i7 4790K possible bottleneck of RTX 2080?

[filip.kotlik]

Hi,

so the best will probably be list my specs first:

CPU: i7 4790k 4.4 ghz
MB: asus z97-ar
Ram: kingston 16 gb ddr3, 1866mhz
Gpu: rtx 2080 msi gaming x trio
Psu: fractal design 750W 80 gold
Windows 7
Monitor: LG 2560x1080, 75hz
Cpu cooler: noctua... (its massive)

The problem:
Recently i purchased the new rtx 2080 MSI gaming x trio. Upgrading from 980 ti, i thought my fps will fly trough the rooftop. Well that didnt happen. Actually i see only slight performance boost in games. I try to figure out where is the problem using msi afterburner and other build in benchmarks in games. The most problematic is the assassins creed odyssey and origins, where my fps drops under 30 fps, the avererage is 50. Msi afterburner shows that my cpu has 99% usage, and gpu only 60%. I tried to set Resolution modifier to 160% but fps stsyed the same, only gpu and cpu now both on 99%.

Another problematic game is for honor, where my fps is over 120 fps without supersampeling enabled, with it enabled it goes down to 50 fps, but i hsve to have it enabled and set the resolution modifier to 75% because when on the 120 fps, i am experiencing massive fps drops(especially when it rains ingame) from 120 to 30fps, sometimes it locks fps to 30 or 60 all by it self and its super game breaking when tryi g to be competitive, this is weird because vsync is disabled.

Another problematic game is kingdome come deliverence, where i noticed the slightest fps boost, game plays same as with 980 ti, 10 fps more max, textures load still incredibly slow like before, i thought that with more gpu performance this would be eliminated.

Anyway so far i tried: reinstall gpu drivers like 3 times, roll back to the older ones, bios update, nothing helps. I am suspecting is probably the cpu bottleneck but i saw many videos where people have better performance with those games. Also cpu usage hits 99% only in AC games, in for honor and KCD only around 70% So my question is: whst else may be the cause of this trouble? I heard that it may be the slow ddr3 ram, or even dx11 or windows7.

Sorry for long post, i tried to be as specific as i could

 

[Darkbreeze]

The 4790k probably IS a slight bottleneck on that card, even overclocked, compared to a much newer CPU also overclocked. It should however NOT be less performance or equal to the 980 ti.

I'd highly recommend that you update your motherboard bios, install the latest Z97 chipset drivers AND do a clean install of the GPU card drivers using the DDU.

http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-2767677/perform-clean-install-video-card-drivers.html

If it has been a long time since doing a clean install of Windows, that probably would be a very good idea as well.

http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-3567655/clean-installation-windows.html


You also need to realize that the 2000 series is a very immature platform. Optimized drivers and game profiles are early in their development. This is no different than any other generation early on. Likely, performance on these cards will get better as time goes on. You might also want to read this:

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/rtx-2080-ti-gpu-defects-launch,37995.html

You can be pretty sure that the TI's aren't the only model likely to be affected by similar issues.

 

[filip.kotlik]

The 4790k probably IS a slight bottleneck on that card, even overclocked, compared to a much newer CPU also overclocked. It should however NOT be less performance or equal to the 980 ti.

I'd highly recommend that you update your motherboard bios, install the latest Z97 chipset drivers AND do a clean install of the GPU card drivers using the DDU.

http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-2767677/perform-clean-install-video-card-drivers.html

If it has been a long time since doing a clean install of Windows, that probably would be a very good idea as well.

http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-3567655/clean-installation-windows.html

hi, thx for answer, so you suggest that the cpu isnt working properly because of old chipset drivers or old windows? as i said instaled this latest driver for that mobo which is from 2015, and also reinstalled the gpu driver three times without change. I am sure the new gpu is working properly, because as i force it to render higher resolution like 4k, it still prerforms playable framerate. This wasnt possible with 980 ti, the problem is that on my native resolution (2560x1080) the card performs same as 980ti did, but the usage is only around 60%, whereas 980ti had 100% usage. But something is preventing the rtx card to use its full usage...

 

[boju]

Using GeForce Experience?

 

[filip.kotlik]

Using GeForce Experience?

usually i use it, but this time I used the DDU, and then manually instaled from nvidia site

 

[boju]

usually i use it, but this time I used the DDU, and then manually instaled from nvidia site

Thats good, it's best to install drivers that way. What i meant sorry, do you use GE to optimise your games?

 

[filip.kotlik]

usually i use it, but this time I used the DDU, and then manually instaled from nvidia site

Thats good, it's best to install drivers that way. What i meant sorry, do you use GE to optimise your games?

no, i just play around with the settings and try to figure out what will give me the most satisfying quality/ perfrmance balance. I thought that with rtx 2080 on 2560x1080 resolution I will dont have to do that and just put everything to highest option. i mean the card is on 60% usage when everything set to ultra and still perfroms relatively good. But not as it should.

 

[boju]

no, i just play around with the settings and try to figure out what will give me the most satisfying quality/ perfrmance balance. I thought that with rtx 2080 on 2560x1080 resolution I will dont have to do that and just put everything to highest option. i mean the card is on 60% usage when everything set to ultra and still perfroms relatively good. But not as it should.

Setting your games yourself is the preferred way. GE can often apply too much antialaiasing and resolution scale or dsr, depending on game.

As said, 2080 is new and drivers for it should improve. It's possible certain Nvidia works exclusive settings in games could be buggy.

I'd update those other things suggested by Darkbreeze if possible. Maybe try an older Nvidia driver just in case newest drivers have introduced new problems.

https://www.geforce.com/drivers

Keep a lookout at Geforce forums as well for user feedback

 

[filip.kotlik]

no, i just play around with the settings and try to figure out what will give me the most satisfying quality/ perfrmance balance. I thought that with rtx 2080 on 2560x1080 resolution I will dont have to do that and just put everything to highest option. i mean the card is on 60% usage when everything set to ultra and still perfroms relatively good. But not as it should.

Setting your games yourself is the preferred way. GE can often apply too much antialaiasing and resolution scale or dsr, depending on game.

As said, 2080 is new and drivers for it should improve. It's possible certain Nvidia works exclusive settings in games could be buggy.

I'd update those other things suggested by Darkbreeze if possible. Maybe try an older Nvidia driver just in case newest drivers have introduced new problems.

https://www.geforce.com/drivers

Keep a lookout at Geforce forums as well for user feedback

Well, i am going to buy new windows 10 since, my win 7 doesnt support rtx features of the card, was thinking if it isnt time to upgrade the mobo, cpu and ram too. Since my setup is now 4 years old so, i was wondering if it wouldnt bottleneck the new rtx card, i saw some benchmarks on YT and the i7 8700k provides maybe 30% fps boost if not more, of course on lower resulotion like mine

 

[boju]

2080 is about the level of 1080Ti and 4790k isn't holding back a 1080Ti. Even my 2600k at 4.5 is running a 1080Ti decently (Win7). About 10fps difference from 8700k + 1080Ti.

Could just get Win10 retail and install it on your current system and see how you go then. Retail is easier to change to a new system if you upgrade. Nvidia's Win10 drivers are probably recommend for their new cards

 

[Darkbreeze]

Absolutely if you have Windows 7, I'd ditch it and get a Windows 10 license and then do a clean install. Do you have a 32bit or 64bit version of Windows 7?

 

[filip.kotlik]

Absolutely if you have Windows 7, I'd ditch it and get a Windows 10 license and then do a clean install. Do you have a 32bit or 64bit version of Windows 7?

64, hope it is like you say and will fix the problems, i didnt reinstall windows for 4 years so its worth to try, what about the ram speed? isnt 1866mhz too slow for todays standards, so threads where people claim that switching even to 2400mhz makes hell of diffrence.

I will be updating mobo cpu and ram for sure, just want some opinions if its worth it do do now or wait another generation, prices for mobos and rams are quite nice these days but the intel cpus are crazy expensive, would go with amd reyzen 7 2700x but that wouldnt be really big jump from i7 4790k would it?

 

[boju]

Ram speed matters more for Ryzen. 1866MHz is still very good.

Should be hearing more about DDR5/Pcie 4/5 platforms towards the end of next year. If i were you id hold out until then. 4790k is still very decent and fully compatible with Win10.

 

[filip.kotlik]

Ram speed matters more for Ryzen. 1866MHz is still very good.

Should be hearing more about DDR5/Pcie 4/5 platforms towards the end of next year. If i were you id hold out until then. 4790k is still very decent and fully compatible with Win10.

Sounds good, but i am afraid that if the trend with prices will go on, the new gen will not be very affordable. Well i will get the new windows licence, and will report with news, hopefully it will help

 

[Karadjgne]

Fps is set by the cpu. Resolution and almost all details are set by the gpu, which has to live upto what the cpu can put out. As it stands, your gpu is on the strong side, easily capable of matching the fps cap the cpu has set, which is why you didn't see much of an increase. Your games are not graphically challenging enough, and script heavy, which loads down the cpu and gives the gpu a break.

Supersampling is all gpu, has very little to do with the cpu at all. 1.4SS is about 2x the actual rendered pixels. 1.6SS is ~2.5x, 1.8SS is ~3.2x, and 2.0SS is ~4x. So it's no surprise that you're unable to do that. And that's regular 16:9 widescreen, not e en the additional pixels used for the 21:9 Ultrawide you have. At a 2.0SS you are basically pre-rendering @4.5-5k levels of pixels. If you have pre-rendered frames set for default 3 in nvidia control panel, expect serious fps drops on anything running a 2.0SS.

What's going to be hard is actually diagnosing the issue, especially concerning settings, because as darkbreeze mentioned, many games are yet to be decently optimized for the 2xxx series, many games, especially the DX11 titles won't respond well to dtss or Ray tracing.

Normally, an 8thread cpu as capable as the 4790k still is shouldn't be having issues with UW1080p unless it's a pretty abysmally optimized game to start with.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Absolutely if you have Windows 7, I'd ditch it and get a Windows 10 license and then do a clean install. Do you have a 32bit or 64bit version of Windows 7?

64, hope it is like you say and will fix the problems, i didnt reinstall windows for 4 years so its worth to try, what about the ram speed? isnt 1866mhz too slow for todays standards, so threads where people claim that switching even to 2400mhz makes hell of diffrence.

I will be updating mobo cpu and ram for sure, just want some opinions if its worth it do do now or wait another generation, prices for mobos and rams are quite nice these days but the intel cpus are crazy expensive, would go with amd reyzen 7 2700x but that wouldnt be really big jump from i7 4790k would it?

For your DDR3 platform, 1866mhz is actually faster than what most people were using when it was a current platform or even now, on those platforms. No problem with 1866mhz and actually back when that platform was current there were plenty of reviews showing there was very little benefit ON those DDR3 platforms from using faster memory when it came to gaming. It's fine.

 

[chemmajorp53]

I'm 99% sure that there's still a way to upgrade from Windows 7 for free if you have a genuine license, I followed this well after they stopped officially allowing it and it worked, not sure if they have turned off the servers since then though.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-how-you-can-still-get-a-free-windows-10-upgrade/

 

[Karadjgne]

Officially, the Windows 10 free upgrade was only 1 year after date of release. Unofficially, Microsoft held it open for a considerable time after that as long as you did it manually, they no longer pushed the free upgrade pop-up. It was unofficially shutdown earlier this year for puplic liscences.

 

[LordVile]

For some games yes but not to that degre.

Why are you using super sampling? It doesn’t do much but puts so much strain on the GPU

 

[filip.kotlik]

For some games yes but not to that degre.

Why are you using super sampling? It doesn’t do much but puts so much strain on the GPU

i am using it so the gpu actually works under full load, and not only 60% i have high cpu usage in almost every game

 

[Karadjgne]

Ohhh. You got it backwards. Both the cpu and gpu will always work at 100% ability. No matter what the settings, they'll be pushing data at whatever clocks they are set at. The load% is a capacity. So when the gpu is saying it's 60%, that means that for whatever settings/resolution you have set it takes 60% of the cards capacity to get that data on screen. But it still shoves that 60% through with 100% ability. Same for the cpu. If the cpu has 4 threads at 3.5GHz, 50% just means that when the game code is processed it takes 50% of the cpu to do that, but it'll get pushed through at 3.5GHz on as many threads as is needed.

By adding the supersampling, you aren't increasing performance over that 60%, you actually decrease performance as now the card has to work harder. By putting the card at 99-100% capacity, it has no room to move, so anything more means loss of fps as the flow of data slows down.

What would be better is removing cpu bound limits. In nvcp, lower grass detail, lower viewing distance. Make sure physX is gpu not cpu.

 

[filip.kotlik]

Ohhh. You got it backwards. Both the cpu and gpu will always work at 100% ability. No matter what the settings, they'll be pushing data at whatever clocks they are set at. The load% is a capacity. So when the gpu is saying it's 60%, that means that for whatever settings/resolution you have set it takes 60% of the cards capacity to get that data on screen. But it still shoves that 60% through with 100% ability. Same for the cpu. If the cpu has 4 threads at 3.5GHz, 50% just means that when the game code is processed it takes 50% of the cpu to do that, but it'll get pushed through at 3.5GHz on as many threads as is needed.

By adding the supersampling, you aren't increasing performance over that 60%, you actually decrease performance as now the card has to work harder. By putting the card at 99-100% capacity, it has no room to move, so anything more means loss of fps as the flow of data slows down.

What would be better is removing cpu bound limits. In nvcp, lower grass detail, lower viewing distance. Make sure physX is gpu not cpu.

Well there is no difference in fps anyway when supersampeling enabled, even when its enabled the gpu usage dips to 80% while cpu is on 100%, when cpu hits 100% my fps goes down to 30-40 fps and gpu usage goes to 60%, but when cpu is for example on 40%, my fps is over 100 frames and gpu usage on 100%... if is my knowledge right, this is considered cpu bottleneck. I just came here to discover why is it happening since everyone is telling me that i7 4790k shouldnt be a problem. well i installed clean new windows 10, and gonna set it up and download games over night, hope it will be fixed...

 

[Karadjgne]

I'm running an i7-3770K and never see over 55% in anything I run, even skyrim with over 130 2k/4k/5k/8k mods that are all highly script intensive so are all on the cpu. Normally games are not so 8 thread optimized as to be able to drive an i7 to 100%, so it's got to be something else that's overlooked, like HT is off or you are streaming while gaming or something else is running in the background like multiple Chrome tabs are open.

 

[filip.kotlik]

I'm running an i7-3770K and never see over 55% in anything I run, even skyrim with over 130 2k/4k/5k/8k mods that are all highly script intensive so are all on the cpu. Normally games are not so 8 thread optimized as to be able to drive an i7 to 100%, so it's got to be something else that's overlooked, like HT is off or you are streaming while gaming or something else is running in the background like multiple Chrome tabs are open.

HT is enabled, because i see load on all 8 cores, totally not streaming, and the chrome tabs dont make significant difference in framerate, its true i am used to have chrome running in background with 10+ tabs open, but even closing them, doesnt make much differance. Anyway i installed new windows 10, but it keeps deleting my gpu driver for no reason, dont know what to make of that...

 

[Darkbreeze]

NOT on 8 cores. On 4 cores and 4 hyperthreads. There's a very real difference. But even so, you can somewhat reduce the problems with the CPU by increasing the quality settings, that is not however going to help you gain more FPS.

I think that, like a lot of people, even with 8th and 9th gen CPUs or second gen Ryzen CPUs, that the bulk of your problem is likely due to the immaturity of the driver platform and a lack of adequate support so far on most titles for the 2000 series cards.

I'd keep checking and updating your Nvidia drivers, daily even just in case, and be sure to do a clean install of those drivers using the DDU EVERY time you update. I'd also check for updated z97 chipset drivers on Intel's website. Often, the motherboard manufacture fails to post newer chipset drivers after a certain point for platforms that are long in the tooth BUT which Intel has actually released newer chipset drivers (Intel .inf) for.

Even my Z170 Skylake i7 had an Intel chipset driver available that was much newer than what ASUS had for download on the Hero VIII product page. You won't get it from Microsoft through updates and you may not get it from your motherboard product page. You'll have to find it on Intel's website if at all.

Same goes for keeping the bios up to date as well if it isn't already.

As for the GPU card driver, you can probably turn off the Microshaft feature that does that. Make sure first though that you are completely up to date on all Windows updates first, then disable the automatic driver crap, then do a clean install of the Nvidia drivers.

http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-2763685/stop-windows-automatically-updating-device-drivers.html


http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-2767677/perform-clean-install-video-card-drivers.html


Z97 chipset drivers, which ARE in fact a whole year newer than those found on the Z97-AR product page:

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/product/82012/Intel-Z97-Chipset