Question i9-13900k, i7-13700k, or i5-13600k for gaming/future 4k ?

[docboy]

Hi everyone,

I'm trying to plan a new build. Wanting to get the fastest cpu to "future proof myself" a bit and also scratch the itch for speed. Plan is to build a solid gaming rig that will last at least 5-7 years, plus allowing me an opportunity to try 4k gaming and/or possible coding in future. Biased towards Intel cpus.

I was dead set on getting i9-13900k along with an AIO cooler, but thanks due to this informative site, I'm reading that AIO coolers can fail due to leaks, etc. I don't really want to real with high maintenance repairs. So I'm having second thoughts, as air cooling seems more reliable.

So between the 13900k, 13700k, and 13600k, which cpu is the fastest one that can still be used with an air cooler?

Between the following air coolers: 1) Noctua NH-D15, 2) Peerless Assassin SE, and 3) be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4, BK022.... can either one cool the 13900k without throttling excessively? If not the 13900k, how about the 13700k, or the 13600k? Which air cooler would you recommend? Has anyone tried one of these air coolers on any or all of Intel 13th gen?

Thanks.

 

[Lutfij]

IMHO, you'd need to look into custom level watercooling if you're looking to hold onto the system for about 7 years tops. Why? Because as time goes forward, you might be seeing yourself overclock the processor higher or as time progresses the workload on the processor will increase causing it to heat up more.

So between your other watercooling option, AIO's are cheaper and relatively easy to maintain. Aircooling an i9 would be temporary or you need to make sure your room is airconditioned at all times.

 

[Deleted member 2838871]

Aircooling an i9 would be temporary or you need to make sure your room is airconditioned at all times.

I‘d agree. The air cooling option is better suited to the high end Ryzen chips that draw a lot less power.

 

[falcon291]

I‘d agree. The air cooling option is better suited to the high end Ryzen chips that draw a lot less power.

Or you must accept some downclocking. Every air cooler you mentioned are good, but yet not good enough for 13900 or 13700. If you want to go air you must accept that.

It is written that contact frame helps. Undervolting also helps. But with an air cooler still while gaming, reaching 100C and throttling is very much reality.

 

[TerryLaze]

The cheapest air cooling you can find will get you the official performance of about 250W
You only need to worry about more than basic cooling if you want to overclock way above 250W which is almost completely worthless since you will only get a very few percent improvement in performance for way too much increase in power.
The noctua will already run your CPU overclocked if you keep the default settings of the mobo.

Core i9-13900K Cooling Guide: Testing Intel's Flagship With Budget Air and Big AIOs

The Core i9-13900K can push even the most capable liquid coolers to their limits, but you don’t lose that much performance if you go with budget-priced air cooling.

www.tomshardware.com

The refresh is about to land so maybe wait for those if you can?!

 

[thestryker]

If you're careful about your AIO there's no reason it can't last, especially given that many are carrying 5+ year warranties now. My original Masterliquid Pro 240 still works fine (I replaced fans) and I got it 7 years ago and it was in my primary machine until ~1.5 years ago. The Arctic Freezer II I'm using now came with a 6 year warranty, and Arctic had backdated every Freezer II to the same warranty which speaks to their confidence in the product.

You'll definitely want a contact frame for any LGA1700 platform since you're planning on trying to keep it longer term.

I agree that you should try to wait on the 14th Gen refresh coming by the end of the year as we're going to see new motherboards (features will be largely the same, but there's a ton of talk of better memory clockspeed support) along with the refreshed RPL line.

Or you must accept some downclocking. Every air cooler you mentioned are good, but yet not good enough for 13900 or 13700. If you want to go air you must accept that.

It is written that contact frame helps. Undervolting also helps. But with an air cooler still while gaming, reaching 100C and throttling is very much reality.

Almost none of this is accurate as the D15 and Peerless Assassin are more than enough for stock power levels. Gaming will never see 100C unless there's something very wrong happening.

This is the last Tom's review I remember seeing with the 13900K and as you can see the AG620, which is DeepCool's budget twin tower, is good for over 270W (stock power level is 253W): https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amazon-basics-cpu-cooler-review/2

 

[docboy]

I ended up getting the 13700K. Deal was too good to pass up on Newegg during Prime Day. Since I'm not a heavy "productive" user and tests showing the 13700K OC can exceed the 13900K (not OC) during gaming, I chose the 13700k over the 13900K.

For cooling, I chose the Peerless Assassin 120. I was waiting it out and had high hopes for the Deep Cool Assassin IV, but I found the results underwhelming. So the PA 120 it is.

Check out the 2 videos below. It's informative and I found it non biased on the efficacy of air cooling during gaming. Tom's review posted above is good as well.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydmwatdUwR8

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YFR20MmvpM


As soon as I get my build up and running, I'll post results on cooling, esp if I find it insufficient.

 

[geofelt]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNFgswzTvyc

 

[falcon291]

Almost none of this is accurate as the D15 and Peerless Assassin are more than enough for stock power levels. Gaming will never see 100C unless there's something very wrong happening.

This is the last Tom's review I remember seeing with the 13900K and as you can see the AG620, which is DeepCool's budget twin tower, is good for over 270W (stock power level is 253W): https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amazon-basics-cpu-cooler-review/2

I don't know if you installed and run some tests on any 13th generation i7 or i9. It is true that on paper of Intel's these CPUs are 250W CPUs. But mainboard producers pushed these CPUs further (During tests , I saw the CPU was using a lot more than 250W) and then with default values temperature easily reaches 100C in tests and while gaming. The contact frame, undervolting all help to decrease throttling, but it was still there. I am on holiday and away from my computer.

By the way, the ambient temperature during my tests were nearly 30C and my case is not a very good case for cooling. But still.

There is a difference between Intel's stock power level and mainboard's stock power level. And if you want to use it with Intel's stock power levels, you need to adjust it accordingly, because out of the box it is not set so.

Let's see docboy's experience. I want to read it.

 

[TerryLaze]

But mainboard producers pushed these CPUs further (During tests , I saw the CPU was using a lot more than 250W) and then with default values temperature easily reaches 100C in tests and while gaming.

That's what the toms link shows, they run all tests with no power limits.
The amount of cooling you provide determines how much power the CPU can draw, if you only provide 250W of cooling your CPU can only draw 250W of power before throttling down.
If you only have a amazon basic cooler it will only cool 200W and your CPU will only be able to draw 200W.
So yes, it will always run at 100 degrees if you leave the mobo settings untouched and if the mobo settings are very aggressive.
That's why the benchmark also shows results with the power limited to 200W so that a 250W cooling can have some headroom and show lower temps.

Like the assassin 120 provides 245W cooling so at the 200W tests it keeps the CPU at 58 degrees.

At the end is up to you how you want your PC to run.

 

[ilukey77]

define future proofing with anything intel .. AM5 and a 7950x is a far better future proofing than anything Intel at this point !!
with ddr5 sweet spot at cl30 6000 ( quite cheap now ) and support for atleast another 2 gens maybe 3 AM5 is the smarter buy by a mile !!
despite the 7950x losing in most things to the 13900k the AM5 platform will be still supporting cpus past 15th gen and a new board all ddr5 ..
if you can slap maybe a 9950x into a AM5 platform which is highly possible there is 3 gens of cpu's on the same platform !!
im skeptical on how good 14th will be personally i think its a waste of a gen because 15th will be the new socket even with Intels refresh hang on to the socket life for another year it still cant beat AM5 for value !!

 

[TerryLaze]

define future proofing with anything intel .. AM5 and a 7950x is a far better future proofing than anything Intel at this point !!
with ddr5 sweet spot at cl30 6000 ( quite cheap now ) and support for atleast another 2 gens maybe 3 AM5 is the smarter buy by a mile !!
despite the 7950x losing in most things to the 13900k the AM5 platform will be still supporting cpus past 15th gen and a new board all ddr5 ..
if you can slap maybe a 9950x into a AM5 platform which is highly possible there is 3 gens of cpu's on the same platform !!
im skeptical on how good 14th will be personally i think its a waste of a gen because 15th will be the new socket even with Intels refresh hang on to the socket life for another year it still cant beat AM5 for value !!

AM5 already uses up the whole 230W limit for the 7950x which means that there is not much room for newer CPUs to be so much better that it will be worth it to upgrade on the same platform in 4-5 years.
Even if they get 3nm on the same AM5 mobos it will only be a 15% increase in speed.
Or 30% more cores but then at the same speed which would rub many users very wrongly.

https://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/technology/logic/l_3nm

N3 technology will offer up to 70% logic density gain, up to 15% speed improvement at the same power and up to 30% power reduction at the same speed as compared with N5 technology.

 

[ilukey77]

AM5 already uses up the whole 230W limit for the 7950x which means that there is not much room for newer CPUs to be so much better that it will be worth it to upgrade on the same platform in 4-5 years.
Even if they get 3nm on the same AM5 mobos it will only be a 15% increase in speed.
Or 30% more cores but then at the same speed which would rub many users very wrongly.

https://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/technology/logic/l_3nm

yeah but Intel brute forcing there figures isnt working to well either the 7800x3d is far more efficient than the 13900k and still trades blows in alot of games ..

the only reason the 7950x3d ( while slightly behind in production) isnt beating/ matching the 13900k in EVERTHING is because AMD hasnt got the stacking correct on the higher x3d cpu's

Can intel actually deliver powerful efficient cpu's ??

while alot of countries getting higher and higher power costs and restrictions Intel cannot keep brute forcing there wins with huge power draw and heat ..

soon people will be strapping car radiators on there Intel flagships to keep them cool !!

Also i highly doubt either company will be building a next few gen crushing CPU..

If Intel brough out the ultimate 15th gen 5 year crushing cpu they firstly couldnt sell it for $5000usd to compensate for the 5 gens its going to crush and who would pay that much any way !!

Its always in there best interest to keep their gains small each gen 15% here 10% there im almost 100% positive AMD has the 9000 series all but ready to go and AM6 and what ever the ( dont think AMD will go the 10000 series ) already designed !!

 

[TerryLaze]

yeah but Intel brute forcing there figures isnt working to well either the 7800x3d is far more efficient than the 13900k and still trades blows in alot of games ..

the only reason the 7950x3d ( while slightly behind in production) isnt beating/ matching the 13900k in EVERTHING is because AMD hasnt got the stacking correct on the higher x3d cpu's

Can intel actually deliver powerful efficient cpu's ??

Can intel put the same size cache onto a CPU?
Yes.
Look up intel CPUmax and GPUmax
Whenever intel decides to do that ryzen will lose any advantage they have from x3d, there is nothing magic about that, we already saw previous intel desktop gens gain a lot of performance/efficiency because of a bigger cache.

while alot of countries getting higher and higher power costs and restrictions Intel cannot keep brute forcing there wins with huge power draw and heat ..

At default settings with the 7950 using 230 and the 13900 using 250W ryzen is 3% faster with 10% less power, a 13% difference isn't going to change anybody's mind especially if you get better performance in the things you want.

Also countries that have higher power cost will be very conscious about burning power when they don't need to and ryzen uses more than twice the power in idle (6.4 vs 15.7) and about 22-24% more in single threaded (43vs52) .

Core i9-13900K, i7-13700K & i5-13600K: Gaming-Könige im Test: Leistungsaufnahme und Effizienz

Intel Raptor Lake im Test: Leistungsaufnahme und Effizienz / Leistungsaufnahme in Anwendungen ab Werk / Der Verbrauch steigt

www.computerbase.de

 

[ilukey77]

Can intel put the same size cache onto a CPU?
Yes.
Look up intel CPUmax and GPUmax
Whenever intel decides to do that ryzen will lose any advantage they have from x3d, there is nothing magic about that, we already saw previous intel desktop gens gain a lot of performance/efficiency because of a bigger cache.

At default settings with the 7950 using 230 and the 13900 using 250W ryzen is 3% faster with 10% less power, a 13% difference isn't going to change anybody's mind especially if you get better performance in the things you want.

Also countries that have higher power cost will be very conscious about burning power when they don't need to and ryzen uses more than twice the power in idle (6.4 vs 15.7) and about 22-24% more in single threaded (43vs52) .

Core i9-13900K, i7-13700K & i5-13600K: Gaming-Könige im Test: Leistungsaufnahme und Effizienz

Intel Raptor Lake im Test: Leistungsaufnahme und Effizienz / Leistungsaufnahme in Anwendungen ab Werk / Der Verbrauch steigt

www.computerbase.de

so why havent Intel stacked cache yet they have lost on 2 gens now the 5800x3d and the 7800x3d both beating Intels flagship for 2 gens now in gaming why??

Because they dont need to ??

Thats like AMD only competing with Intel ARC gpu's because they dont need to swing at Nvidia !!

I have nothing against Intel CPU's what keeps me buying AMD ( and i have a and have had a 3700x 5600x 5800x3d 7600x and the 7800x3d ohh and a 10850k which i think is a excellent cpu i just wouldnt use intel for my main pc ) is socket life and x3d i have no doubt in my mind that ive already bought the 8000x3d cpu and a 9000x3d cpu if still on the AM5 platform

 

[Nighthawk117]

So between the 13900k, 13700k, and 13600k, which cpu is the fastest one that can still be used with an air cooler?

The 13900K is likely to be no more future proof than the 13700K in games. The 13900K and 13700K will most likely maintain their gaming performance better over time thanks to the 2 extra P cores. I'm assuming that based on the fact previous i9 and i7 parts have aged better than their i5 counterpart's over the long term. There is little difference between these CPU's today.

It's impossible to predict how long these CPU's will deliver acceptable performance in games, however 5 years should be achievable. They will run things beyond that but performance may or may not meet your needs. I don't know what sort of 'coding' you would like to do, but I would say you would have to be doing something very serious for any of the Intel CPU's to be insufficient.

As for AIO coolers, it's actually quite rare for them to leak these days. How long they will last is dependant on the environment in which they are used. I used one for 6 years straight before I replaced it for something more powerful. I've never had one fail on me, if I remember correctly the pump on my AIO is rated for around 50,000 hours which I believe is the norm.

The 13600K could be used with a high end air cooler, the 13900K and 13700K are pushing things a little but you can undervolt the CPU's. I personally would not use the 13900K with anything less than a top end AIO, I probably wouldn't with the 13700K either. 360mm or 420mm would be what I would aim for.

An alternative if you want longevity is to go AM5, a few years from now you could drop in another CPU. If you wanted whatever you buy today to last as long as possible and you want to run on air cooling then the 7950X3D might well be a better choice but it's expensive.

 

[TerryLaze]

so why havent Intel stacked cache yet they have lost on 2 gens now the 5800x3d and the 7800x3d both beating Intels flagship for 2 gens now in gaming why??

Because they dont need to ??

Thats like AMD only competing with Intel ARC gpu's because they dont need to swing at Nvidia !!

The FX line was also very competitive in games vs intel of the time and was often winning, it's nothing new. So did the first gen ryzen and so on.
AMD winning in gaming or even in productivity is not making intel release anything sooner or hurry along any development, unless it's a huge jump above intel which x3d isn't.
They just released CPUmax to servers and they are going to take their sweet time to trickle it down to desktop because even without it they still have 80% market share on desktop.
They are not as desperate as to kill the sales of their main line of CPUs like AMD is doing with the x3d cpus, when intel will do it all their core lineup will have that feature without any loss in temps or performance, you won't have to decide between one or the other or have to outright disable half your CPU to get the benefit of each.

 

[ilukey77]

The FX line was also very competitive in games vs intel of the time and was often winning, it's nothing new. So did the first gen ryzen and so on.
AMD winning in gaming or even in productivity is not making intel release anything sooner or hurry along any development, unless it's a huge jump above intel which x3d isn't.
They just released CPUmax to servers and they are going to take their sweet time to trickle it down to desktop because even without it they still have 80% market share on desktop.
They are not as desperate as to kill the sales of their main line of CPUs like AMD is doing with the x3d cpus, when intel will do it all their core lineup will have that feature without any loss in temps or performance, you won't have to decide between one or the other or have to outright disable half your CPU to get the benefit of each.

Intel have nothing left to fight AMD on anymore AMD owns consoles AMD owns server AMD is slowly taking APU's with handhelds all the have left is desktop and they are losing that at a alarming rate with gaming being the true seller of cpu's and thats where the x3d while not dominating in every game they are surely hurting Intel ..
The 7950x3d is not a great example to use as true perfection of X3d on a cpu is yet to come as it is now its not great being one half stacked cache basically making it a expensive 7800x3d ..

while Intel screw around trying to even ( if the even are ) implement cache stacking AMD are perfecting the process !!

while purely hypothetical what if AMD releases x3d every thing 8600x3d as the budget 8800x3d as mid tier and a 8950x3d as your top tier price them well why even bother with x versions or non x's if these cache cpus are what people usually chase..
maybe ad the odd budget budget cpu 8600x or 8700x thats it !!
they need only sort the cache stacking on say the 8950x3d and Intel will be dust !!

while it may look like me hating on Intel we need a consumer friendly better positioned Intel as consumers other wise AMD will just take the Nvidia approach we are the best your dumb shut up and buy our products with only 2 players ( atm ) in the cpu game AMD are taking far to much off Intel and at this point Intel are sitting on their hands going MEH okay !!

 

[TerryLaze]

Intel have nothing left to fight AMD on anymore AMD owns consoles AMD owns server AMD is slowly taking APU's with handhelds all the have left is desktop and they are losing that at a alarming rate with gaming being the true seller of cpu's and thats where the x3d while not dominating in every game they are surely hurting Intel ..

Every single segment of AMD is below 20% ,except for overall because of the consoles and handhelds and even that is just at about 30% .

AMD and Intel CPU Market Share Report: Recovery on the Horizon (Updated)

Hope is on the horizon, mostly.

www.tomshardware.com