Question i9-9900K now or wait?

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R_G_S

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Darkbreeze

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Not having a backplate cutout isn't an "issue" other than it makes changing the CPU cooler a real PITA. That armor, IDK, seems as though it shouldn't affect anything so long as the standoffs are taller than the armor is. If they are, then the height should be unchanged.
 
The rumored intel 10 core 14nm will probably not even be able to hit 5ghz without a custom water cooling setup. Even if it can, it will probably be knocking on the door of 250+ watts when hitting full load. The 9900k already pushes the limits of 280mm and 360mm aio coolers when running vcore at 1.35 volts.
Going to assume Intel will probably find the one or two CPUs out of 100 or so that have at least one core hit 5.1 (or perhaps 5.2 GHz to 'sound' faster than AMD's rumored 5.1 GHz offering?) at a not-too high of a clock speed, with not too high of a core voltage, and probably lucky to maintain an all core turbo of 4.7 GHz or so, just to avoid going backwards on gaming performance...; i suspect your 200-250 watt power draw estimates will be quite accurate if/when approaching close to 5 GHz on all cores based on their past offerings... It would seem the only way to maintain a 'claimed' 95-100 watt TDP with 10 hyperthreaded cores (with a semi-straight face, anyway), would be to lower all-core turbo action to down 4.5 GHz or so, which might detriment gaming performance.... (Can't imagine Intel would allow backwards performance in gaming with a new flagship, not with AMD's new offerings making such strides)

On top off everything else, I'm hearing new Z490/495 series motherboards will be required for the next Intel refresh of desktops, likely unpopular, but, I can't imagine many 8700/9700K/9900K owners will yet be truly be feeling strong upgrade 'needs' just yet anyway)
 
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Is your PC builder local? I was looking through the thread and got the impression that they may be shipping the PC to you. That puts a whole new light on it. I would talk to my builder about their experience (and warranty) before shipping a PC with a D15, D15s, or Grand Macho on the MB. My first custom PC had a Mugen 2 SCMG-2000 (870g presumably with fan) on it which I later discovered was bent- presumably during shipping. Of course, he may not have packed the inside of the case well.

I wanted to see what Puget (who ships) does with their non-overclocked i9-9900K builds. They put a NH-U12s cooler on there and there is no option to change it.

Here are the weights:

D15: 980g, 1320 with 2 fans
D15s: 980g, 1150 with fan
U12s: 580g, 755 with fan
U12a: 760g, 1220g with 2 fans
Le Grand Macho: 960g (presumably with one fan)
Scythe Mugen 5 Rev B: 890g (presumably with one fan)

I would be inclined to go with the U12a ( a step up from the U12s) shipping with the fans in a separate box and clip on the fans myself when it arrived. On the other hand, it may be difficult to plug into the fan headers on the MB with the MB already installed in the case. Hummmm....maybe the Mugen B which would be the same level as the U12a, I think (but pack it better than they did my Mugen 2) The Mugen 5 is offset, though IIRC, so only one orientation and that is rear exhaust. However, the builder should be able to guide you based on their experience. Maybe the U12s.
 
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Darkbreeze

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I absolutely agree. If this is being shipped, you do not want that cooler, or any large cooler, to remain mounted during shipping. Even well packed units can be damaged. You'd be wise to simply have them ship the cooler not installed, or buy the cooler separate, and then install it yourself or take it to a local shop for installation and then transport the case home lying flat on it's side, gently.

If none of that is an option, then you might want to rethink the idea of going with a water cooled configuration. Shipping a system with a big water cooler isn't an issue.

Seems to me though like that probably isn't the situation since he has clearly talked about using his existing case and it's unlikely he plans to ship the case to a builder and then have it shipped back.
 

R_G_S

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Hi guys, thanks for all the info. Not got time right now, but will mull over it this eve and post a proper reply later.

Just quickly; I'll be getting the system from PCSpecialist (https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/). They're about a 3 hour drive from where I live. I was intending to send my case to them (there's an option for this) and then they would fit the parts and send it back. Whilst the D15/15S/U12A isn't offered on their site, they confirmed they'd happily order and fit one. I note however that they do give the option of the U14S as a 'standard' part, so presumably they are confident shipping rigs with large air coolers. I will be taking their 3 year Platinum Warranty (https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/warranty/) - if anything was damaged on arrival I can't imagine they would not fix it ASAP.

I'll phone them and ask about how they transport the PC, with regards to the larger air coolers and potential damage.
 

Darkbreeze

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U14S is a single "thin" stack. These others, not at all. They are thick double fin stack coolers. They weigh twice to three times as much.

The U14S weights 935 grams.

The D15s weighs 1150 grams. The D15 weighs 1320 grams. The U12A weighs 1220 grams.

Might be worth making the three hour drive to pick it up at least, because then you could at least make sure it's well packed and that it's handled carefully. As well, that it is kept laying flat, on the right hand side panel, so the CPU cooler is in a vertical position during the trip rather than horizontal where ever single bump and bounce applies fulcrum force to the socket and motherboard.
 

Darkbreeze

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It's an ok cooler. Very good for the price, but probably not in the same category as these others. IMO Scythe rides mainly on their laurels from before the restructuring that happened. Most of their products are not nearly as good as what they were known for back then. But they are certainly better than a good many other companies, no question.

I would not put them in the same category as Noctua and Thermalright though.
 

Darkbreeze

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I'm honestly not too sure that the U14S will do that well on the 9900k, if he goes that way, even though it's usually one of my main recommendations due to price and the fact that it does exceedingly well, usually up to or near much larger more expensive coolers, and keeps my 6700k@4.7Ghz in the low 70's running Prime. It's an option, but again, WORKING and working at noise levels that allow for sanity, which I'm not sure it would be under all core boost conditions on that CPU or other high core high TDP processors, might not be the same thing. But I'll concede that it's possible. I suspect that it and the U12A probably have similar performance characteristics and that the U14S is probably actually either similar or quieter than the U12A. Especially with the A14 fans on it. I'm not a fan, no pun intended, of the A15 fan's specific harmonies. It's quiet, but has a weird tone.
 

NightAntilli

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There are multiple websites out there that have tested coolers with different configurations... It gives a good overview of what's available and their performance.

Here's a good test which shows where each cooler sort of lands. It doesn't have the U12A, but it does have a great compilation of other coolers, including the Scythe Ninja, Scythe Mugen 5, Noctua D15, Thermalright Macho Direct, Thermalright TrueSpirit 140 Direct and a bunch more;
https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8925/scythe-ninja-5-cpu-cooler-review/index6.html

According to TechPowerUp, The U12A is max 2°C hotter than the D15 when running Prime95 or AIDA with an OC 8700K.
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Noctua/NH-U12A/6.html

We have this user post on SilentPCReview comparing the D15, U12A, HR22 and Mugen 5. Unfortunately you have to register to see the numbers, but his description is helpful;
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=610157#p610157

Lastly we have our beloved friend Linus, beating a bunch of liquid coolers with his U12A;
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23vjWtUpItk
 

Kkkk1

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The 9900k is complete waste of money IMHO. I say this as someone who owns one. The only reason I even bought mine was it was included in used system that was a ridiculously good deal. It is also a binned chip that can do 5.2ghz at 1.4 volts. I build and flip systems as a hobby. I've played around with just about every current CPU from both AMD and Intel. An overclocked 2700 is a considerably better value than anything Intel has to offer. It's not even close. The 9900k is significantly harder to tune/get stable, uses way more power, and runs ridiculously hot when compared to a 2700/2700x.

That being said, if you're already planning on picking up a 2080ti (which is also an incredibly terrible value), it's not that big of an extra expense in context of the entire system cost. It's not that the 2080 ti and 9900k aren't best in class in terms of performance....they are. It's just a hard pill to swallow when you can get close to that performance for a lot less money.



I could't agree more. All signs point to the consumer desktop CPU market being turned completely upside down when AMD launches zen 2 in the next few months . This is a terrible time to build a new high end system. Navi will probably only be a player in the mid-range and low end initially from what the rumors are saying. They won't even try to play in the hi end until next year.

The rumored intel 10 core 14nm will probably not even be able to hit 5ghz without a custom water cooling setup. Even if it can, it will probably be knocking on the door of 250+ watts when hitting full load. The 9900k already pushes the limits of 280mm and 360mm aio coolers when running vcore at 1.35 volts.
To be honest I very recently was considering the 9900K purely for gaming but in the end decided to buy a 9700K OC@ 5gz for about £200 cheaper. OK I don't get the hyperthreading cores but these won't be used in gaming anyway. The best decision I ever made. I did consider the Ryzen 2700K but from a purely gaming perspective I thought the extra cost for the 9700K 5Ghz was worth it.
 
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Darkbreeze

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That's not exactly right. Hyperthreading is used in gaming, or applications, or for operating system processes. It's used anytime they are needed. I've never before heard anybody try to indicate that games don't use hyperthreads. They do. If they need to or are optimized to be able to use more cores than what are physically present.
 
Games do indeed use hyperthreading, but can lower performance compared to it disabled, if not properly coded for.
I don't believe you can make software "HT aware" unless you use specific libraries that, on their own, are aware of it when compiling. You're, most of the time, at the mercy of the scheduler and, to be honest, that's the way it should be. You can't outsmart the OS scheduler or you'll be in big trouble in different OS versions.

Now, that doesn't mean you can't write software knowing it will be used under HT, but that's a whole different approach and a ridiculous one IMO. When you thread, you want to thread based on logical and algorithmic reasons, not underlying hardware (exception being, time critical applications; games are hardly this).

Intel and the theory behind SMT has stated there's an inherent penalty for types of threads when they fall under a "secondary thread", so you have to trust the OS, again, to know which type of thread will run and how. If all else fails, just disable HT or core-park (what I usually do for some stuff).

Cheers!
 

R_G_S

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Hi guys,

Sorry for not responding sooner, have been redecorating and had to disassemble the computer.

I will be going with either the 9900K or whatever replaces it, unless that chip isn't due till end of this year/early next (that's assuming similar speeds and 10 cores). I'm just waiting on word from Intel before pulling the trigger, hopefully later this month.

I am pretty sure I'll be sticking with my TJ07 as the only options I like as much are a couple of Lian Li cases both which cost ~£360 or more... (PC-V760, PC-D600WA).

As I understand it the U14S is 165 mm tall and thus not certain to fit (case max listed at 162 mm) - the choice seems to be between the D15S (160 mm) and U12A (158 mm). I keep going from one to the other; I like the smaller size of the 12A, but the 15S might just edge it in terms of performance.

Depending on the review it seems that there's only a small (1-2 degrees) difference in cooling, with noise levels also being comparable. Noise is an issue for me as I have had a cooler in the past which was quite irritating (Zalman CNPS9700 on a QX6700, I think). I'm planning on using all Noctuas for the case; 4 x NF-S12A (120 mm) and 2 x NF-A9 (92 mm). The default setup is to use the 2 x 92 mm at the rear as intake and 2 x 120 mm at the top as exhaust, but currently uncertain as to the best arrangement and indeed orientation of the CPU cooler (the remaining 2 120 mm fans are for the drive bays in the base). Case here for reference: https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=92&area=en

Thanks again!
 
Hi guys,

Sorry for not responding sooner, have been redecorating and had to disassemble the computer.

I will be going with either the 9900K or whatever replaces it, unless that chip isn't due till end of this year/early next (that's assuming similar speeds and 10 cores). I'm just waiting on word from Intel before pulling the trigger, hopefully later this month.

I am pretty sure I'll be sticking with my TJ07 as the only options I like as much are a couple of Lian Li cases both which cost ~£360 or more... (PC-V760, PC-D600WA).

As I understand it the U14S is 165 mm tall and thus not certain to fit (case max listed at 162 mm) - the choice seems to be between the D15S (160 mm) and U12A (158 mm). I keep going from one to the other; I like the smaller size of the 12A, but the 15S might just edge it in terms of performance.

Depending on the review it seems that there's only a small (1-2 degrees) difference in cooling, with noise levels also being comparable. Noise is an issue for me as I have had a cooler in the past which was quite irritating (Zalman CNPS9700 on a QX6700, I think). I'm planning on using all Noctuas for the case; 4 x NF-S12A (120 mm) and 2 x NF-A9 (92 mm). The default setup is to use the 2 x 92 mm at the rear as intake and 2 x 120 mm at the top as exhaust, but currently uncertain as to the best arrangement and indeed orientation of the CPU cooler (the remaining 2 120 mm fans are for the drive bays in the base). Case here for reference: https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=92&area=en

Thanks again!
I might measure that distance myself from the MB to the side panel of the case. From that previous video I linked, you can see that he put a D15 (not s) in that case, though it doesn't show him closing the side panel IIRC. The D15s would cool bit better and be a bit quieter than the U12a, but I don't think could be oriented to exhaust out the top.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4UAu4w2Wag

Oh, I see that you already measured your case at 186mm. I trust your measurement. I would go with the D15 as long as you get the shipping issues worked out to your satisfaction. If not, just go with the U12a which is a step up from what Puget uses (the U12s) and can be oriented in either direction. Either will work fine. Quit worrying!

Here is an interesting review on the U12a if you haven't seen it:

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAE6Wce9Pa8[/URL]"]www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAE6Wce9Pa8[/URL]
 
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Darkbreeze

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Not sure why anybody thinks you would need to orient the CPU cooler any differently that what's recommended for practically all other builds, however I notice that has ZERO intake fans that feed the main chamber where the motherboard and CPU are housed. This is a major concern for any high TDP CPU and graphics card setup.

I'm sorry to have to be the detractor here it seems, but I would have BIG reservations about using this case with this type of system. It really doesn't matter, at all, what CPU cooler you use if you can't feed fresh ambient air to it. For me, this would be a no go unless I am missing something about this aspect of the case. Perhaps the front panel can be modded to accept a couple of 120/140mm fans? Not sure if you are the type to undertake a case mod, but that is the only way I'm seeing this case as being fit for the intended use regardless of what anybody else says.

Those two intake fans in the side exhaust cleanly out the opposite panel, so they do nothing for the main chamber or any of it's components. That's a huge problem. An insurmountable problem without figuring out a way to include some kind of intake fan in the upper section somewhere in the front or side.

This seems like an EXTREMELY poor design to me, as there does not even seem to be anyplace for the top and rear fans to negatively pull air from at all in the upper chamber, and any air pulled from the lower chamber is likely to be minimal and pre-heated anyhow to some degree. My vote is that you rethink the use of this case for the intended purpose.

This case might work fine for a much lower TDP configuration, but I suspect you are going to be back here with thermal problems, regardless of CPU cooler model, within days or weeks of building if you go forward in this way.
 
Back to this thread again. I can again agree with severely limited cooling, as I owned this case(Temjin TJ07)for a few years. According to manufacturer, the dual 92mm rear fans at the IO were for intake in upper chamber and top dual 120mm were for exhaust. The case build quality at the time was top notch. Paid $350ish for it back then.

This same case got me back to watercooling due to high temps, especially GPU. I believe for CPU I was using Thermalright Ultra 120 extreme for those remembering them :) Not sure what CPU temps were, but CPU at time was either i7 980X or i7 3930k. However, after I installed new Radeon Dual GPU 6990, that was it. Within minutes of Dragon Age 2, GPU temps were low 90Cs, stock or custom fan curve near RPM max. Loud and hot, lol. Went to Corsair Obsidian 800D after that.
 
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I think everyone that looks at it has concerns about that case, but having never owned it nor found any reviews that address it's cooling, it's an enigma to me, and others, I presume. The Op seems quite attached to it, however, like I was to my original Antec Solo, which I re-purposed for an office computer. Maybe it's time to re-purpose this case?
 
Yes, think its time to retire the TJ07 chassis, or modify. I've seen the WC community use it for custom loops, as plenty of radiator space if you mod lower chamber. I end up selling mine as it wasn't up to the task of cooling high end components of the day. Built like a tank though, that was certain.
 

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