I7 4790K vs I7 5820K

Edward144

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Hi, I know there's probably a million threads asking this question, but I'm at a point where I need to upgrade my PC and I'm not sure what to go for.

I use my computer for a fairly wide range of things. Gaming, photoshop, web and graphic design, and I'm just startin g to get into video editing and after effects. This is where I'm running into problems, after effects is constantly running out of memory and crashing, which has also lead to a blue screen.

My current specs are an I5 3570K overclocked to 4.4ghz, 16gb ram, 980ti

My two choices are either to buy an I7 4790K, Asus Z97-A motherboard, another 16gb of ram.

Or an I7 5820K, cheapest 2011-3 motherboard I found was a gigabyte GA-X99-UD3, and 32GB DDR4.

The price difference is about £180, money isn't really an issue its just a case of waiting another month, I'm not In a rush. So the higher end seems the better choice for long term, but if I go for the lower end option I could get the memory now and buy the CPU and motherboard later.

Any advice? Thanks
 

Ra_V_en

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I'll only point this... from my favorite channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikq6CJBv_uA

It's a dummy guide to get 5820k at 4Ghz, watch it carefully and notice what he say about effectiveness of OC.

Now the above guide is a no brainier, it's not a flip coin, actually with 4790k it's a flip coin since it's clocked very high already.

Now if you wonder how high that CPU might actually go, here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj4ixZE7EWo

So as you can see you can clock that Haswell as high as Devil's Canyon, so yes it's a flip coin but at clocks near 4,5 Ghz for both. Obviously it's harder to get the same clocks on 4790k with 5820k but not because of chip lottery, you need far better mobo (due to high amount of phases available iI would choose Asrock X99 and Extreme 4 is a starting point), certainly a bit more powerful PSU to handle that power draw and better cooler to dispel the heat... those 2 more cores has to be fed and cooled somehow right?

I've done this analysis myself few month ago and getting it as soon as I cope with renovating my new house.
I'm a mediocre gamer, but I do use PC not only for entertainment, I do lot of audio and video editing and encoding, lot of job around MSSQL and programming and designing in Archicad as a hobby and more. I'm a rationalist and don't spend cash for fancy stuff if don't convince myself i really need it. I make decisions based on facts not on hype or stream....
Now back to the point, if you care about few % more fps in some fancy AA title then yes even i5 might be nice and cheap way to achieve this, but if you do care about your workflow excluding gaming then there is not much of thinking here. Those 2 more cores might be overkill in few situations now but when I want to pedal to the metal I'd like to have some more horsepower instead of crying because lack of it. The fact that this horsepower is within the reach I only ask, why the hell I would want a handicapped CPU instead.

Now the argument about 6 or 8 cores in future makes the decision even simpler, you can put 8 core i7 or even more cored Xeon on X99 mobo but you can't put more then 4 cores on Z97 or Z170 mobo, if i need more i'll just sell this one on ebay and get better one since my platform supports it and the only thing i need to do is swap the CPU! I'm not gonna even start how cool is to have 8 DIMM slots considering possible future upgrades if you somehow need a ton of RAM.
 

utroz

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I was just thinking the same thing.. The paging file should automatically allow the hard drive or ssd to be used has virtual ram so it should not be crashing in after effects just running really crappy when he runs out of real Ram memory space and starts storing the data on the hard drive or ssd.
 

Ra_V_en

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Yeah page file suggestion is a good one, many stupid ppl out there suggest turning off paging file since "computer works faster" which only prove them being a morons without any knowledge how that works.

So first find out what is the reason of the crashes, then you can think is it worth to upgrade or not.
Since you seem to do a heavy workloads even a HT from i7 might give you some nice boost, but certainly 2 more cores coming from 5820k will be more vital. There is few pros and cons in each directions of upgrade:

- only RAM upgrade might solve this for a while but if it's about page file working on large projects might end up crashes sooner or later anyways... this is not the way. The only way to be sure is RAM upgrade worth is to observe RAM usage with task manager and/ or perfmon under heavy load.
- with 4790K upgrade you will be able to keep your current RAM so it might be best bang for the buck, but the only benefit comes from HT really since you will OC it to similar frequency as your current i5.
- with 5820k upgrade you will need also a RAM swap so cost will rise much more but the benefit from 2 more cores will be beneficial in multhithreaded environment... one but.... you will also need to OC it to 4Ghz or more to really shine over 4790k otherwise lower clocks will take down benefits coming from more cores. And with this in mind you might need a very good CPU cooler to keep all that TDP under control, CM EVO 212 is really the entry point but with recommendation of something even more powerful.
Skylake upgrade is out of option i7 6700k price is getting retarded at the moment.
 

boju

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Either that or his o/c (just thought about this now) is not 100% stable. Like running Prime95 using all ram, wouldn't know if testing on default memory usage.
 

utroz

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LinX is another good program that can test the memory and cpu to make sure his OC is stable..

 

boju

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Yea +1, saying if he used prime95 to test or IBT, both only use portion of memory by default. LinX is a good idea.

Anyhow either i7 choices 4790k/5820k will be a step up from his current cpu albeit already mentioned the 5820k requires DDR4.

But if you don't mind the price of a 5820k, extra 2 cores will help a lot + won't need to overclock as both will be fast enough allowing you to max out ram with next to no stability issues.
 

boju

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Also a good idea to keep to native memory frequencies without OC. Capacity and low timings will benefit you more in rendering than using the fastest possible ram requiring XMP (OC) also less chance of stability issues this way keeping to the boards original specs if maxing out memory dimms.
 

Ra_V_en

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Theoretical gain from 2 more cores will be 6/4= 1,5 but from frequency difference 4000/3300 = 1,21. Obviously in reality those numbers mean very little and in fact the gain from frequency is higher then from more cores due to scaling in multithreading nature. Based on pasmark scores the gain from 2 more cores is ~15% on stocks but only on fully threaded environment.... meaning put that i7 5820k at 4GHz which is really doable on any mobo without any hassle and you dispel any doubts here.

All in all I'm just saying it's really worth to OC that model since it's clocked very mildly at stocks so there is plenty of room for more.
 

Edward144

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Ok you've given me alot of things to think about here. When I get home I will check the page file for After Effects, I assume it would be turned on by default, and I definitely haven't turned it off. I would like to think my i5 overclock is stable, I've been running it for just over two years at 4.4 now and I tested it using prime95 at the time. Also FYI I'm using a corsair H110 for cooling with Noctua fans.

What I'm getting from everyone's answers is either to just upgrade to 32GB memory and use it as a quick cheap fix, or go for the 5820K. I would like to just go for the cheaper option, but I definitely want to get an i7 in the near future.

If I went for either i7 I would be planning on overclocking, hence why I'm choosing K versions. You say that the 5820K would have to be OCed to 4Ghz to really benefit over the 4790K, but if I got the 4790K and managed to overclock it to say 4.4Ghz, would I then have to get the 5820K to the same clock to benefit again. What sort of headroom do they each have for overclocking?

As for RAM overclocking I want to avoid it as much as possible, I tried it once but I couldn't properly figure out the timings and it was very unstable. I'm using Corsair Vengeance 1600mhz, which I know isnt fast by today's standards but I don't really care. But if I go for the 5820K I will most likely be getting 2400mhz RAM, if that will provide a substantial benefit?

Edit: Just an after thought, what about power consumption. I'm currently using a corsair AX860. I'll assume that it will still be able to handle the 4790K easily, but I'll probably need to upgrade if I go for the 5820K? So thats another cost to add to that option.
 

boju

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According to Corsair your psu is listed as 100% Haswell compatible http://www.corsair.com/en-us/ax860-atx-power-supply-860-watt-80-plus-platinum-certified-fully-modular-psu

Overclocks even stock speeds can appear stable, depends what you do with it and how much ram is tested all at once. Like after affects it pumps the ram so if there were instabilities you will soon find out.

Memory speeds don't really matter in rendering or games. Like i said capacity is more important and saying that if you were to populate all memory dimms on the motherboard, keep it to native speeds. You see motherboards with memory speeds 1333/1600/1866 then other speeds with (OC) beside it, those without OC are native speeds. If putting money in lots of memory, its just safer to go native rather than pushing your luck.

4790k will be faster stock speeds. 5820k is an easy overclock apparently - maybe look into that further. That's why i considered it over the 4790k if it's true. I thought if the 5820k was at 4GHz it could compete with the 4790K in speed and extra 2 cores you'll find useful in rendering.

You could overclock further with either CPU but i doubt after 4GHz won't notice much.

K versions have higher stock clocks than the non Ks of the same CPU, one of the reasons people go for them besides overclocking.

 

Ra_V_en

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I'll support previous answer considering OC of both i7's.
You can think this way... calculate the frequency difference between two frequencies and you will know theoretical speed up. In synthetic or very heavy CPU bound apps the correlation is almost linear.
Why I point 4Ghz on 5820k? Because it's confirmed a very practical ceiling, it gives decent boost but in many cases depending on mobo and chip lottery you don't even have to over-volt it, which also means it will not drain that much more power and will still be quite cool.
Obviously it can be clocked higher but it's harder and the above concerns kicks in.

You can also quick calculate theoretical difference in multithreaded performance just by adding up each core to the calculation.
So to make it as simple as possible...
If you will have 5820k @ 4GHz and 4790k @ 4,5 Ghz the single core boost will be close to (4,5/4- 1)*100 which is 12,5 % but if you count in cores its
4 cores x 4,5GHz = 18Ghz, 6 cores x 4Ghz = 24Ghz (24/18-1)*100 is still 33% more for 5820k over 4790k.
That numbers as said are theoretical and frequency correlation into real world performance is more linear then core count, it all depends how well an application is threaded, but as you can see there is lot of potential here.
Another thing is that it will be far easier to OC 5820k to 4GHz then 4790k to 4,5, I can assure you with closed eyes. That Devil's Canyon chip is already pushed to the limit.

I hope this will clear some things out.
 

boju

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Its pretty much flip a coin.

What kind of SSD could you get for £180 you say would be left if you went the 4790k?

Something to consider i guess. An SSD would go a long way for rendering and anything else. 4790K + extra 16GB memory.

Least you won't have 16GB DDR3 collecting dust :)

Make sure the kit you buy matches though in all specs, i think you're aware of that and always a chance the two kits being marginally incompatible with each other is a possibility. Most likely will be fine though.



 

Edward144

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Why did you have to say this, I was just about decided on going for the 5820k and now I don't know again.

I already have an 850 evo 250gb for OS but it's almost full and I have been considering getting another one to use for important files. I could do that and also get something like a 4tb HDD to use as archive storage I guess.

I would also like to avoid having old parts lying around, I've already got a few old things I've been unable to get rid of on eBay. The DDR3 I'm getting is the exact same model number as my current, so there shouldn't really be any chance of compatibility issues.
 

boju

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I can delete my answer if it will make you feel better :D

sorry we're all trying, we do wish you well. Either way you go about it will be solid so basically just the nit picks will determine your mind :)
 

Edward144

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Aha, no it's too late now I've already seen it :p Would the 5820k and DDR4 provide any major benefit for 4k gaming, that may be a way of narrowing it down. If not I'll probably go for the 4790k as I think it will sufficiently cover my needs.
 

boju

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GPU matters in 4k for the most part and will need 2 top end of those to showcase 4k decently. The CPU's we're comparing will have no bearing on the result and neither will memory, 1600 is good enough.

4k will be less scary with next gen Nv/AMD cards.

27" 1440p is plenty. To notice 4k - 40" and upwards monitor.
 

boju

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The only doubt of the CPU is when games start requiring 6 cores to run like Farcry4 is to 4 cores but i think it will be a long time before we start seeing games with 6core only requirements.
 

Ra_V_en

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I'll only point this... from my favorite channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikq6CJBv_uA

It's a dummy guide to get 5820k at 4Ghz, watch it carefully and notice what he say about effectiveness of OC.

Now the above guide is a no brainier, it's not a flip coin, actually with 4790k it's a flip coin since it's clocked very high already.

Now if you wonder how high that CPU might actually go, here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj4ixZE7EWo

So as you can see you can clock that Haswell as high as Devil's Canyon, so yes it's a flip coin but at clocks near 4,5 Ghz for both. Obviously it's harder to get the same clocks on 4790k with 5820k but not because of chip lottery, you need far better mobo (due to high amount of phases available iI would choose Asrock X99 and Extreme 4 is a starting point), certainly a bit more powerful PSU to handle that power draw and better cooler to dispel the heat... those 2 more cores has to be fed and cooled somehow right?

I've done this analysis myself few month ago and getting it as soon as I cope with renovating my new house.
I'm a mediocre gamer, but I do use PC not only for entertainment, I do lot of audio and video editing and encoding, lot of job around MSSQL and programming and designing in Archicad as a hobby and more. I'm a rationalist and don't spend cash for fancy stuff if don't convince myself i really need it. I make decisions based on facts not on hype or stream....
Now back to the point, if you care about few % more fps in some fancy AA title then yes even i5 might be nice and cheap way to achieve this, but if you do care about your workflow excluding gaming then there is not much of thinking here. Those 2 more cores might be overkill in few situations now but when I want to pedal to the metal I'd like to have some more horsepower instead of crying because lack of it. The fact that this horsepower is within the reach I only ask, why the hell I would want a handicapped CPU instead.

Now the argument about 6 or 8 cores in future makes the decision even simpler, you can put 8 core i7 or even more cored Xeon on X99 mobo but you can't put more then 4 cores on Z97 or Z170 mobo, if i need more i'll just sell this one on ebay and get better one since my platform supports it and the only thing i need to do is swap the CPU! I'm not gonna even start how cool is to have 8 DIMM slots considering possible future upgrades if you somehow need a ton of RAM.
 

Edward144

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Ok I think I'm just going to go for the 5820K, I've been back and forth several times now. I really thought when I posted this that everyone would just say to go for the 4790K and that the extra cores wouldn't make too much difference. But obviously thats not been the case.

I think it's probably the better choice for future proofing, I like the idea of having 8 memory slots if I ever need them, plus I didn't know Xeons were 2011 socket which is cool but I can pretty much guarantee I'll never need one. Also DDR4 will probably become much more common soon, and I'll have to change to it sooner or later.

I'm going to have to wait a few weeks anyway going for the 5820K, so I guess that gives me time to think and maybe change my mind again.
 

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