
Dec 12, 2019
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Yes, Ring frequency and voltage, as well as System Agent Voltage all affect Core temperatures, which are also affected by memory frequency and voltage.

Prime95 is actually quite easy to use. Here's a link to download it:

... Prime95 v29.8

“Stress” tests vary widely and can be characterized into two categories; stability tests which are fluctuating workloads, and thermal tests which are steady workloads. Prime95 v29.8 Small FFTs (AVX disabled) is ideally suited for testing thermal performance, because it conforms to Intel's Datasheets as a steady 100% workload with steady Core temperatures. No other non-proprietary utility can so closely replicate Intel's thermal test workload.


Note: Click on the AVX test selections that are not greyed out so that all three AVX boxes are checked, as shown above.

Utilities that don't overload or underload your processor will give you a valid thermal baseline. Here’s a comparison of utilities grouped as thermal and stability tests according to % of TDP, averaged across six processor Generations at stock settings rounded to the nearest 5%:


Although these tests range from 70% to 130% TDP workload, Windows Task Manager interprets every test as 100% CPU Utilization, which is processor resource activity, not actual workload. Core temperatures respond directly to Power consumption (Watts), which is driven by workload. Prime95 v29.8 Small FFTs (AVX disabled) provides a steady 100% workload, even when TDP is exceeded by overclocking. If Core temperatures don't exceed 80°C, your CPU should run the most demanding real-world workloads without overheating.

It's all covered in the Intel Temperature Guide; just click on the link in my signature.

CT:sol:
I did 10 minutes test and Prime95 was easy to config



I will do a 6-8 hours tonight
 
Dec 12, 2019
19
2
15
0
Yes, Ring frequency and voltage, as well as System Agent Voltage all affect Core temperatures, which are also affected by memory frequency and voltage.

Prime95 is actually quite easy to use. Here's a link to download it:

... Prime95 v29.8

“Stress” tests vary widely and can be characterized into two categories; stability tests which are fluctuating workloads, and thermal tests which are steady workloads. Prime95 v29.8 Small FFTs (AVX disabled) is ideally suited for testing thermal performance, because it conforms to Intel's Datasheets as a steady 100% workload with steady Core temperatures. No other non-proprietary utility can so closely replicate Intel's thermal test workload.


Note: Click on the AVX test selections that are not greyed out so that all three AVX boxes are checked, as shown above.

Utilities that don't overload or underload your processor will give you a valid thermal baseline. Here’s a comparison of utilities grouped as thermal and stability tests according to % of TDP, averaged across six processor Generations at stock settings rounded to the nearest 5%:


Although these tests range from 70% to 130% TDP workload, Windows Task Manager interprets every test as 100% CPU Utilization, which is processor resource activity, not actual workload. Core temperatures respond directly to Power consumption (Watts), which is driven by workload. Prime95 v29.8 Small FFTs (AVX disabled) provides a steady 100% workload, even when TDP is exceeded by overclocking. If Core temperatures don't exceed 80°C, your CPU should run the most demanding real-world workloads without overheating.

It's all covered in the Intel Temperature Guide; just click on the link in my signature.

CT:sol:
I did 9 hours test
No Bsod

 
Reactions: WildCard999

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