Question I'm confused about NGFF ?

[Mawla]

There's something about the term NGFF that's driving me crazy (I know the full form).

I know what SATA, M.2, NGFF, NVMe and PCIe mean separately. I know what M key, B key and B&M key slots are.
I know the distinction between slot/connector name, form factor name and interface/protocol name.
I also know that there are M.2 SATA and M.2 NVMe SSDs.

What confuses me is when vendors offer NGFF-compatible or dual NGFF/NVMe-compatible products without specifying the interface.

Wikipedia simply says (paraphrased) that NGFF is the old name for M.2. But when vendors say their product is compatible with both NGFF and NVMe, they seem to mean that the product can handle both SATA and PCIe devices (maybe mSATA too), but I've never seen anyone actually spell it out that way. All the search results I've read are equally vague about that.

To sum up: Is the term NGFF used exclusively for M.2 SATA? Thanks in advance.

 

[Lutfij]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.2

M.2, pronounced m dot two[1] and formerly known as the Next Generation Form Factor (NGFF), is a specification for internally mounted computer expansion cards and associated connectors.

So it used to be a blanket term for the the slot/form factor not the drive per se.

Support for the sort of drive you can populate on the slot will be specified in the motherboard's spec's page. Aliexpress listings tend to be hit or miss due to their BIOS. Some drive are compatible while some aren't. I stated Aliexpress since they tend to muddle up info. Brands like Asus and their ilk don't do that, last I ckecked.

 

[Mawla]

Thanks for the reply. Actually I was thinking about M.2 SSD-to-USB adapters, not motherboards.

Some models are clearly described as compatible only with SATA, some as NVMe only. Those that are specced to be compatible with both NGFF and NVMe never mention SATA, at least not the ones I looked at.

 

[fzabkar]

Those that are specced to be compatible with both NGFF and NVMe never mention SATA ...

I think it's the usual case of vendors mangling the terminology. If you can, try to identify the bridge IC.

 

[Mawla]

I don't think there's any way to ID the bridge chip. I'm pretty sure the sellers wouldn't know.
I asked one seller of an NGFF-only model if it supports M.2 SATA. The reply was "Yes, it supports M.2 SSD."

What I want to know is whether an M.2 SATA SSD will work with an NGFF + NVMe adapter.

 

[SkyNetRising]

What I want to know is whether an M.2 SATA SSD will work with an NGFF + NVMe adapter.

Think of NGFF as another word for M.2.
M.2 can support SATA, it can support NVME or it can support both.

Give us link to your adapter.
If specification says, it supports NGFF+NVME, that meants it supports NVME.
SATA support is not specified. May be it supports SATA, maybe doesn't. More likely - not.

 

[fzabkar]

I don't think there's any way to ID the bridge chip. I'm pretty sure the sellers wouldn't know.
I asked one seller of an NGFF-only model if it supports M.2 SATA. The reply was "Yes, it supports M.2 SSD."

What I want to know is whether an M.2 SATA SSD will work with an NGFF + NVMe adapter

A typical seller knows nothing beyond the price and how many he can move. In most cases the manufacturer can't answer the question, either.

 

[Mawla]

Think of NGFF as another word for M.2.
M.2 can support SATA, it can support NVME or it can support both.

I know. The problem is nobody actually specifies SATA for the dual protocol models.

Give us link to your adapter.
If specification says, it supports NGFF+NVME, that meants it supports NVME.
SATA support is not specified. May be it supports SATA, maybe doesn't. More likely - not.

Just got some enlightenment: I browsed Amazon.com (I'm from another country) and several sellers clearly say "for M.2 PCIe NVMe and SATA SSDs" or something similar for the same products. I don't know why they all substitute SATA with NGFF here. Maybe it's a regional thing, like pendrive/thumb drive/flash drive.
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=M.2+USB+adapter&crid=FG2J89RWHDTC&sprefix=m.2+usb+adapter,aps,429&ref=nb_sb_noss_1

 

[SkyNetRising]

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=M.2+USB+adapter&crid=FG2J89RWHDTC&sprefix=m.2+usb+adapter,aps,429&ref=nb_sb_noss_1

That doesn't give a precise link.
It's search with multiple results.

Give precise link to product in question.

 

[Mawla]

I haven't singled out any one model to purchase. The search result shows several products that specify both SATA and NVMe in the search list. They are mostly the same ones offered here. Here's one at random:

Amazon.com

 

[SkyNetRising]

Here's one at random:

It says right there

M.2 form factor compatible with both SATA and NVME in sizes: 2230/2242/2260/2280.

So - both sata and nvme are supported.

 

[Mawla]

I don't want to be rude but It seems you keep responding without paying close attention to what's being said.

I said that sellers in my country (not the US) keep using the term NGFF when it seems that they mean SATA, but I wanted to be sure. That last link was to the US Amazon site where the unambiguous acronym SATA is used, and that cleared up the mystery since most of the (Chinese) products are apparently the same as in my country.

 

[SkyNetRising]

I don't want to be rude but It seems you keep responding without paying close attention to what's being said.
I said that sellers in my country (not the US) keep using the term NGFF when it seems that they mean SATA, but I wanted to be sure.

I asked you to show link to product, you're confused about.

NGFF (next generation form factor) - means M.2.
If it says, it supports sata, then it supports sata.
If no sata support is mentioned, then assume, it doesn't support sata.
Simple as that.

 

[DRagor]

OP. with all respect you are approaching the problem from wrong angle. First, you should never trust any information provided by seller. Instead go to manufacturer's site for a product you want and check its specification there. If the info is unclear reach to manufacturer's support with a simple but precise question "Does your product (product name) supports/works with (drive name)?". Repeat for all products you are considering. Yes, it is time consuming, but it is the only way you can get precise and true answer.

 

[Mawla]

I asked you to show link to product, you're confused about.

I think I made it abundantly clear in my opening post that it's not about a specific product. In fact the question was about current usage of the term NGFF, not about a particular product

NGFF (next generation form factor) - means M.2.

Again, I made it clear at the beginning that I knew those things.

If it says, it supports sata, then it supports sata.

That goes without saying, but that's not the issue here.

If no sata support is mentioned, then assume, it doesn't support sata.
Simple as that.

I beg to differ. I've worked in a field of advanced technology for a long time and have learned that it's not wise to assume something when there's some indication that the opposite might be true. Which is why I usually keep digging until the truth comes out one way or the other.

In this particular case, the "some indication" was that SATA is never mentioned in the descriptions although it's a very common interface. And M.2/NGFF is common for SATA SSDs. So, while NVMe is mentioned everywhere but SATA isn't, there's a strong possibility that some people use NGFF for SATA. And that turned out to be the case.

 

[Mawla]

OP. with all respect you are approaching the problem from wrong angle. First, you should never trust any information provided by seller. Instead go to manufacturer's site for a product you want and check its specification there. If the info is unclear reach to manufacturer's support with a simple but precise question "Does your product (product name) supports/works with (drive name)?". Repeat for all products you are considering. Yes, it is time consuming, but it is the only way you can get precise and true answer.

Thanks for your input. That's what I normally do when it's a feasible option. But these are cheap Chinese products and long experience tells me that it's almost certainly a blind alley.

 

[DRagor]

Thanks for your input. That's what I normally do when it's a feasible option. But these are cheap Chinese products and long experience tells me that it's almost certainly a blind alley.

Good reason to not trust those cheap products then.

 

[SkyNetRising]

I beg to differ. I've worked in a field of advanced technology for a long time and have learned that it's not wise to assume something when there's some indication that the opposite might be true.

Well - if sata support is not mentioned, then you really don't have a choice.
You have to choose your assumptions - either sata is supported or it is not supported.

Since sata support is not mentioned, it would make more sense to assume, sata is not supported.

 

[Mawla]

Good reason to not trust those cheap products then.

Good point. But sometimes there's no reasonable alternative.
In cases like this, I make up my mind beforehand not to be devastated if a $20 product turns out to be underwhelming.
OTOH, I've had some cheap Chinese products give me years of good service.

 

[Mawla]

Well - if sata support is not mentioned, then you really don't have a choice.

I do/did have a choice. I chose to ask here and to keep searching.

You have to choose your assumptions - either sata is supported or it is not supported.

No, I didn't have to choose an assumption. I kept digging and eventually came up with the answer.

Since sata support is not mentioned, it would make more sense to assume, sata is not supported.

See above.

 

[SkyNetRising]

I do/did have a choice. I chose to ask here and to keep searching.
No, I didn't have to choose an assumption. I kept digging and eventually came up with the answer.

I don't know, how to make you understand it.

Imagine - you're buying a car.
Seller doesn't say model of the car.
He doesn't say, if the car runs on diesel or gas. Or may be it's electric.

You can assume, it runs on one of those.
But you can't know, which one.

Same here with USB M.2 adapter.
If seller doesn't specify sata support, then you don't know, if sata is supported or not.

Anyway - usually there should be some additional information.
Like M-key drives supported - this means NVME support,
M+B-key drives supported - this means SATA support.
B-key drives supported - this means PCIE x2/AHCI support.

 

[kerberos_20]

I think I made it abundantly clear in my opening post that it's not about a specific product. In fact the question was about current usage of the term NGFF, not about a particular product


Again, I made it clear at the beginning that I knew those things.

That goes without saying, but that's not the issue here.

I beg to differ. I've worked in a field of advanced technology for a long time and have learned that it's not wise to assume something when there's some indication that the opposite might be true. Which is why I usually keep digging until the truth comes out one way or the other.

In this particular case, the "some indication" was that SATA is never mentioned in the descriptions although it's a very common interface. And M.2/NGFF is common for SATA SSDs. So, while NVMe is mentioned everywhere but SATA isn't, there's a strong possibility that some people use NGFF for SATA. And that turned out to be the case.

i did quick look on M2 adapters from your amazon link, you are right about not mentioning SATA....but they all mention which M2 type is supported by keying,
they all say "supported" B or M or B+M keys, that already tells if it supports sata or not as SSD makers tend to use only B+M keys for sata drives and M for x4 nvme, x2 nvme or old B sata are outdated and shouldnt be on market anymore

some product might have some conflicting product info like this one:
https://www.amazon.com/FOESUNIT-Nvme-SSD-Enclosure-Aluminum/dp/B0B9312Y8K

【COMPATIBLE WITH M.2 NVME & SATA SSD】- This external nvme enclosure fit for M.2 NVMe PCIe M-Key & B+M Key SSD, M2 SATA NGFF B+M Key SSD. Applicable to form factor 2242/2260/2280 solid state drives. Does not support M.2 NVMe & SATA B-KEY SSDs.

compatible with m2nvme (m key), but its not m2 nvme compatible...lost in translation lol as they probably mean m2 nvme x2 (old one with only B key)

well just post some product youre confused about and we could tell what it supports

 

[Mawla]

I don't know, how to make you understand it.

And I don't know how to make you understand my approach.
Anyway, as I said before, I managed to derive the information I was looking for without making any assumption.
So let's call it a day, huh?