If I damaged my computer through static, what would be some symptoms?

nickmo94

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Hi there, first time builder here, and after 20 or so hours I managed to get my PC together (I know; it was my first time, and I took it VERY slow, carefully triple checking where I plugged in everything). Unfortunately, my computer does not make any beep noises at all, i.e., no POST. The fans however, turn on, as well as the hard drive, and the chassis LEDs. I am going to go through some steps to troubleshoot this unfortunate situation, but I would like to know what symptoms would be expected from any damage caused by static, and if that in fact is the reason why I'm not getting my motherboard to POST.


Here is what I did that is making me worry about possibly causing static damage:

After one initial slip-up where I placed the motherboard (which rested atop its foam pad) on the carpet as I read its manual, and then upon reading in the manual the advice about carpets, quickly placed it back in its anti-static bag and moved to a glass table in a room with wood floors to continue working on it.

I put the fan, CPU, and GPU in the motherboard while working on a glass table, and put the motherboard back in the chassis on a granite table.

I then moved my build back to my room (which has carpets), and thought that it would be fine so long as I wore cotton (which I did) and grounded myself by touching the chassis. Unfortunately, only recently did I find out that the chassis actually had to be plugged in (but not turned on) in order to ground static electricity, and thus was plugging in all the components into the motherboard while not actually grounding myself properly.


Also, as a suggestion for this site, I think it would be beneficial to sticky a thread in these forums that, in the first post, specifically talks about static and how to avoid it. Even the Tom's Hardware "Step-by-Step Guide to Building a PC" doesn't specify that the case/chassis actually has to be plugged in in order to properly ground. Here is the one mention made regarding static in it:

"Remember from this point forward to ground yourself by touching the metal case before you handle any of your computer’s electronic components, it saves them from possible static discharge which can destroy hardware. Some people find it useful to use a Anti-static wrist band but I leave that to the individual, as I don't find them necessary, as long as you continue to touch the metal of your case."

It also doesn't even mention plugging in the PSU after a person installs it. Now, I'm not trying to harp on the guide, as it was very useful to me in getting everything together, but I had no idea about the need to plug in the PSU in order to ground myself through the chassis while reading it, and as this is a major site for computer information, it would be extremely beneficial to inform future builders of this.

Now, I get that a lot of people view grounding static electricity as common sense, but for a new builder whose only resources are manuals, the internet, and what other people tell them, it isn't all that clear. After my initial slip-up, I thought I was doing the right thing by not plugging in my chassis when I grounded myself, as I figured that having the potential for even bit of power to run through while I was building my PC would be catastrophic. Unfortunately, it might have been catastrophic to NOT do that, and I only wish that this would have been clearer to me.


Anyways,
I am going to go through some steps to troubleshoot this unfortunate situation, but would like to better understand what I'm dealing with here, and if in fact this problem was caused by my own stupidity, i.e., static electricity.

Thank you to any who respond.

Sincerely,
Nicholas
 
The thing with static electricity is that you can hear it and most times feel it so if you accidently touched the MB or case then you would hear a short discharge and feel a small short mild jolt and it sounds sort of like a snap. You would know it if it happened so if you did not experience any of that then it's a good chance that you didn't have a static dicharge and your problem is something else. When I hear people say that the fans turn on and nothing happens I uaually tell them to check all thier connectors especially the cpu power connector located near the cpu socket also check the ram sticks making sure they are seated all the way and the same with the video card. Some motherboards have led's on the board that tell at what point the boot proccess is at. What MB do you have?
 

aaab

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AFAIK that's not always true... I'm sure that you can have a static discharge that's low enough that you don't hear or feel it and yet it still damages your equipment.

HOWEVER It's very unlikely that static electricity has damaged your gear that badly.

Try unplug everything except the parts you need. E.g. only mobo cpu and graphics card (if you don't had onboard)

Also make sure you are using the spacers in your case properly i.e. not mounting the mobo straight to the case.
 

nickmo94

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Okay, I was very conscious of paying attention to any sounds, and the worst sound that I heard while working on it was the motherboard or graphics card making creaking/crinkling noises when I plugged in components or move them. I have an ASRock Z68 Extreme 3 Gen 3 motherboard. My CPU power connector is most certainly plugged in, I am utterly positive of that. I do not believe my mobo has any LEDs directly on it.



Yeah, that's the thing, I heard that damage can be done through static unnoticeably, and that is why I'm worried. But, I will try your suggestion. I do believe my mobo comes with onboard graphics, so I'll just take out everything but the mobo and PSU powering it.



Okay, I'm going to do what aaab suggested right now. Would keeping the chassis open while I do this be alright? I have searched the net about asking if it's okay to do that in order to save time and get a better look at what's going on physically, but haven't found anything yet.
 
It is extremely unlikely that you damaged any part of your computer with static electricity. You would feel any static discharge large enough to cause any damage. Saying that when I build a computer I am careful not to touch any of the circuit elements that I am fitting. It is more probable that you have fitted the computer together incorrectly or you need to clear the CMOS memory etc.
 

Petrofsky

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Do not plug the power cord in. That's the stupidest advice in the world. Yes, there is a good chance that that will provide ground, but there is some chance that that will provide death or injury to you or your computer.

Static electricity is poorly understood even by physicists. They can't tell you, for instance, exactly what happens to create it. It consists of an accumulation of electrons on a surface. These electrons just sit there, hence the name "static", until they are given somewhere to go. Their mere presence constitutes a negative charge, rendering everything around them positive in relation. By "opposites attract", these electrons will instantly move to anything around them not charged to the same potential---your girlfriend's lip, the cat, the screw on the cover plate of your wall switch, your mobo. The force behind electrical attraction is stupendous. A static charge you cannot even feel can be hundreds of volts, and the blue, snapping lightning bolt your finger draws from your car when you get out in wintertime can be tens of thousands of volts. Dry air breaks down and conducts at around 10,000 volts per inch (2.54 cm). A normal real lightning bolt is around 10 million volts, and it, too, is static electricity.

MOS devices are destroyed by static electricity because they have a fantastically thin layer of glass between the gate and the channel, on the order of nanometers. This insulator is able to withstand your 5V supply, but it can be blasted to smithereens by as little as 30V, never mind the gazillion from your pantyhose.

Static electricity will bleed off, so to speak, along a surface, even the surface of an insulator, so that the charge does not last forever under normal circumstances. The current is so small and the potential so high that it finds its way to a positive region readily. If you provide a path for the electrons consisting of a one megohm resistance to earth ground, no static charge can build up. That's what the anti-static wristband is. The electrons sashay along that like it's the Champs Elysees, and the planet cannot become charged by them. Once your board is screwed to the chassis, no charge can build up on its surface that is not also on the chassis, so no difference of potential.

True earth ground is hard to come by. My house (and all houses around here) has a copper stake driven into the ground near the box. That only works well if there is a bit of moisture in the soil. (Dry areas have to do more. To ground a transmitting antenna reliably, it is often necessary to bury a large copper sheet.) This earth ground, the bare green wire in your house wiring, is ideally at the same potential as the neutral wire (US system), by convention the white one. This green wire is supposed to be physically connected to any exposed metal in the system---the boxes, the cover plates, etc. The phone company takes earth ground from your water supply main pipe, more often than not. This is at the same potential as the copper stake, ideally. You can take earth ground there, too. Any sort of wire of any length run from your supply pipe to where you are building your computer will be perfect for anti-static grounding. Earth ground is all the same.
 
I agree DO NOT plug the power cord in when you are building a computer, the main reason for this is that the 5v standby supply is on all the time and if you plug anything in it could cause the main power supply to turn on when the card is half way in causing damage to the computer.
 

nickmo94

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So, here's the deal. I unplugged the hard drive and one stick of RAM, in addition to every single USB I/O connector.

I double checked every cord inside, and everything is plugged in properly. No problems whatsoever regarding that. I even double checked my manual, and used a flashlight to ensure that everything was plugged in fully.

Here's what happened: again, all the fans ran. The CPU fan and all three GPU fans turned on properly (I could see them through the chassis using a flashlight). All three case fans also turned on, and again, the front "Power" LED turned on, and my front fan red LEDs also turned on.

But, once again, no POST sound, or any sound aside from the fans running.


I did however, while looking through the chassis to make sure the fans were running, discover that my motherboard has a debug tool, which, to my knowledge, flashes numbers on it that corresponds with a code in the manual. For each number that it stalled on (some it stalled on longer than others), I looked up the code. What follows is the number code I saw on the Dr. Debug tool, followed by the code that appears in the manual which I believe to have corresponded with the number I saw, and following the colon is what the manual says regarding that code.

19, 0x19: "Pre-Memory South Bridge initialization is started"
32, 0x32: "CPU Post-memory initialization is started"
42, 0x4F (there was no 0x42 in the manual, so I'm assuming that this corresponds? This was the only one that had a 4 in the tens place in the manual): "DXE IPL is started"
62, 0x62: "DXE Core is started"

Those were the numbers that appeared most. It stalled on 62 the longest, and 42 the second longest, and would loop over and over afterwards.


Would anyone have any idea on what the debug info means for me? I don't really know what DXE IPL or post-memory initialization mean...

Anyways, I'll probably remove my wireless card and GPU next, leaving only the chassis hookups, the motherboard, the CPU, and one stick of RAM.


For now though, some feedback on what this means would be particularly helpful.




But then, how should I ground myself? I don't have any anti-static wristbands...
 
Have you cleared the CMOS? Do it properly with the link on the motherboard with the power cord disconnected. You should always clear the CMOS when you fit a new processor to a motherboard. You may find this link interesting as it is the same problem as yours and was fixed by clearing the CMOS.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/322931-13-computer-boot-problems

But then, how should I ground myself? I don't have any anti-static wristbands...

If you are worried about static buy a wrist strap and earth it. Computer shops sell them and they are cheap.
 
You can discharge a static electric build up by touching the wall switch and hearing the crackle or snap of release and once you do that you are free to plug in the Pc as long as you don't walk over carpet and you want to keep contact with the case while your working on it.
Since you have recently purchased the parts have you thought about calling the tech support of the motherboard , since it does have that debug tool they would be able to interpet the codes and let you know what is happening , after all the motherboard could actually be defective. Do not mention static electricity to tech support at all , you don't want to give some lazy tech support person a way out of helping you.
 

nickmo94

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I did clear the CMOS, but I did so by pressing a "CLR CMOS" button in the I/O area that was lit up red. Also, it only lights up when the power is plugged in, so I assumed I should only use it with the power on. Pressing it yesterday turned on the computer again, but with no better results. I am assuming that the manual way is the way I should be doing it then, right?

Here is what a person said on the thread you pointed me to.

"Clear cmos. Belt suspenders and a rope approach: unplug, remove battery, press case power button 5 times, go grab a cup of coffee, re-install battery, and plug in. "

Well, I'm still not sure how I'm supposed to do this. What battery? I am not aware of any mobo battery.




What type of wall switch do you mean? Sorry, I'm not sure.

I will consider calling tech support at some point if a few more troubleshooting solutions don't pan out.
 

nickmo94

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Well, I figured out how to manually reset the CMOS with a jumper, and I did that. I also removed the GPU and the only pieces left in my PC were the wireless card, the motherboard, and the CPU+Heatsink. I left the chassis wiring plugged in, as well as the speaker, but still no beeps, and the Dr. Debug program gives me the same numbers as before.

I'm going to RMA the board if tech support doesn't help tomorrow. Bummer.
 

aaab

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That's why you switch the PSU off at the wall, but leave it plugged in... that way the case is grounded.
 

aaab

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Sorry just remembered that in the USA people don't often have wall switches!! Where I'm from I've never seen a wall plug without a switch!

I think we can mostly agree that due to the symptoms you are seeing it would be very unlikely that it was caused by static electricity.
 

Petrofsky

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... if the wall socket was wired correctly and nothing has changed in it since. Too great a risk to take with 240V. American 120 will ruin your day, but Euro 240 will light up your life.
 

aaab

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We have very strict standards here so that is VERY unlikely that it's wired wrong.

Anyway if it was wired wrong wouldn't the PSU fuse blow? Also you would be at just as much risk by pluging in your toaster...

Just by the way, the voltage is not what kills you. You can be shocked by 10,000 volts and survive.
 

nickmo94

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Okay, that is very good to know, as I was very worried that this was the case. Now time to RMA my board...
 

aaab

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I asked before, are you using the spacers that came with the case? That seems to be a common issue for first time builders and it will cause the issues that you are having.

I.e. the bottom of the motherboard should not be touching any metal. apart from where the spacers are touching the screw holes
 

Petrofsky

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1. Don't tell me, tell St Peter when you see him how unlikely it was.

2. a. No. b. But your toaster doesn't cost 1000 pounds, and you're not sticking your fingers in the toaster.

3. No, you can't. What starts as 10,000 volts falls to a very low level instantly in the case you speak of. And voltage can indeed kill you in the case of a near miss by lightning; the electrons in your body move because of the field. But that's all beside the point. "Kill" is the word you have to focus on. Your wall socket does not have static electricity in it, it can push tens of amps at 240 volts once the heat ruptures your skin. Anyway, most injuries from electrical shock are busted teeth and cuts from jerking back.

All I'm saying is treat a plugged-in power cord like a gun---always assume that it's loaded. It is simply not safe.
 

aaab

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You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and as this is completely off topic I'll let you keep your ignorance. nickmo94 I am sorry about hijacking your thread
 

Petrofsky

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I normally ignore posts like this one, having posted in many different forums for a long time and having long since grown weary of pissing contests with strangers, but this is an important point. I won't state my credentials, since there's no way for anyone to verify them, so let the readers be the judge of who sounds more like he knows what he's talking about. Electricity is dangerous. Unplug the power cord from the wall before working on your computer, or anything else, for that matter, even a toaster. It's just common sense, but what if the person who wired the plug put the switch in the neutral side instead of the hot? What if something else is haywire that you don't know about? One's knowledge of electrical wiring or lack of it has no bearing on safe practice. Unplug things before working on them.
 

darkguset

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My opinion:
Although static could be an issue, with the new hardware it has been a long long time since I have seen anything getting zapped, so it is highly unlikely.
Other things to try:
Reset the CMOS (WITHOUT POWER). You should not be trying to reset the CMOS while the motherboard has power, othewise you could end up damaging your motherboard. Also, when resetting, keep the button pressed (or the pin on) for 10+ seconds. That should ensure that the memory gets cleared.

Confirm that your CPU and RAM are compatible with your motherboard. Unfortunately DDR3 sticks from different manufacturers cause a lot of problems with different motherboards. (Visit the mobo page to see if it supports the CPU, then visit the RAM manufacturer page to see if it supports your mobo)

Lastly, you could try taking your CPU out, check for any bent pins (on the CPU if it is AMD, or on the motherboard if it is Intel). If any of them are bent, there is your problem.

Try these for now and see how you go.
 

pairenoid

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how far did your computer go when you turned it on besides fans spinning

nothing display on screen? did you plug in the sound speaker that comes with the mobo correctly? i have the same mobo
 

tsd16

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I am going to say its probably not a static issue. The first time I installed a component when i was 17 back in 2000. I left the PSU plugged in and switched the PSU switch off to allegedly ground the pc. I was greeted with a zap sound and an a fried motherboard for my effort. (it was a gateway PC, and fortunately they didnt ask any questions when I sent it back for warranty support). I never left it plugged in again.

Ive since then ive been pretty lax at times with static prevention and never had a problem. Most of the time if I experience your issue, its resolved with a cmos reset or reseating the memory.