If you had $2500(CAN) to spend...

[cdpage]

<b>What would you build?</b>

Girlfriend's wants to Buy a <b>G5 (Dual 1.8 $2789)</b> soon(couple weeks).She works on Mac at her workplace.
She, like myself, Likes the Mac platform, but <b><i>can't justify buying one.</i></b>

Sub $2500(Can), how would build your machine, for:
-Design - <i>Web & Press</i>
-Multi-Tasking - <i>PhotoShop, Fireworks, Illustator...etc</i>
-Minor gaming - <i>Possibly connected to my machine.</i>

I have So far:

Case: Xpider (Mid Tower 350W P4, 2 Front USB,Case Fan,Silver)
-<b>CPU:</b> P4 3.0C
-<b>MoBo:</b> ASUS P4P800-Deluxe
-<b>RAM:</b> 512 x 2
-<b>Vid:</b> Sapphire/Gigabyte 9600XT 128M DDR
-<b>HD:</b> WD 120G S-ATA
-ROM1: LG 52x24x52 CDRW & 16X DVD Combo
-ROM2: Waiting for Better DVD burner... no rush here.
-<b>Mon:</b> Samsung 173V 17" LCD

<i>I'm looking for something <b>Better</b>, So...Suggestions for...</i>

-<b>Case:</b> something Quite, under $100 goes well with a Glass and metalic table
-<b>CPU:</b> Anything Goes, Must be good at Multi-tasking.
-<b>MoBo: ???</b>
-<b>HD:</b> WD or Maxtor? Price/Performance?
-<b>Monitor:</b> Flat panel 17" or more


<b><A HREF="http://www.digitalgunfire.com" target="_new">DigitalGunfire-Industrial EBM</A></b>
ASUS P4S8X-P4 2.4B - 2x512M DDR333 - ATI 9500Pro - WD80G HD(8M) - SAMSUNG SV0844D 8G HD - LG 16X DVD - Yamaha F1 CDRW<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by cdpage on 06/14/04 00:23 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[P4Man]

I find that price not unreasonable for a nice and fairly potent dual cpu workstation. Of course you'd want to add more ram, and a bigger disk.. and upgrade the videocard if you intend to do some gameing, so you'll quickly exceed $3000, but just to compare, I tried configuring a similar BOXX dual opteron workstation, with 2 opteron 242's, 1 gig of ram, similar options otherwise, and I end up with >$4.600 (CAN).

Obviously a single cpu P4 or A64 will be cheaper, and might be fast enough, but I just thought I'd point this out nevertheless. Apple's pricing doesnt seem outrageous at all on the lower end dual G5's.. If she is used to working on a MAC, maybe has access to Mac software through her work, I'd consider it if it fits the budget. Otherwise a singe cpu A64 would be my alternative

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[HardWareBoss]

Mobo for P4 Abit IS7. That should give you more money for BBA 9800Pro vid card. Do you need S-ATA HD?

 

[cdpage]

No i do not 'Need' a S-ATA HD, i prefer one... I Just like having a cleaner system in side...
i would however like a board like my own, one that will take 4 HDs, 2xIDE and 2xS-ATA should this machine ever become a storage unit too.

I'll take a look at that Mobo you suggested. thanks.

As for Graphic's cards. higher end is not too important here. HOWEVER... I would like to have a MoBo that will be able to support PCI-X for the next generation of cards.

so for now, im looking for best price performance on most things.

<b><A HREF="http://www.digitalgunfire.com" target="_new">DigitalGunfire-Industrial EBM</A></b>
ASUS P4S8X-P4 2.4B - 2x512M DDR333 - ATI 9500Pro - WD80G HD(8M) - SAMSUNG SV0844D 8G HD - LG 16X DVD - Yamaha F1 CDRW

 

[cdpage]

Thanks for looking in to that for me...
what of the Intel equivalent? Xeon's? is there a dual P4?

or was that realy the best Price/Perfomace machine that i'd be able to put together?


Yes, She'd need more Ram, HD space... maybe, better Vid card, no. But the Price of the Mac will still exceed $3000 before Taxes.

where the PC will be $500 less and come with a 17" LCD Monitor.
Its not a Dual, but it will perform equally as well as the Mac no?

<b><A HREF="http://www.digitalgunfire.com" target="_new">DigitalGunfire-Industrial EBM</A></b>
ASUS P4S8X-P4 2.4B - 2x512M DDR333 - ATI 9500Pro - WD80G HD(8M) - SAMSUNG SV0844D 8G HD - LG 16X DVD - Yamaha F1 CDRW

 

[P4Man]

>what of the Intel equivalent? Xeon's? is there a dual P4?

No, if you want dual cpu x86, you need either a Xeon or an Opteron which will really put you in a different price category..

>or was that realy the best Price/Perfomace machine that i'd
>be able to put together?

I didn't really check for that, I just wanted to put some perspective on the dual G5 price, which isnt that bad at all. Anyway, to live up to my reputation, I'd have to recommend an A64 instead of the P4. If she's into DTP/design/3D/Photoshop,.. 64 bit capabilities could prove usefull. If you decide not to go for a Mac, but a windows machine instead, I'd get an A64.

>Its not a Dual, but it will perform equally as well as the
>Mac no?

Probably.. depends on the apps though, and a dual cpu machine really is "better" than a single cpu, no matter how fast the single cpu machine is, dual is much more responsive. That being said, its probably fair to say that a single fast P4 or A64 would beat a dual 1.8 GHz in most raw benchmarks.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[cdpage]

ok well we're still undesided, but would still like some feed back on the PC system.

We More or less know where things stand with the Mac.

So as it stands we'll be putting this together for $1750CAN now

CPU: P4 3.4
MoBo: ASUS P4800S
HD: Maxtor 120G ATA133 or WD 120G S-ATA
RAM: 2 x 512
VID: Gigabyte 9600XT
ROM1: LG 16XDVD
ROM2: LG GSA 4081B 4X DVD-R 8X DVD+R
Monitor: Samsung 173V 17 LCD

Questions:
1. I Looked at the Asus P4800's and the Abit IS7 any other suggestions? Not looking for OC'ing here, but perhaps future upgrading.

2. Pro/Con to ATA133 vs S-ATA?

3. Is this monitor any good? have any recomendations? for around the $500-$750CAN range. Im lost here. Read all the articals here... but there are so monitors out there.



<b><A HREF="http://www.digitalgunfire.com" target="_new">DigitalGunfire-Industrial EBM</A></b>
ASUS P4S8X-P4 2.4B - 2x512M DDR333 - ATI 9500Pro - WD80G HD(8M) - SAMSUNG SV0844D 8G HD - LG 16X DVD - Yamaha F1 CDRW

 

[Tavelkyosoba]

i get so jealous of people with money...

that said ill answer the ata133 vs sata question.

with current hard drive speeds of 7200rpm, both ata133 and sata are much faster than the drive can actually give data to be transferred. if you think about it, most drives can only transfer something like 40 mb/s(not sure on the exact numbers) but it is WELL below the 133 mb/s and 150 mb/s standards of the ata133 and sata.

so really, the interface speed doesn't matter, so the only reason you or i are left with to get an sata hdd is the thin cable...however round ide cables are now readily availible, and these provide the same function as the small sata cable.

i would stick with ata100 or 133 just because they're like 10 bucks cheaper for the same benefits and performance.

"I see" said the blind man to his deaf dog<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Tavelkyosoba on 06/21/04 01:08 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[cdpage]

Yeah, She's been saving up and holding off for over a year now...so she's got some fundage.

you have a good point there. thanks.

how about software/driver/... that sorta thing.

anything differ with the two HDs?

<b><A HREF="http://www.digitalgunfire.com" target="_new">DigitalGunfire-Industrial EBM</A></b>
ASUS P4S8X-P4 2.4B - 2x512M DDR333 - ATI 9500Pro - WD80G HD(8M) - SAMSUNG SV0844D 8G HD - LG 16X DVD - Yamaha F1 CDRW<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by cdpage on 06/22/04 11:05 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Tavelkyosoba]

well either drive is probably fine. i like maxtors more b/c whenever i deviate from them its bad news...but people have said the same about WD and seagate too...so just whatever is cheapest. <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=22-144-136&depa=0" target="_new">this guy</A> is what i would choose if i were you...but <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=22-144-107&depa=0" target="_new">this fella's</A> a good candidate as well.

there aren't really any difference between the two, its said maxtors run hotter, but then again its said the WD's dont last as long. i dont listen to what is said, just what i've seen. i've either had real bad luck with WD or they're just not as good as maxtor somehow. i dont know.

and your software questiong...dont really know what you mean, sorry.

I've got a book of matches,
I've got a can of kerosene,
I've got some bright ideas involving you and me.

 

[Tavelkyosoba]

i was thinking, it might be wise for you to check out amd's athlon 64 line, instead of getting a p4. they beat equal or beat intels on a lot of benches...and i have a little story; i used an intel p4 2.8 ghz before, and it deffiantly seemed slower in windows than my athlon xp 2400. intels seem slow to switch between tasks, but when they're doing something they do it fast(not much faster than an amd though). i guess they're not as responsive as AMD's.

socket 745 is becoming the new budget standard...so if you get a 745 board and chip, it will be upgradable in the future.

socket 939 is a bit more pricy than you're p4, so i would't go with that.

there are many threads about good athlon 64 boards in the forum, so just poke around and read up a bit.

intel is another product that i have used, and have been displeased with.

I've got a book of matches,
I've got a can of kerosene,
I've got some bright ideas involving you and me.

 

[fobtastic]

Hey cdpage, it looks like we're trying to build the same kind of computer with the same kind of budget. You can check out my thread over <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=182109#182109" target="_new">here</A>. The only difference is that I'm putting a little more emphasis on gaming.

Here's how my system is shaping up:
P4 3.2GHz C
ABIT IS7
Corsair TwinX 1024 PC3200 2x512MB
Sapphire Radeon X800 Pro 256MB
Seagate Barracuda 200GB 7200RPM
LiteOn DVD+-RW 8x4x/8x4x
Mitsumi 7-in-1 Floppy Drive and Flash Reader

So far, this comes out to about $2023 Canadian over at ncix.com. Your girlfriend probably doesn't need an X800, so you can knock off another $400 or so depending on what you're replacing it with. She might not even need that 7-in-1 reader, but I think it'll come in handy if she does any digital photography. This puts the price at $1623, leaving you with $877 for the case, power supply, monitor, and anything else she might need.

Since your girlfriend is doing graphic design I would personally recommend getting a high-end CRT monitor (you'll have to do some research) over a mid-range LCD. From what I understand, CRTs are still significantly greather than LCDs when it comes to colour reproduction. LaCie monitors are quite popular in the graphic design industry. Then again, if your girlfriend nags at you for choosing a CRT beast, don't blame me!

To make matters more complicated, I'm still debating on if I should go with an A64 solution, which would put me back at square one. It feels like all the benchmarks say that the P4 is the way to go for graphic design applications, but despite that, everyone I talk to seems to think that the A64 is the better choice. In addition, it's hard to say what things will be like once 64-bit applications are available.

Another thing that confuses me is a comment made in this thread about the responsiveness when multitasking. I thought HyperThreading was supposed to give Pentiums the advantage?

BTW, if you find a nice case, please let me know. I'm looking for one that'll go well with a dark brown/silver <A HREF="http://www.ikea.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10101&storeId=3&productId=20756&langId=-15&parentCats=10121*10390" target="_new">Jerker</A> table from Ikea.

Good luck! It's good to know I'm not the only one fighting this battle!

 

[Cybercraig]

Man you must have had a Celeron! No 2.8C should ever get beat by an XP-2400! That thing must have barked when you booted up! :lol:

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. Now, let's eat!

 

[jclw]

Just to throw something different out there:

$300 - Asus PC-DL
$350 - Xeon 2.4 (533FSB)
$350 - Xeon 2.4 (533FSB)
$250 - 2x512MB generic PC3200
$175 - Antec 1080 w/430W TruePower PS
$300 - 9800pro
$50 - 16x DVD-ROM
$125 - NEC ND-2510A 8x +/-RW DL
$150 - 120GB 8MB WD SATA HDD
$300 - Samsung 19" 955DF CRT (or local equivalent)
--------
$2350

Also keep in mind that's before taxes, and doesn't include an OS (WinXP Pro will run you $225 for an OEM version). All prices online from NCIX, PcCanada, and CanadaComputers.

It's a little more expensive, but it'll blow anything else listed out of the water in terms of multitasking, and it'll fly through multi-threaded apps like PhotoShop. You could save by ditching the 9800pro in favour of a 9600 class card, but if it's less then a ~$50 difference I'd stick with the 9800pro.

If you're interested in overclocking, it's also relatively easy to force that board to 800FSB, and get the Xeons up into the 3.0~3.4ghz range, as they have downward unlocked multipliers.

Anyways, just tought I'd throw that in for comparison.

*Dual PIII-800 @900 i440BX and Tualeron 1.2 @1.7 i815*

 

[jclw]

Also,

Don't confuse PCI-X and PCI-E. PCI-X is a 64bit/66mhz+ extention of the current 32bit/33mhz parallel PCI bus. PCI-E is a new high speed serial bus with a base transfer rate of 250mb/s for a 1x slot. PCI-E slots will be available in 1x, 2x, 4,x 8x, 16x, and 32x configurations. A 16x PCI-E slot connected to the northbridge is known as a PEG slot, for PCI-Express Graphics.

The Samsung 172X is a good 17" LCD, with fast response for gaming. If you're looking at reviews online be careful because many of the reviewers received 25ms sample panels from Samsung. All the retail panels are 12ms.

*Dual PIII-800 @900 i440BX and Tualeron 1.2 @1.7 i815*

 

[cdpage]

Thanks JC,

its good to get a look at such a system.

tell me, with little switching around i'll prolly bring that system down a couple hundred (2150-2250, before Tax)

that said, is the perfomance worth the extra $500-600?

<b><A HREF="http://www.digitalgunfire.com" target="_new">DigitalGunfire-Industrial EBM</A></b>
ASUS P4S8X-P4 2.4B - 2x512M DDR333 - ATI 9500Pro - WD80G HD(8M) - SAMSUNG SV0844D 8G HD - LG 16X DVD - Yamaha F1 CDRW

 

[cdpage]

Yes thanks JC, i do get the E and the X mixed up, perhaps i'll stick the new 'PEG' Lable?

the PCI-E is something that i want to keep in mind when looking for a MoBo.

Are their any boards that suppors both the PCI-E and AGP 8x?


<b><A HREF="http://www.digitalgunfire.com" target="_new">DigitalGunfire-Industrial EBM</A></b>
ASUS P4S8X-P4 2.4B - 2x512M DDR333 - ATI 9500Pro - WD80G HD(8M) - SAMSUNG SV0844D 8G HD - LG 16X DVD - Yamaha F1 CDRW

 

[jclw]

that said, is the perfomance worth the extra $500-600?

It's one of those things that really depends on how you use your computer and what you expect of it. For some people it's worth it, for others it's not. I nearly didn't post anything, but decided to because of the applications you listed, and because you said you wanted something that multitasked really well.

I built my dually (dual PIII-800Es on an Asus P2B-D midly overclocked to 900 each) in the spring of 2000 for the multitasking performance after reading a few reviews. I wasn't really expecting it to last any more then three years before I outgrew it but four and a half years later it's still my main workstation. I find it multitasks better then any of the P4 2.6s or 2.8s in the office for day to day office stuff (Word, Excel, Outlook, IE, Acad, and Acrobat are my usual things on the go). It's still pretty much the same system as it was when I bought it - I did throw a Promise RAID controller in with a few new drives, and I recently purchased a DVD burner but apart from that everything is original.

A thread that might interest you:
<A HREF="http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=306333" target="_new">http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=306333</A>. Also 2cpu.com is a good place to get dually info: <A HREF="http://www.2cpu.com/" target="_new">http://www.2cpu.com/</A>. For the simple PC-DL 800FSB overclocking trick scroll down to post #15 here: <A HREF="http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=299042" target="_new">http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=299042</A>

To me it was worth the extra money - not only did I get a faster computer but it has lasted me considerably longer then a single PIII-1000EB ever would have. Also duallys tend to be targeted at the server market so they tend to be better built then their uniprocessor siblings. Mine is still as rock stable as the day I first turned it on.

*Dual PIII-800 @900 i440BX and Tualeron 1.2 @1.7 i815*

 

[JuntaJoe]

Figured I'd drop a copy of this in both threads for a new pc.

I need a new pc myself and have a budget of $2500US.

And I'm having trouble deciding on my cpu/mobo combo.

Never been a fan of AMD and I do both gaming and graphics.

What bothers me is all the built-ins on the mobos. Since I intend to get ATI 9800 graphics and SB Platinum Pro, I have zero need for on-board graphics and sound. But it seems all the top end mobos have them. Sure I want the other extras, but having two sound and graphics systems seems redundant, a potential trouble source, and wasted money.

To complicate my hunt further, I'm intrigued by the dual Xeon option. But I'm worried about software/gaming compatability problems. If need be, I'll settle for a single high end P4, like 3.2 or 3.4. Maybe even an Extreme.

I'll probably go for 2 10krpm 74 gig SATA drives striped and add another 2 later when I start adding other programs.

So what would you all recommend for a cpu/mobo combo?

Is there a full featured mobo from MSI, Intel, or Asus that has all the bells and whistles EXCEPT onboard sound and graphics?

 

[jclw]

If it's mainly a gaming machine I'd stick with a uniprocessor box. It's not that duallies don't game well, it's just not worth it. Then again it's always fun to transcode a DVD on one CPU while you do some fragging on the other...

I doubt you'll have any compatibility problems on a dually. Obviously a single threaded game will run faster on a single P4 3.2C then it will on dual Xeon 2.4s, but it's not like it won't run at all.

Most of the highend boards don't have any onboard graphics, but most do include sound (which is easily disabled in the BIOS). Have a look at the Asus P4P800 or P4C800 boards.

*Dual PIII-800 @900 i440BX and Tualeron 1.2 @1.7 i815*

 

[JuntaJoe]

I must admit partiality to Xeons. You see, my current home pc is P2 Xeon that has kept me in the game for almost 6 years. It's only in the past year that I've been unable to buy the latest games. I was just going to get a mid range uniprocessor for home use until I found out I would be doing more work at home.

I was tempted to buy the P4 Extreme until I saw the notes on dual Xeons. I hate when system resources get hogged by background programs and figured that 2 Xeons would fix that issue because the background utilities would use the second processor. I also love the durability of a Xeon. I've never met a person who regretted having one other than the price. But the cost of an Extreme puts me in the price range of 2 Xeons these days.

I'm only worried that some games and consumer programs would have compatability issues with 2 processors.

And I don't have any info on a top line dual processor mobo as well.

As for your Asus mobo recommendation, I've been thinking the same thing for a while now. Everything I've read gives it kudos. If I go the uniprocessor route, I figure to get that one.

 

[Cybercraig]

There is no board in the world that has built-in graphics equal to a 9800-Pro! However, there are a lot of boards with built in sound better than SB Live!


"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. Now, let's eat!

 

[jclw]

I'm only worried that some games and consumer programs would have compatability issues with 2 processors

I wouldn't worry about that - Since all HyperThreading P4 processors present two logical CPUs to the OS it means that those applications wouldn't work on a standard P4 either. I've never had any issues like that on my dually. Plus the trend will be to program for SMP systems with all this HyperThreading and dual core talk.

Best standard P4 Xeon motherboard is the Asus PC-DL. This board uses the exact same i875 Northbridge and ICH5R Southbridge as the Asus P4C800.

Best PCI-X P4 Xeon motherboard is the Iwill DH800. It uses the same i875 Northbridge, but a HanceRapids Southbridge to give 64bit/66mhz PCI-X support.

*Dual PIII-800 @900 i440BX and Tualeron 1.2 @1.7 i815*

 

[cdpage]

well i thought i'd let those know who try to help me out what we ended up with.

15"PowerBook

$2600 system not too too bad a deal compaired it to a toshiba satelite, and they were both price/preformancely competitive.

each had their pros and cons...

In the end it was the MAC that won. Simply becasue she is more comfortable on one.



<b><A HREF="http://www.digitalgunfire.com" target="_new">DigitalGunfire-Industrial EBM</A></b>
ASUS P4S8X-P4 2.4B - 2x512M DDR333 - ATI 9500Pro - WD80G HD(8M) - SAMSUNG SV0844D 8G HD - LG 16X DVD - Yamaha F1 CDRW

 

[jclw]

Glad you got something picked

How's the battery life on the powerbooks?

*Dual PIII-800 @900 i440BX and Tualeron 1.2 @1.7 i815*