Question i9-9900K now or wait?

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Karadjgne

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View: https://youtu.be/JRHG1E42QBE


It's doable. Block off one side of that hdd bay and provide plenty of air upwards..

If you could figure out mounting on 4x 120mm fans down low, use of a 240mm AIO as top exhaust would be plenty, wouldn't even use the 2x 92mm. What you'd end up with would be a design very similar to the Silverstone Raven series, which has bottom to top airflow and is technically the best airflow cases on the market.

This can be made to work, question is, how badly do you want to.
 

Bearmann

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I don't think thast it has been mentioned, though I may have missed it, that the air being brought in by those bottom side fans not only escapes through the side perforations, but is also being sucked up by the PSU fan (which must be pointed up) next door and exhausted out the back of the case.
 

Yuka

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I don't think thast it has been mentioned, though I may have missed it, that the air being brought in by those bottom side fans not only escapes through the side perforations, but is also being sucked up by the PSU fan (which must be pointed up) next door and exhausted out the back of the case.
You have to have more in-take fans than exhaust fans, so it is very fair to point out. That's the way I have it set up myself and it's not trivial, specially when you have everything packed tight together.

Cheers!
 

R_G_S

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As requested previously, if anyone has any thoughts on the Lian Li PC-V760 or the SliverStone Temjin TJ11 please share.

Thanks.
 

Karadjgne

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OK, top pic is hdd cage, meant to be blow through, goes from side to side. Block off the backside and air got nowhere to go but up into the case.

Bottom pic, the 2x fans have nothing to do with the psu. The psu sits sideways, fed from mesh in rear.

Just blocking off the side venting will provide plenty of intake from underneath that even with 4x fans on top as exhaust, there's plenty of air for even a large air cooler or 240mm AIO.
 

Darkbreeze

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@Yuka, Your google drive link is not visible without permission. Might want to use a different way to host images or video. Links should I think normally be quick and easy, not requiring a wait for permission and then have to return to it later. Most just won't do that so it's kind of a waste.

Some other cases you might want to look at, assuming you are still entertaining the possibility of a change of scenery, are the BeQuiet Dark base Pro 900 Rev.1 and 2, Corsair 760T and Phanteks Enthoo Pro TG. The Rajintek Asterion Plus is also very nice, but I'm not sure the front panel design allows for sufficient airflow considering the arguments regarding cooling we've discussed, but maybe. I'm not generally a big fan of Rajintek, only because they are more of a budget focused company usually, but this case seems to be a departure from their usual designs. It's certainly got decent classic refined styling without looking like a box or being overtly flashy.

It's a mid tower, but big for a mid tower.



Don't be sorry for "dragging this on", this is what we enjoy doing and it's much better than ten thousand instances of "why don't I have a display/ no signal" or " is this ten dollar PSU good enough". LOL.

@bearman, yeah, I mentioned that, although I didn't factor in the PSU ALSO reducing the airflow from those bottom fans to the top in my estimates of how little it would actually provide to the top without blocking off that other vent panel or also installing another pair of intake fans there for a total of four. Honestly, I think that is the least expensive and MOST efficient path, is four fans in the bottom, open up the divider between the upper and lower chamber and move any storage devices installed in the lower chamber to the drive bays at the front of the top chamber.

PSU intake would not greatly detract from four intake fans with that implementation.
 
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Karadjgne

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What I find surprising about many facets of case purchases is the pure stubborness of many ppl. They'll quite readily and happily rip off the stock rims and tires, exhaust tips, various blanks to be replaced by chrome trim, stock radio etc and go to town changing, outfitting, lowering, jacking up their ride, but ask them to change anything about their case and all I get is dumbfounded blank stares. "I can only put a 120mm as intake and exhaust! Oh what do i do to get better airflow, help please!" (cut a giant hole in the case side and add a 200mm Fan!) "but I cant! It says only fits 1x 120mm!"....

It's a box. Thats all a case really is, just a box to hold the pc parts. Paint it? Sure! Pink, black, blue, camo! No worries. Want airflow someplace? Easy, add a fan, use zip ties to hdd cage. Build a bracket. I used the lid from an old, busted optical drive as a bracket to hold both my hdd and ssd in the #2 optical drive bay. Quick and dirty conversion from 5¼ to 3½/2½. Works like a champ. Not a hdd bay to be seen in my case.

You can do anything your imagination and tools and ability allow. Question is, are ya willing? It'd be pretty easy to convert those hdd bays to fit a 120mm on each side, add a wall to the center to prevent backflow and have 4x 120mm blowing air up from below and look totally stock. Could enlarge the holes on the top of the psu shroud to fit a 120mm and have push/pull air from below or 4x case fans floor mounted blowing straight up from the vents on each side.

Sky's the limit, it's your case, if something is an issue, change it.

@Darkbreeze

I like Raijintek, for the most part their stuff is decent, the little 92mm Aidos holds its own against a hyper212 without an issue. Their cases, meh. Not a big fan of Silver cases, or brushed aluminium for that matter. That said, damn! That's a nice looking case. Looks like it's worth a lot more than the price. And that's not easy to say about most modern cases.

@R_G_S

Don't be sorry. There's a thousand different company's worldwide throwing their name on a POS plastic box, where the only metal is an uber thin frame and motherboard tray. Everything else is either plastic or a hole. There are very few that actually produce a case like your Temjin. The fact it's nagging, you having a hard time parting with it, is testament to a superior case thats honestly worth holding onto if possible.
Your motherboard is toast, rma it. Your psu is junk, buy a new one. No you can't put a Ryzen cpu in a am3 motherboard... I'm almost ready to start macro canned answers. And then along comes you! Hallelujah lol.

Honestly, it's been a pleasure.
 
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Darkbreeze

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My sentiments exactly. And for what's it worth, I DID start using canned answers a while back because I got so tired of answering the same stupid, basic, senseless questions that anybody with half a brain could have found 150 exact answers for, just on threads "I" had answered previously much less the rest of the community. And that's only factoring in THIS community, not even all the other answers out there on other tech sites that are likely applicable.

Of course, our quality of answers are probably marginally higher in a lot of areas, and likely a bit more reliable as well. Still, it tends to get repetitive. Occasionally I will actually just go off on a tangent to spice things up a bit if nothing else, rather than ALWAYS use the canned answer. So like I said, this type of thread actually is what drives enthusiast sites and I wish there were more of them.

Personally I agree on the case as well. You like the case. You really DON'T want a different case. But the case doesn't currently REALLY do what it needs to do for the configuration you want to put in it, so, maybe you take the time to step out of your comfort zone and try you hand at some case mod. It would definitely be worth it and it would be a lot less expensive than buying one (Or two) of those prebuilt front panel add ons that really is not a mod, per se, but an upgrade. Why pay for what you can do yourself for free.

Heck, you don't even really need much in the way of tools. For 20 bucks you can get a decent rotary tool kit from Amazon that will do pretty much 90% of what needs done for most case mods. The rest is often simply sanding, painting or screwing things into place, all of which can be done with very basic hand tools.

https://www.amazon.com/Variable-Accessories-Carrying-Multi-functional-Crafting/dp/B07N76TT6K/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=rotary+tool&qid=1558500620&s=gateway&sr=8-7

I'm sure myself and others here would be more than willing to do any hand holding or suggestive help if you were willing to go that route. And if not, that's cool too. It's not for everybody. Lot of people that just don't dig doing that kind of thing.
 

R_G_S

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Thanks guys,

Glad you're enjoying it - but nevertheless, it has been a huge help to me - so a big 'THANK YOU' all round! In fact, if it hadn't been for Darkbreeze pointing out early on that the D15 was too tall for the case I'd likely not have checked - I just assumed the beast could handle anything!

I think I've now looked at all the cases suggested and there are some really quite good options there, absolutely in line with what I requested. Yet still I find there's something I still prefer about the Temjin... I think it's probably the unibody design, the solidity of the construction and the old-school vibe. In the video I liked to a few pages back one of the TJ07's designers commented on the difficulties (and expense) involved in creating the case and how it wouldn't be financially viable these days.

Doing the car analogy thing; it feels like I have a vintage model from a time when build quality was high and the designers really tried to make something different - whilst the new models have better MPG, auto rain sensors/tyre pressures/lights etc. (dust filters, cable management, CPU cutout) there's something missing... Even on the high-end, the seat stitching's often 'electric blue' on black, and chrome (or often faux chrome plastic) or carbon fibre covers every piece of trim; the wooden dash has been replaced with a gloss 'piano black' finish (RGB). That's what the market wants today, I'm not complaining; most don't care for wood and cars aren't going to sell based on the quality of the the door hinges, metal thickness or more subtle design cues, but for me, these things matter. That said, the vintage car isn't going to win any races and fitting that new engine and transmission isn't as simple as I'd thought.

So, having read that you get that I'm a bit of a freak when it comes to such things. Yes, it's just a case... I know. Sorry.

I think I've now decided (pretty much) on 3 options:

1. TJ07
Modify one or both of the HDD cages to divert the airflow to the main chamber. Possibly adding additional fans. I'm fairly confident this is something I can do (I'd want to do it 'properly' rather than what might look like a temp fix, even if technically solid). Would have to make sure the air could get round the graphics card though and if using both cages, relocate the HDDs somehow to the 5.25 inch bays (without dedicated ventilation). CPU cooler would be an NH-U12A or D15S - should be up to the task, but not quite on par with the D15.


2. TJ11
This beast of a case, bigger still than my '07, seems to share the same build quality and design cues such as the unibody construction and compartmentalised layout. It looks to have very good cooling, from what I can tell, but is something of an oddball with 2x 180 mm fans blowing upwards over the MB (mounted at 90 degrees from normal) and venting out of the roof with a 120 mm fan right behind the CPU. It's very expensive, so I'd cut the 1TB NVMe drive from my build and add that at a later date, plus would be saving the cost of the Noctua fans required for the '07 (over £100); a nip and a tuck + just have to pay a bit more. CPU cooler clearance is 171 mm so would go with the D15 which all agree is perfectly adequate for the 9900K.




3. PC-V760
I believe that this case is in many ways the most sensible option, aside from the cost (though less than the TJ11). Max CPU cooler height is 180 mm and the airflow looks perfect with 3x 140 mm fans in the front behind mesh, 2x 120 mm fans in the roof and a 120 mm for exhaust. No optical drive slots, but no big deal really as generally no longer needed with great options for SSD/HDD too. It fits the bill in terms of design and build quality; more 'high-end audio' and contemporary than the TJ11 which is more industrial, utilitarian and old school. It's also a pretty standard layout unlike the TJ11 (MB orientation) which might make it the safer option in the long run. It's about the same size as my '07.




Currently I'm leaning towards the TJ11. It's the most expensive and least practical (size...), but I know it'll scratch that TJ07 itch and I like the familiarity of the layout in terms of HDD cages etc. It also fixes the CPU cooler issue and adds some other 'modern' (for me!) features such as dust filters. I would imagine the 2x 180 mm fans would be pretty quiet but provide good airflow - it looks like I could swap them for 200 mm Noctuas though (with some rigging) at a later date if that was an issue. The PC-V760 looks very good, but possibly lacking a little in personality (yes, it's a case... I know...).

I would really appreciate your feedback on these two cases in terms of viability for my needs and also longevity - I thought the TJ07 would be the last case I ever needed. Do you foresee any future issues with either of these two?

Once I have that info, I can make an informed decision as to which route to go.

That's all for now.

Thanks again!

(EDIT: I have spoken to PCSpecialist as regards system transportation; apparently they use expandable foam inside the case for shipping to ensure large coolers are well protected. The foam is within a bag and is then easily removed on arrival. Sounds pretty good to me.)
 
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Yuka

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Oh, the Lian Li PC-V760 looks really good to me. In terms of cooling and component arrangement is better than all other suggested cases by a lot. I also like that crossbar (vertical bar?) for long GPUs. That's not a trivial item IMO, but at the same time, may be a nuisance for non-standard size GPUs.

Plus, it looks really clean.

Cheers!
 
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Darkbreeze

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I have to second the V760. It might not be what you WANT, but it's what you NEED, unless you simply do the mods to your existing case, which if you were willing to do that, might actually be preferable to any of the other options aside from the V760. Of course, that's just MY opinion, and I'm biased towards DOING case mods to start with AND with full mesh front panels because of the improvements in cooling performance they afford, but still, they are sound and viable options.

The fact that it opens you up to any size CPU cooler you would care to use, doesn't hurt either.
 
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R_G_S

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Thanks guys,

Yes, I think the V760 is a good option. I don't have any issues with this case from an aesthetic or quality standpoint, so could happily (other than cost) go with this. I think it's more elegant and contemporary (both visually and functionally) than the TJ11.

That said, I'm still somewhat tempted by the TJ11, so if you could please confirm that that should also work fine that'd be great. Assuming both are good, then I just have some thinking to do, but at least have my 3 choices finalised ;).

Some TJ11 reviews here:

https://www.xtremehardware.com/eng-reviews/silverstone-tj11-the-king-of-kings-201211197862/?start=9
https://bit-tech.net/reviews/tech/cases/silverstone-temjin-tj11-review/3/
https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/4211/silverstone_temjin_tj11_sst_tj11b_w_tower_chassis_review/index.html

The first two links are straight to the cooling section of the review. From what I can tell cooling is excellent (on air) and the 180 mm fans do a great job. Apparently they have two modes of operation (2 switches at the top of the case, one for each fan) with the high mode being fairly loud, but the low, nice and quiet. From what I can see, low is more than adequate, though the tests were obviously carried out with old hardware, the airflow design looks good. The MB is mounted at 90 degrees - do you see this causing any issues, either now on down the line with future builds?

There's a very in-depth video review of the case here:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA_aCrb_J-4


I can't find any reviews of the V760 online, but the design looks solid; I can't imagine there being any issues.

Thanks again!
 

maverick0011

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Thanks guys,

Yes, I think the V760 is a good option. I don't have any issues with this case from an aesthetic or quality standpoint, so could happily (other than cost) go with this. I think it's more elegant and contemporary (both visually and functionally) than the TJ11.

That said, I'm still somewhat tempted by the TJ11, so if you could please confirm that that should also work fine that'd be great. Assuming both are good, then I just have some thinking to do, but at least have my 3 choices finalised ;).

Some TJ11 reviews here:

https://www.xtremehardware.com/eng-reviews/silverstone-tj11-the-king-of-kings-201211197862/?start=9
https://bit-tech.net/reviews/tech/cases/silverstone-temjin-tj11-review/3/
https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/4211/silverstone_temjin_tj11_sst_tj11b_w_tower_chassis_review/index.html

The first two links are straight to the cooling section of the review. From what I can tell cooling is excellent (on air) and the 180 mm fans do a great job. Apparently they have two modes of operation (2 switches at the top of the case, one for each fan) with the high mode being fairly loud, but the low, nice and quiet. From what I can see, low is more than adequate, though the tests were obviously carried out with old hardware, the airflow design looks good. The MB is mounted at 90 degrees - do you see this causing any issues, either now on down the line with future builds?

There's a very in-depth video review of the case here:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA_aCrb_J-4


I can't find any reviews of the V760 online, but the design looks solid; I can't imagine there being any issues.

Thanks again!
I would stay AWAY from silverstone, Look at The Thermaltake cases such as the 71 or the one I have which is the TT W100 The W100 is a monster of a case and does the job, however if you don't mind the look the Core X9 is an amazing case and for the price of a TJ11 you get two of the Core X9's and can stack them for killer airflow and unprecedented Liquid cooling compatibility and capability as well as amazing airflow. I also suggest not spending your money on an intel based system and going with Ryzen. AMD's platform has improved 10000% from the last 10 years, I've stuck with AMD for so long and I'd still stick with them. The new Ryzen 3000 series will be even better so wait for that to come out and buy an MSI Meg X570 board along with the highest possible 3k series processor from AMD you likely will NOT regret the wait or purchases.
 

Darkbreeze

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Thermaltake quality is not only lower, it's literally laughable compared to companies like Silverstone (On their higher end offerings) or Lian Li (On ANY Lian Li case). Thermaltake has some cases worth looking at when they are priced right, in the price categories they are targeted for, but mostly I avoid them like the plague as I've seen FAR too many instances of Thermaltake cases in the past with warped panels and poor fitment.

You comments are targeted for a less informed crowd, not this one. But rest assured, they are noted.

@R_G_S , wow, that Lian Li case is OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive. I'd never pay that much for a case AND it seems that case is no longer made by Lian Li so getting support for any part of it as a current model is probably not going to happen (V760). Normally I wouldn't be concerned by that, but for a case that expensive, I'd sure want the option.

As for the TJ11, I'm sorry, but IMO this case too lacks a sensible cooling methodology. More importantly though is the fact that it uses non-standard sized fan models so replacement later on would require HOPING that Silverstone still offers those models because you're not going to find replacement fans from any other manufacturers in those sizes, especially not models with good quality and characteristics. I particularly don't like companies that try to tie you to their own proprietary hardware. It's a shady tactic IMO and I find it hard to abide in this day and age where the majority and in fact mostly ALL of the manufacturers have adhered to at least mostly standards that are across the board in terms of sizes, form factors and connectors.

I SERIOUSLY dislike fans that are not STRICTLY thermally controlled. The days of statically controlled fans are, and should be, relegated to the past. Only cheap fan models or proprietary systems utilize static controls on fans these days, or in some cases also in industrial applications like servers and the like. Gaming systems and work stations should always be thermally variable these days because, not being shows a lack of thoughtfulness or compliance with modern standards.
 
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R_G_S

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Thanks for your thoughts guys.

Maverick0011
I looked at Thermaltake a while back and from what I recall, whilst at a glance they appear to offer what I'm after, the quality wasn't really there (in terms of construction); though to be fair they're in a different price category. I'll look at your suggestions anyway, just in case. I cover why I'll be going with Intel and nVidia earlier in this thread.

Darkbreeze
Yeah, the Lian Li is expensive, but I simply can't seem to find much else that I like the look of, aside from the TJ11 and probably another couple of Lian Li cases which are no longer available. I resent spending £150+ on a 'standard' case that visually isn't on par with my TJ07 (to my taste, of course) and would rather put an extra £200 (if I have to) towards something I like as much. The 1 TB NVMe I have in my preliminary build is around £200, so I'd drop that and make do with the standard SSDs for the time being, adding the NVMe at a later date (hopefully at a better price too).

I know the V760 is discontinued, as is the TJ11, but I simply can't find any current cases I like... bloody fussy, unfortunately! I wouldn't imagine lack of support for a case is a serious issue - I mean, what is there to go wrong with it? The only thing I can think of is plastic latches failing, but that's about it. Obviously in an ideal world I'd rather something current, as apart from anything else I worry about these cases selling out, particularly if I end up waiting for this 10-core part.

As for the TJ11, what is it you don't like about the cooling system, from an airflow perspective? It seems to have reviewed excellently in that regard from what I can tell, similar to the Raven series which "has bottom to top airflow and is technically the best airflow cases on the market" according to Karadjgne (above).

I agree on not being keen on custom-sized parts/fittings, but it seems (at least for now) that the SilverStone AP181 fans are still readily available. In addition, it appears that SilverStone were/are actually trying to do something different here as opposed to simply tie the customer in for the sake of it (see video below), though maybe I'm being overly generous. I could pick up a couple as backup, but in the eventuality of not being able to find any stock, it looks as though there might just be enough space to mount a pair of 200 mm Noctuas, which I presume I could attach directly to the MB for more variable speeds if desired? If the 200 mm were not possible, it wouldn't be hard to make a mount for 2x 140 mm fans (which may also be required for the 200 mm of course), but I suppose you might run into the issue of them not being powerful enough or not directing the airflow as effectively as the Air Penetrators and so on. It's a very good point you make and def. something I'd not considered.



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8m8fC809TK0


There's also review of the fans themselves here: https://www.kitguru.net/components/cooling/zardon/silverstone-air-penetrator-sst-ap181-fan-review/

No need to watch the video/read the review; just attached as though you might find it interesting ;).

Cheers!
 

Darkbreeze

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Panel warpage. Not likely though on a high end case, but you never know. More likely, failure of front panel I/O ports or mini-board (pretty common actually, whether on cheap or expensive cases as the hardware is often of similar quality for these items), if equipped with one. Fans. Those are the main culprits on cases.

Proprietary designs and hardware just piss me off that's all. There's no reason for it. There are industry wide standards, and they work exceedingly well. Stick to them. I can't see ANY reason for them to create their own proprietary fan designs/sizes other than trying to make customers buy replacement hardware from THEM. Seriously, ANY case manufacturer that can't implement a design that works, as most do, with the standard 120, 140 or 200mm case fans, these days, is just being asinine or is thinking they are smarter than they actually are. IMO anyhow.

For the price of those cases, well actually, probably for a fraction of the price, you could easily make the case you have already work pretty damn well and I still that that is the best option. If it weren't for the wacky cooling design, I think your current case is better than any of these others aesthetically, it's just not terribly functional in the cooling arrangement. That could be easily fixed though. Why don't you contact the builder that you were going to have do the build and ASK them if THEY do any case mods, or if they can recommend somebody they have a working relationship with that does. Maybe you can save some bucks and stay with the case you prefer anyhow.

Otherwise, IDK. Also, perhaps you didn't catch the fact that those fans are not variable speed either. They have several static settings, but low speeds may not be enough during high loads and high speeds will drive you batshit crazy when they don't need to be that way all the time. I'm sorry but in this day and age, where both DC and PWM fans can easily be thermally controlled on practically any existing modern platform, it's even more ridiculous than the proprietary sizes of those fans to have to deal with a statically controlled design.

But hey, you know what's best for you so I'll leave that all up to you.
 
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R_G_S

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Excellent points there, Darkbreeze, thanks.

I think I've got all the info I could possibly want now regarding cases and CPU coolers; just to weight up the pros and cons of each and make a decision.

I do have three further questions about the build though, if you're not sick to death of it...

1. There seems to be some confusion as to the M.2 and SATA limitations of the AORUS Master MB (as discussed here: https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/i9-9900k-workstation-gaming-build-your-thoughts-please.3478361/#post-21042776). Myself and Bearmann came to the conclusion that 2 of the 3 M.2 drives could be utilised without losing a single SATA connection, but others seem to be of the impression that every M.2 drive added losses you 2 x SATAs. There's a table in the Gigabyte AORUS Master manual (here, page 34: http://download.gigabyte.us/FileList/Manual/mb_manual_z390-aorus-master_1001_e.pdf) which lists the 3 M.2 slots separately as M, A and P. With a PCIe M.2 installed, they act as follows:

M: SATA 4 and 5 disabled
A: Nothing disabled
P: The PCIEX4 slot operates at up to x2 mode

Provided I do not use the 'M' slot, the only limitation would be a reduction in speed of the PCIE4 slot and nothing else, leaving me with 6 x SATA connections, correct? If using all 3 M.2s (at a later date) I would be limited to 4 x SATA drives, plus the PCIE4 operating at x2?


2. Planning on using a 500GB WD Black SN750 NVMe SSD for the OS. Is this a good choice and specifically, is 500 GB enough for only the OS and programs (Max, Photoshop etc.), not storage? Seems plenty, but OS drives always seem to fill up...


3. What are your views on Corsair vs Seasonic from a PSU perspective? I currently have an AX860 Platinum which has been excellent, but was recommended Seasonic by the system builder. I have read reports of loud/whiny fans though which puts me off. If I were building the system myself I'd stick with my current PSU as I see no need to change it (prob 3 years old), but obviously that's not an option.

I'm only interested in fully modular units and gather that 650-750 W should be fine for my needs; hence ~850 W for a decent amount of future-proofing/headroom. Any thoughts/suggestions welcome.


Right, think that's just about everything. Unless Intel release info on their 10-core processor soon (and it's coming within the next few months) I'll be pulling the trigger on this build, with the 9900K, early June. Presumably, if they are going to release something in 3-6 months (or sooner) we should expect an announcement at Computex next week, correct?

Thanks again for your time and sharing your knowledge, very much appreciated!
 
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Darkbreeze

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So, I really, REALLY hate to do this, because this seemed like a productive thread, and everything seemed on the up and up, however after looking at that link you posted I see you created another, separate thread, addressing the same basic content and questions, aside from the case discussion, as what this thread was to start with and has actually mainly continued to be.

Here's the problem. We don't allow multiple threads on the same or similar topics by the same person. Duplicate threads are SERIOUSLY frowned upon. So I'm in somewhat of a dilemma because you are not the typical no brain in my head type poster that creates duplicate threads, and it's been refreshing to help hash out these questions, but despite that as a moderator I am in a hard spot to allow both threads to exist. I think I'm going to have to let somebody else make the call on that since I'm an active participant in this thread.

I just thought I'd let you know first, in case maybe you weren't aware of the rule, and it's possible that these two threads simply need to be merged.
 

R_G_S

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Ah, sorry about that, my mistake. I shall be more careful in future.

I sometimes open a new thread to discuss a particular issue, for e.g. I intended this topic to be solely around the 9900K/Comet Lake, but the case/airflow debate took centre stage - I actually had an older thread about the TJ07 case in 2019, but subsequently opened this one, specifically in order to discuss the processor options, believing them to be two completely different topics. I opened the 'build review' thread to discuss the build in general, as opposed to being processor/case-focused and when I became aware of the overlapping nature of the two I did suggest the discussion was continued here; that said I agree that the 'build review' thread was probably unnecessary and I should have given it more thought before creating it (or not mentioned the case debate there).

There are 3 related threads:

TJ07 case: https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/silverstone-tj07-in-2019.3474990/
Build review: https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/i9-9900k-workstation-gaming-build-your-thoughts-please.3478361/
and this one.

From my point of view I'd be more than happy to see the other two closed or merged with this one - maybe with the title '9900K gaming/workstation TJ07?' or similar - but if you need to close the lot, no probs and thanks anyway for all the assistance, it really has been most helpful!

As said, I shall be more careful when creating new topics in future; the ramble above is explanation as opposed to justification.

Thanks again.
 

Darkbreeze

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I think it has been handled. Usually, for reference only, we like to see all build related questions handled in the same thread unless there is a particular aspect of it that is best handled as it's own thread and that does happen. Not that big of a deal I guess but when I noticed the two very similar thread titles I got the "oh no's".

If you had, for example, decided that you wanted to create a separate thread dealing with the case issues specifically and by themselves, after that became something you were aware of, that would have been different than two separate discussions titled similarly with 9900k I think.

Regardless, I think we're all good now.

So, to the issues you raised. Considering the amount of money and the level of the build you are creating it is improbable that I'd want to go with any PCI M.2 drive that doesn't start with Samsung in it's name. LOL. The 970 EVO or 970 EVO Plus would be my first recommendation but you could do worse than that WD drive. Since the 970 EVO Plus is only about 23 bucks more and uses the newer 96 layer NAND, might be the better option. Summary of the WD Black drive here:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13760/the-western-digital-wd-black-sn750-ssd-review/10

To ME, I think that 500GB is PLENTY for an OS drive, although that likely depends on what you do and how many large applications you probably will be using. I have quite a lot of programs installed, some pretty large, including things like the full Office suite, Photoshop, Paint shop Pro, Illustrator, Dreamweaver, many audio and video editing programs, full DVD and Blu ray ripping and burning suites, Acronis true image backup utility, stand alone DVD and Blu ray software players, some 3D and CAD applications, and on an on, and have been doing fine with just a 250GB 970 EVO for some time now. Given current prices, I likely would have opted for a 500GB model instead, but I have plenty of room for comfort still as is.

As for the power supply, many of Corsair's best units ARE made by Seasonic. It's hard to go wrong with either Seasonic or Corsair units if you choose the right ones.

Here's my standard spiel on that:

Let's start with the biggest misconception out there, which is that if a unit has high watts it will be ok or is good. Well, that couldn't be further from the truth.

There are plenty of 750-1000w units out there that I wouldn't trust to power a light bulb and might in fact be more dangerous due to their supposedly high capacity due to poor or non-existent protections inside the unit.

If the platform isn't good to begin with, how many watts or amps it says it can support is irrelevant.

Higher 80plus certification doesn't mean anything, UNLESS it is a PSU platform that we already know is good anyhow. For example, a Seasonic Prime platinum unit is going to be a better product than a Seasonic Prime Gold unit, because we already know the Prime platform is very good, and platinum efficiency along with it shows there are some improvements internally to account for the higher efficiency.

In a case like that, it might be worth it. It's likely the unit will create less heat, it will probably have better performance in regard to ripple, noise and voltage regulation. It might shave a few pennies, or dollars, off the electric bill over the course of a year.

Other than that, it is not going to perform any better than the same platform with Gold efficiency. On the other hand, just because a unit has Titanium 80plus ratings doesn't mean the unit is any good at all. For example, there are Raidmax units with Titanium efficiency and I wouldn't trust one of those to power a light bulb. There are a lot of units like this out there.

If the platform isn't good to begin with, whether or not it has an 80plus certification or not is irrelevant.

Whatever you do, don't EVER buy a power supply based on whether it has RGB or lighting, or looks like it might be a quality unit. Some of the biggest hunks of junk out there look just as good as a Seasonic Prime Ultra Titanium, but I assure you, they are not. So far there are very few very good units out there that have RGB built in. Maybe one or two models, but rest assured you'll be be paying for the lighting, not for the quality of the power supply.

I don't know what country you reside in, and I know that sometimes it's hard to come by good units in some regions, but when possible, when it comes time to get that PSU, I'd stick to the following if you can.

Seasonic. Seasonic isn't just a brand, they are a PSU manufacturer, unlike many of the PSU brands you see they make their own power supply platforms AND a great many of the very good PSU models out there from other brands like Antec, Corsair and older XFX are made by Seasonic.

Just about anything made by Seasonic is good quality for the most part. There are really no bad Seasonic units and only a very few that are even somewhat mediocre. They do make a few less-good quality OEM style units, but mostly those are not going to be units you come across at most vendors, and they are still not bad. Also, the S12II and M12II 520 and 620w units are older, group regulated models. At one time they were among the best units you could buy. Now, they are outdated and not as good as almost any other Seasonic models. They are however still better than a LOT of newer designs by other manufacturers.

The Seasonic 520w and 620w S12II/M12II units CAN be used on newer Intel platforms, if you turn off C6/C7 in the bios, but I'd really recommend a newer platform whenever possible. Prices are usually pretty good on those though, so sometimes it's worth accepting the lack of DC-DC on the internal platform. Higher capacity versions of the High current gamer are not based on that platform, so they are fine. Those being the 750w and higher versions.

Most common currently, in order of preference, would be the Seasonic Focus series, then Focus plus, then Prime, then Prime ultra. It's worth mentioning that there are generally Gold, Platinum and Titanium versions within each, or most, of those series, but that does not necessarily mean that a Focus plus Platinum is necessarily better than a Prime Gold. It only means that it scored better in the 80plus efficiency testing, not that the platform is better.

Again, don't let yourself get tangled up in the idea that a higher 80plus rating specifically means that it is a better unit than another one with a lower rating, unless you know that it is a good platform from the start. All these Focus and Prime units are pretty good so you can somewhat focus on the 80plus rating when deciding which of them to choose.

Super Flower. Super Flower is another PSU manufacturer. They are like Seasonic and they make power supplies for a variety of other companies, like EVGA. Super Flower units are usually pretty good. I'd stick to the Leadex, Leadex II and Golden Green models.They also make most of the good units sold by EVGA like the G2, G3, P2 and T2 models.

Super Flower doesn't have a very broad availability for the units with their own brand name on them, and are not available in a lot of countries but for those where there is availability you want to look at the Leadex and Leadex II models. The Golden green platform is fairly decent too but is getting rather long in the tooth as a platform AND I've seen some reviews indicating a few shortcomings on units based on this platform.

Even so, it's a great deal better than a lot of other platforms out there so you could certainly do worse than a Golden green model. Units based on the Leadex and Leadex II platforms are much better though.

Corsair. The CX and CXm units are ok as a budget option, but I do not recommend pairing them with gaming cards. The newer 2017 models of CX and CXm are better than the older ones, but still not what we'd call terrific, so if it specifically says 2017 model, or it has a capacity other than an even 100, like 550w, 650w, 750w, etc., then it's likely at least better than those older ones. Aside from that, any of the TX, RMx, RMi, HX, HXi, AX or AXi units are good. Those are listed from best to worst, with the best being the AX and AXi units.

Antec. The True power classic units are made by Seasonic, and are very good, but are not modular. The High current gamer 520w and 620w, or any other PSU you see on the market that is 520w or 620w, are also made by Seasonic, based on the S12II and M12II platform for modern versions, and are pretty good units but again they are an older platform that is group regulated so if you go with a Haswell or newer Intel configuration you will want to avoid those because they do not support the C6/C7 Intel low power states.

The Antec High current gamer 750w and 850w units are very good and are not the older design, which came in 520w and 620w capacities and were good for back then but again, are an aging Seasonic platform that is not the best choice most of the time these days. Occasionally, these older units MIGHT be the best unit available and you could do worse than one of them, but a newer DC-DC platform is desirable when possible if it doesn't mean sacrificing quality elsewhere in the platform. There are however older and newer HCG models, so exact model number will likely be a factor if choosing one of these however both the older models and the newer models are good.

Antec Edge units are ok too, but reviews indicate that they have noisy fan profiles. I'd only choose this model if it is on sale or the aesthetics match up with your color scheme or design. Still a good power supply but maybe a little aggressive on the fan profile. This may have been cured on newer Edge models so reading professional tear down reviews is still the best idea.

Antec Earthwatts Gold units are very good also.

BeQuiet. BeQuiet does have a few decent models, BUT, you must be VERY selective about which of their models you put your trust in. From model to model their are huge differences in both quality and performance, even with the same series. If you cannot find a review for a BeQuiet unit on HardOCP, JonnyGuru or Tom's hardware that SPECIFICALLY says it is a very good unit, and does not have any significant issues in the "cons" category, I would avoid it. In fact, I'd probably avoid it anyhow unless there is a very great sale on one that has good reviews, because their units are generally more expensive than MUCH better units from Antec, Seasonic, EVGA and Corsair.

EVGA. They have BOTH good and not very good models.

Not very good are the W1, N1, B1, B3 (All models except the 650w model), BQ, BR, BT and G1 NEX models.

Good models are the B2, B3 650w, G2, G2L, G3, GQ, P2 and T2 models.

FSP. They used to be very mediocre, and are a PSU manufacturer like Seasonic and Super Flower, although not as well trusted based on historical performance. Currently the FSP Hydro G and Hydro X units are pretty good.

I would avoid Thermaltake and Cooler Master.

They do have a few good units, but most of the models they sell are either poor or mediocre, and the ones they have that ARE good are usually way overpriced.

This is just ONE example of why I say that. Very new and modern CM unit. One of the worst scores ever seen on JonnyGuru for a well known brand name product. Doesn't look to be much better than a Raidmax unit. Sad.

Cooler Master Masterwatt Lite 600W review

And most of the models I have linked to the reviews of at the following link are at least good, with most of them being fantastic.

Power supply discussion thread

Certainly there ARE some good units out there that you won't see above among those I've listed, but they are few and far between, much as a hidden nugget of gold you find in a crevice among otherwise ordinary rocks and don't EVER assume a unit is good just because of the brand.

If you cannot find an IN DEPTH, REPUTABLE review on Tom's hardware, JonnyGuru, HardOCP, Hardware secrets (Old reviews by Gabe Torres), Kitguru (Only Aris reviews), TechPowerUP, SilentPC crew or a similar site that does much more than simply a review of the unboxing and basic tests that don't include reliable results for ripple, noise, voltage regulation and a complete teardown of the unit including identification of the internal platform, then the unit is a big fat question mark.

I recommend not trusting such units as companies generally always send out review samples of any unit they feel is going to get a good review, and don't send them out if they know they are going to get hammered by the reviewer. No review usually equals poor quality. Usually.


Other models that should never be trusted OR USED AT ALL, under any circumstances, include

A-Top, AK Power, Alpine, Apevia, Apex (Supercase/Allied), Artic, Ace, Aerocool (There might be one model worth using, but I'd still avoid them.), Aspire (Turbocase), Atadc, Atrix, Broadway com corp, Chieftech, Circle, CIT, Coolmax, Deer, Diablotek, Dynapower, Dynex, Eagletech, Enlight, Eurotech, Evo labs, EZ cool, Feedtek, Foxconn, G7, HEC/Compucase Orion, HEDY, High power, iBall, iStar computer co., Jeantec, JPac, Just PC, Kolink, LC Power, Linkworld electronics, Logisys, Macron, MSI, NmediaPC, Norwood Micro (CompUSA), Okia, Powercool, Powmax, Pulsepower, Q-tec, Raidmax, Rave, Rocketfish, Segotep, SFC, Sharkoon, Shuttle, Skyhawk, Spire, Startech, Storm, Sumvision, Tesla, Trust, Ultra, Wintech, Winpower, Xilence (Until I see a reputable review of a model showing different), xTreme (Cyberpower), Youngbear and Zebronics.

Computex, yes, next week. I'd wait until at least then before pulling the trigger on anything, since we are so close and there is likely to be a lot of light shed on the immediate future in a variety of ways.
 
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R_G_S

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Thanks for the info, Darkbreeze, very helpful.

Well, it looks like we're getting a speed-bumped 9900K in the 9900KS (seems like a factory all-core overclock, effectively). Hopefully more info tomorrow on pricing, availability and thermals.

Might be something from nVidia too.

Will post again soon.

Cheers!
 

R_G_S

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Right, so it seems that the i9 9900KS will not launch until Q4. Bit of a bummer as were it shipping in June/July I'd have gone with it, but I don't think it's worth the wait. Additionally if I was going to wait until Q4, I'd be waiting for the 10-core part (if even coming this year...?) rather than a factory overclocked 9900K (effectively). Have to say, the introduction of the KS in Q4 does make me wonder whether we'll see the 10-core processor this year, especially if it's 5 GHz as wouldn't that make the KS kind of pointless?

Unfortunately nVidia chose to hold back their 'Super' reveal until E3, so another 2 weeks...

The way I see things right now, is that it probably makes sense wait until E3 just in case nVidia have a better 2080 Ti on the verge of launch - though to be honest, I expect it'll be too expensive for me along the lines of the OC'd versions (~£200+ premium, ~£1,200 total). Either way, for the sake of 2 weeks I suppose I can hold out a little longer. That said, am I correct to assume it very unlikely that we'll see any substantial change to the 2080 Ti as regards either performance or price + there will then be a further delay before we actually see cards for sale?

In summary:

Any thoughts on the 9900KS, nVidia 'Super' tease and the likelihood of the 10-core chip any sooner than Q4?

Any reason not to pull the trigger on the 9900K + 2080 Ti in 2 weeks, assuming nothing further at E3, or indeed the risk of just going for it right now?

Thanks.
 
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