I'm about to die (Castle?)

[Manuel]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

(I may have double-posted this because of mistyping, sorry)

My Valkyrie, Khia, has completed the Quest successfully,
and after quite a bit of monster-bashing arrived to Medusa's
level and killed Medusa with little effort (I didn't know
what the level would be like, but Telepathy revealed Medusa
and I put on a blindfold before approaching).

After that, I went down to find a maze (and a very mazy one
indeed), and I suppose this is the beginning of the Mazes of
Menace (am I right?). I went down one level, then fell down
a trapdoor. I must be then about dlvl 25 or so. I #invoke'd
the Orb wanting to teleport upwards, but I reappeared at
exatly dlvl 27 and read something like "You hear the tones of
courtly conversation". A throne room, I thought. I put on my
towel and gasp. Two blocks of soldiers + sergeants + captain,
two liches, some trolls and giants, two xorns, two disenchan-
ters, FOUR *adult* dragons (grey, silver, black, orange) and
some sharks and giant eels.

All of those spaced in a very particular way, so that it's
clear it's a special level. Is that the Castle everyone talks
about?

These are my present stats:
Khia the Warrior St:25 Dx:16 Co:18 In:10 Wi:11 Ch:11
HP:219(219) Pw:3(3) AC:-6 Exp:15 Satiated

I am wielding The Blessed +6 Mjollnir, and wearing the polished
silver shield I found not long ago, GoP, oilskin cloak and some
common armor items. I have polymorph and poly control, but not
enough Pw to use the breath attack of a dragon.

I am taking some precautions: I search often for traps, I am
wearing the oilskin cloak to avoid giant eels... but I am sure
I am forgetting something. There's nothing I can do now to get
magic resistance (though I have the Orb, which helps a little
bit), and I have many reasons to think I'll die soon.

Please, don't spoil me further than what I ask explicitly:
- Is this the Castle?

- Does the "polished silver shield" help against dragon
breath attacks?

- Is there a big danger I am helpless against?

- Is there something I *NEED* to know in order to avoid a sudden
death in this level?


My only worry now is not to die an annoying death. I don't mind
monsters killing me in a fair fight, but I really don't want to
die because of a special kind of trap or something.

--
Manuel.

 

[Manuel]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Rast wrote:
> Manuel wrote:
> > - Is there a big danger I am helpless against?
>
> You don't have magic resistance, so Liches and other nasty monsters
can
> disintegrate your armor or kill you instantly.

<snip>

> Given your lack of magic resistance, I suggest using one of these
various
> spoily techniques for beating the castle: pbasyvpg, pbpxngevpr
pbecfr,
> qenjoevqtr thvyybgvar.

Thanks, but I've decided not to read those. If lack of MR is only
a danger when facing Liches, I'll avoid them or kill them from a
distance. If there is more trouble related to lack of MR, please
do tell me.

> > - Is there something I *NEED* to know in order to avoid a sudden
> > death in this level?
>
> Watch out for the drawbridge. It can instantly kill you.
>
> The eels in the moat can grab and then drown you.


So, if I understand well:
- If I am wearing an oilsking cloak I needn't worry about eels
- I must NEVER face a Lich directly until I have MR
- I must keep out of the drawbridge while possible

I'll try to kill the Liches by throwing Mjollnir (I've been doing
that for quite a while, and I don't think it's a big risk since
I have Frost Brand as a nice backup weapon and I'm shock resistant).

As for the drawbridge, I need to see it before I think if I can
bypass it. I have a ring of Levitation to float over water, and I
can poly into a Xorn to phase walls (unless these are impassable,
don't tell me). But I'll try to stay in human form unless I need
to poly into something else.

 

[Manuel]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Rast wrote:
> Given your lack of magic resistance, I suggest using one of these
various
> spoily techniques for beating the castle: <snip>

Silly me!
I've just remembered that I have a Ring of Conflict!

Good thing that I noticed in time, it's really a Good Idea
to think for some time before getting into action :-D

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Manuel wrote on 5 Apr 2005 17:51:37 -0700:
> Please, don't spoil me further than what I ask explicitly:
> - Is this the Castle?

Yes.

> - Does the "polished silver shield" help against dragon
> breath attacks?

They will bounce off you harmlessly.

> - Is there a big danger I am helpless against?

You don't have magic resistance, so Liches and other nasty monsters can
disintegrate your armor or kill you instantly.

Some would consider your AC to be "too low", but IMO your HP and the Orb
more than make up for it.

Given your lack of magic resistance, I suggest using one of these various
spoily techniques for beating the castle: pbasyvpg, pbpxngevpr pbecfr,
qenjoevqtr thvyybgvar.

> - Is there something I *NEED* to know in order to avoid a sudden
> death in this level?

Watch out for the drawbridge. It can instantly kill you.

The eels in the moat can grab and then drown you.




--
"Sometimes I stand by the door and look into the darkness. Then I
am reminded how dearly I cherish my boredom, and what a precious
commodity is so much misery." -- Jack Vance

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Manuel" <manuel.matias@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1112753592.179343.65270@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Rast wrote:
>> Given your lack of magic resistance, I suggest using one of these
> various
>> spoily techniques for beating the castle: <snip>
>
> Silly me!
> I've just remembered that I have a Ring of Conflict!
>
> Good thing that I noticed in time, it's really a Good Idea
> to think for some time before getting into action :-D
>

It's a bit of a waste of potential experience points though.

P.S. I have never lowered the drawbridge. Why would you?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Nick Hounsome" <nh002@nickhounsome.me.uk> writes:

> It's a bit of a waste of potential experience points though.
>
> P.S. I have never lowered the drawbridge. Why would you?

By the time you get to the castle, you usually aren't in
dire need of more expectation. The drawbridge trick is
a good means for weak characters who really need some
wishes to boost their stats a bit. Further, one can
conveniently take care of some more annoying monsters,
like golden nagas.

Best,
Jakob

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Nick Hounsome" <nh002@nickhounsome.me.uk> writes:

> It's a bit of a waste of potential experience points though.
>
> P.S. I have never lowered the drawbridge. Why would you?

By the time you get to the castle, you usually aren't in
dire need of more experience. The drawbridge trick is
a good means for weak characters who really need some
wishes to boost their stats a bit. Further, one can
conveniently take care of some more annoying monsters,
like golden nagas.

Best,
Jakob

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Nick Hounsome wrote:

> P.S. I have never lowered the drawbridge. Why would you?

- because it's fun.
- because the castle lobby contains some creatures you don't want to deal
with via more conventional means.
- because it's fun.
- because you don't have a source of levitation/cold/jumping/water
walking/convenient boulder/something else I missed.
- because it's fun.
- because you want to prove what a Master Mind you are.
- because it's fun.

--
Benjamin Lewis

You hear smashing and crushing!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Manuel wrote:


>
> Thanks, but I've decided not to read those. If lack of MR is only
> a danger when facing Liches, I'll avoid them or kill them from a
> distance. If there is more trouble related to lack of MR, please
> do tell me.

Liches are not the only critters that can instant kill or destroy your
armor. There are things that are much worse and that you won't be
able to run away from that easy. (although there is still ways to
avoid them.)

Try to get MR as soon as possible.

Jorge

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Wed, 5 Apr 2005, Manuel wrote:

> All of those spaced in a very particular way, so that it's
> clear it's a special level. Is that the Castle everyone talks
> about?
>
> Please, don't spoil me further than what I ask explicitly:
> - Is this the Castle?

You probably know that there is a reliable in-game source of wisdom.
Especially concerning that particular level this entity has valuable
information.

--
Philipp Lucas
phlucas@online-club.de

 

[Manuel]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

<story about reaching the Castle for the first time>

Only to keep you guys informed...

(rather long, quite spoily)

I cleared the Castle successfully, thanks to my beautiful set
of rings (polymorph, polymorph control, levitation, conflict).

The only time I was scared was when I fell through a trapdoor
into the Valley of the Dead. Luckily enough, I appeared next
to the stairs up and went back up immediately. Now, after some
more playing I have forgotten where the stairs were, and I
can't find them, so I'll fall again through a trapdoor when I
want to come down.

The throne was no good, and the wand was (0:2) I think.
I wished for:
- 2b?oCharging
- GDSM (got blessed +2)
- (nothing happens -> I charge it)

- Ring of Teleport Control (good with the Orb)
- Blessed BoH (I had blown up the one from Sokoban)
- Blessed Magic Marker
- (zap, if nothing happens then goto 10) Cursed Magic Marker

I teleported up to do some writing, enchanting and such. I had
few blank scrolls, and I had a "good" idea: reverse-genocide
paper golems and get some paper... "No, mortal, that will not
be done!". Sigh. I was given another chance, and I brought some
tengu, trying to get intrinsic TC... but they were peaceful, and
I don't like to anger my God. One scroll wasted (and some ink).

Later I made a bigger mistake. I had read that wearing dragon
scales (or scale mail) makes you polymorph in that kind of dragon
regardless of poly control. I tried, and it worked. But I kept
the ring on... I polyed into a hill giant and broke my GDSM :-(
To get a new one, I reverse-genocided gray dragons, got some
scales, wrote Enchant Armor, and presto! b+1GDSM.

Then I gathered some potions of little use from all around,
diluted them, prayed for holy water (and got +oDrainLife btw),
blessed some stuff and kept some holy water for when needed.

My last blank scroll was good for fixing my "uncursed very rusty
thoroughly corroded" Gauntlets of Power. They're good as new now.

Now I'll walk the way down picking up every potion and scroll,
and if I can charge my /oPoly I may polypile some armor and wands
at the Castle. By the way, I'll train myself with the Silver
Saber, just in case I find the chance to lay the shield aside and
#twoweapon Mjollnir + SS (or Frost Brand + SS).


Some questions linger in my mind...

- Can I get some "special" armor (water walking boots et al) by
polymorphing normal items of armor?

- What is actually the point in blessing armor? Only to avoid it
getting cursed? Or is there a bigger reason?


I'll be grateful for any comments about my mistakes (and about
what I did right!) and what to learn from them.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Spoily answers below










Manuel wrote:
> <story>
>
> The only time I was scared was when I fell through a trapdoor
> into the Valley of the Dead. Luckily enough, I appeared next
> to the stairs up and went back up immediately. Now, after some
> more playing I have forgotten where the stairs were, and I
> can't find them, so I'll fall again through a trapdoor when I
> want to come down.

The trap doors are the only way down to the VotD - don't block them up
with boulders.


> The throne was no good, and the wand was (0:2) I think.
> I wished for:
> - 2b?oCharging
> - GDSM (got blessed +2)
> - Ring of Teleport Control (good with the Orb)
> - Blessed BoH (I had blown up the one from Sokoban)
> - Blessed Magic Marker
> - (zap, if nothing happens then goto 10) Cursed Magic Marker

Could have saved a wish here by reverse genociding gray dragons instead
of wishing for GDSM - has the advantage of giving you a possible
back-up set of armour. This also applies to the =oTC as you could have
reverse genocided tengus (see comment below re killing friendlies).


> I teleported up to do some writing, enchanting and such. I had
> few blank scrolls, and I had a "good" idea: reverse-genocide
> paper golems and get some paper... "No, mortal, that will not
> be done!". Sigh. I was given another chance, and I brought some
> tengu, trying to get intrinsic TC... but they were peaceful, and
> I don't like to anger my God. One scroll wasted (and some ink).

It's ok to anger your god if you're near an altar - just do some
sacrificing after killing the friendlies.


> - Can I get some "special" armor (water walking boots et al) by
> polymorphing normal items of armor?

Yes, but it's very unlikely so you need a big pile of armour to start
with - I usually use Ludios for this.


> - What is actually the point in blessing armor? Only to avoid it
> getting cursed? Or is there a bigger reason?

As far as I know it's because it then takes two "curse item" spells
from monsters to curse it. I don't know if there are other advantages.

Darth.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 5 Apr 2005 17:51:37 -0700,
Manuel wrote:

> (I may have double-posted this because of mistyping, sorry)
>
> My Valkyrie, Khia, has completed the Quest successfully,
> and after quite a bit of monster-bashing arrived to Medusa's
> level and killed Medusa with little effort (I didn't know
> what the level would be like, but Telepathy revealed Medusa
> and I put on a blindfold before approaching).
>
> After that, I went down to find a maze (and a very mazy one
> indeed), and I suppose this is the beginning of the Mazes of
> Menace (am I right?). I went down one level, then fell down
> a trapdoor. I must be then about dlvl 25 or so. I #invoke'd
> the Orb wanting to teleport upwards, but I reappeared at
> exatly dlvl 27 and read something like "You hear the tones of
> courtly conversation". A throne room, I thought. I put on my
> towel and gasp. Two blocks of soldiers + sergeants + captain,
> two liches, some trolls and giants, two xorns, two disenchan-
> ters, FOUR *adult* dragons (grey, silver, black, orange) and
> some sharks and giant eels.
>
> All of those spaced in a very particular way, so that it's
> clear it's a special level. Is that the Castle everyone talks
> about?
>
> These are my present stats:
> Khia the Warrior St:25 Dx:16 Co:18 In:10 Wi:11 Ch:11
> HP:219(219) Pw:3(3) AC:-6 Exp:15 Satiated
>
> I am wielding The Blessed +6 Mjollnir, and wearing the polished
> silver shield I found not long ago, GoP, oilskin cloak and some
> common armor items. I have polymorph and poly control, but not
> enough Pw to use the breath attack of a dragon.
>
> I am taking some precautions: I search often for traps, I am
> wearing the oilskin cloak to avoid giant eels... but I am sure
> I am forgetting something. There's nothing I can do now to get
> magic resistance (though I have the Orb, which helps a little
> bit), and I have many reasons to think I'll die soon.
>
> Please, don't spoil me further than what I ask explicitly:
> - Is this the Castle?

Yes, this is the Castle.

>
> - Does the "polished silver shield" help against dragon
> breath attacks?

Yes, it helps.

>
> - Is there a big danger I am helpless against?

There are eels around, some of them electric. If you are shock-proof and
have some way of surviving under water they may not be very dangerous.
There are some trapdoors in the castle which will drop you into hell,
but sooner or later you will have to drop through them anyway.

> - Is there something I *NEED* to know in order to avoid a sudden
> death in this level?

Yes. Don't stand where a drawbridge may fall upon your head and
instantly kill you.

> My only worry now is not to die an annoying death. I don't mind
> monsters killing me in a fair fight, but I really don't want to
> die because of a special kind of trap or something.

The eels will try to drown you, and if you manage to get the drawbridge
open, it *will* kill you if you are standing in its way.

S.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Benjamin Lewis" <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> wrote in message
news:yy7o64yzc08x.fsf@css.css.sfu.ca...
> Nick Hounsome wrote:
>
>> P.S. I have never lowered the drawbridge. Why would you?
>
> - because it's fun.
> - because the castle lobby contains some creatures you don't want to deal
> with via more conventional means.

How does lowering the drawbridge help?
Destroying it and using ranged attacks obviously helps.

> - because it's fun.
> - because you don't have a source of levitation/cold/jumping/water
> walking/convenient boulder/something else I missed.

Seems unlikely.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Nick Hounsome wrote:

> "Benjamin Lewis" <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> wrote:
>> Nick Hounsome wrote:
>>
>>> P.S. I have never lowered the drawbridge. Why would you?
>>
>> - because it's fun.
>> - because the castle lobby contains some creatures you don't want to
>> deal with via more conventional means.
>
> How does lowering the drawbridge help? Destroying it and using ranged
> attacks obviously helps.

The drawbridge/portcullis is an effective instakill weapon.

>> - because it's fun.
>> - because you don't have a source of levitation/cold/jumping/water
>> walking/convenient boulder/something else I missed.
>
> Seems unlikely.

It's uncommon, but it's happened to me more than once.

--
Benjamin Lewis

A small, but vocal, contingent even argues that tin is superior, but they
are held by most to be the lunatic fringe of Foil Deflector Beanie science.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Manuel" <manuel.matias@gmail.com> writes:

> The only time I was scared was when I fell through a trapdoor
> into the Valley of the Dead. Luckily enough, I appeared next
> to the stairs up and went back up immediately. Now, after some
> more playing I have forgotten where the stairs were, and I
> can't find them, so I'll fall again through a trapdoor when I
> want to come down.

This is a really strange quirk of the game: You can get
upstairs from the Valley, but there are no downstairs
from the castle. You're placed randomly in the right
hand maze if you're going upstairs. The trapdoors are
the only way to enter the Valley.

> I teleported up to do some writing, enchanting and such. I had
> few blank scrolls, and I had a "good" idea: reverse-genocide
> paper golems and get some paper... "No, mortal, that will not
> be done!". Sigh. I was given another chance, and I brought some
> tengu, trying to get intrinsic TC... but they were peaceful, and
> I don't like to anger my God.

Attacking peaceful monsters results in a -1 alignment penalty,
which is usually neglegible. I don't think you'll get any
trouble with your god (your alignment should be well beyond
50 by now, if you had benn a nice pious adventurer til now),
and besides, once in Gehennom you shouldn't pray anyway.

> - Can I get some "special" armor (water walking boots et al) by
> polymorphing normal items of armor?

Yes, but on a small chance only. It's usually more promising
to collect all elven boots/cloaks you stumble upon, since
they're considered magic.

> - What is actually the point in blessing armor? Only to avoid it
> getting cursed? Or is there a bigger reason?

Blessed armor is less likely to be damaged, but besides
that I don't know of further reasons.

Best,
Jakob

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Nick Hounsome" <nh002@nickhounsome.me.uk> writes:
> "Benjamin Lewis" <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> wrote in message
> > Nick Hounsome wrote:

> >> P.S. I have never lowered the drawbridge. Why would you?
> > - because the castle lobby contains some creatures you don't want to deal
> > with via more conventional means.

> How does lowering the drawbridge help?

You can use it as a guillotine. When a disenchanter or some L (or
something else you don't like) comes to the portcullis, raise the
drawbridge and it gets crushed. And the monster ON the drawbridge drowns,
unless it can swim.

--
Jukka Lahtinen

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jukka Lahtinen <jukkal@despammed.com> writes:

> And the monster ON the drawbridge drowns, unless it can swim.

Or fly?

Nick

--
# sigmask (lambda deprecation version) 20041028 || feed this to a python
print ''.join([chr(ord(x)-1) for x in 'Ojdl!Wbshjti!=ojdlAwbshjti/psh?'])

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

jorge estrada wrote:
> Manuel wrote:

>> Thanks, but I've decided not to read those. If lack of MR is only
>> a danger when facing Liches, I'll avoid them or kill them from a
>> distance. If there is more trouble related to lack of MR, please
>> do tell me.

> Liches are not the only critters that can instant kill or destroy your
> armor. There are things that are much worse and that you won't be
> able to run away from that easy. (although there is still ways to
> avoid them.)

Also, the higher level liches may teleport next to you.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jakob Creutzig wrote:

> By the time you get to the castle, you usually aren't in
> dire need of more experience. The drawbridge trick is
> a good means for weak characters who really need some
> wishes to boost their stats a bit. Further, one can
> conveniently take care of some more annoying monsters,
> like golden nagas.

But note that the drawbridge will not only destroy monsters, but also
all useful stuff they may be carrying.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jukka Lahtinen wrote:
> "Nick Hounsome" <nh002@nickhounsome.me.uk> writes:

>> How does lowering the drawbridge help?

> You can use it as a ***. [ explanation follows ]

Please... The original poster mentioned that he declined to read the
hints that Rast posted rot13ed (which included this one).

I think this means that he does not want to read them unrotted.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Manuel wrote:

> The only time I was scared was when I fell through a trapdoor
> into the Valley of the Dead. Luckily enough, I appeared next
> to the stairs up and went back up immediately.

That's not unlucky: that's what always happens...

> Now, after some more playing I have forgotten where the
> stairs were, and I can't find them, so I'll fall again
> through a trapdoor when I want to come down.

Don't blame yourself: the trapdoors are the *only* way down: the stairs
are one-way.

Note: search for the hidden meaning in the previous sentence.

> I was given another chance, and I brought some
> tengu, trying to get intrinsic TC... but they were peaceful, and
> I don't like to anger my God. One scroll wasted (and some ink).

They are peaceful because of your alignment, which is the same as
theirs. Don't worry too much about attacking them anyway, unless you're
roleplaying your character. Angering a peaceful creature only harms your
alignment a little bit, easily made up by killing some non-peacefuls.

> - Can I get some "special" armor (water walking boots et al) by
> polymorphing normal items of armor?

You can, but there's only a *very* small chance of changing a
non-magical armour item into a magical one.

> - What is actually the point in blessing armor? Only to avoid it
> getting cursed? Or is there a bigger reason?

The reason you mention is an important one, since you can still take it
off when it should get uncursed (unblessed in this case). Another reason
is that blessed armour is less likely to be affected by rust, corrosion,
fire, or rot.

> I'll be grateful for any comments about my mistakes (and about
> what I did right!) and what to learn from them.

You're welcome.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.

 

[James]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <d36g52$aab$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>,
Boudewijn Waijers <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote:

>But note that the drawbridge will not only destroy monsters, but also
>all useful stuff they may be carrying.

I didn't think it was destroying it, rather, dumping it in the moat.
You mean it's not all down there?

My last game, I pretty much killed every occupant of the castle with the
drawbridge. It's fun! (I really don't care about their inventory at
this point.)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> writes:
> Jukka Lahtinen wrote:
> > "Nick Hounsome" <nh002@nickhounsome.me.uk> writes:
>
> >> How does lowering the drawbridge help?
>
> > You can use it as a ***. [ explanation follows ]
>
> Please... The original poster mentioned that he declined to read the
> hints that Rast posted rot13ed (which included this one).

Well.. I thought "How" looked like a straightforward question, and
there was no visible request not to be spoiled in Nick's text or in
what he quoted.
Apologies for the OP.

--
Jukka Lahtinen