Question I'm confused about some aspects of Macrium Reflect backup software ?

[TheFlyingCelt]

Hi everyone.

I'm giving Macrium Reflect backup software a try but I'm confused about some aspects. I read here and there, watched tutorials, but no one really explains some important details.

Question 1: by ticking the box "if possible create a full synthetic backup" I think I understand that the software will merge the incremental backups into the previous full backup created after a specified number of backups, days or weeks. What I wonder is: once it merges the incrementals into the full backup, will I be able to restore the system to the date when one of those incremental backups was created?
Example:
Monday I create a full backup.
Tuesday I create an incremental backup.
Wednesday I create another incremental backup.
Thursday the software will consolidate into a synthetic backup all the incrementals into the full backup created on the 20th.
Friday I wish to restore my system to the state and time it was when I created an incrementla back back on Tuesday. Is that possible?

Question 2: Retention: when setting "retain 1 full backup", what does that do exactly if I were to create 1 full backup every month? Would it delete the old full backups and retain only the most recent like I guess?

Question 3: how does "incremental forever" work exactly when combined with "create a synthetic backup"? I mean, "incremental forever" plan sounds like it will create 1 full backup and subsequently only incremental backups, but...what happens when I thick the box "create a synthtic backup if possible" with the "incremental forever" backup plan?

Thanks to anyone who will take the time to help me out.

Massimo

 

[jeremyj_83]

Hi everyone.

I'm giving Macrium Reflect backup software a try but I'm confused about some aspects. I read here and there, watched tutorials, but no one really explains some important details.

Question 1: by ticking the box "if possible create a full synthetic backup" I think I understand that the software will merge the incremental backups into the previous full backup created after a specified number of backups, days or weeks. What I wonder is: once it merges the incrementals into the full backup, will I be able to restore the system to the date when one of those incremental backups was created?
Example:
Monday I create a full backup.
Tuesday I create an incremental backup.
Wednesday I create another incremental backup.
Thursday the software will consolidate into a synthetic backup all the incrementals into the full backup created on the 20th.
Friday I wish to restore my system to the state and time it was when I created an incrementla back back on Tuesday. Is that possible?

Question 2: Retention: when setting "retain 1 full backup", what does that do exactly if I were to create 1 full backup every month? Would it delete the old full backups and retain only the most recent like I guess?

Question 3: how does "incremental forever" work exactly when combined with "create a synthetic backup"? I mean, "incremental forever" plan sounds like it will create 1 full backup and subsequently only incremental backups, but...what happens when I thick the box "create a synthtic backup if possible" with the "incremental forever" backup plan?

Thanks to anyone who will take the time to help me out.

Massimo

For question 1 I recommend going to Macrium's KB:
https://knowledgebase.macrium.com/display/KNOW80/Scheduling+backups

Retention and consolidation - Knowledgebase 8.0 - Macrium Reflect Knowledgebase

knowledgebase.macrium.com

Question 2: Retain 1 full backup means exactly that. You will basically have 1 week worth of backups. Say you are set to have full backups on Monday and incremental backups on the other days. Every Monday then the system will take a full backup and after that is done it will erase the older backups. If you want to have 2 weeks worth you would say you want 2 full backups and 14 restore points. That way it wouldn't be until the end of the 3rd week that the oldest backups are removed. An example of this is in my data center we have it setup with 2 full (weekly full is what Veeam calls this) and 14 restore points. A system has the weekly fulls on Monday and right now there are 17 restore points because it has the 2 full weeks of backups PLUS the backups so far from this week. In essence you will have 3 weeks worth of restore points.

Question 3: You are correct. The system will take a single full backup and then just go incremental after that. The synthetic full will be rolling things together for a "full backup" so the full restore point is closer to your current date.

 

[USAFRet]

What I wonder is: once it merges the incrementals into the full backup, will I be able to restore the system to the date when one of those incremental backups was created?

I believe so, but have not tested it.
I use the synthetic option, but have never tried recovering an Incremental 'in between'.

Question 2: Retention: when setting "retain 1 full backup", what does that do exactly if I were to create 1 full backup every month? Would it delete the old full backups and retain only the most recent like I guess?

Correct.

Question3: how does "incremental forever" work exactly when combined with "create a synthetic backup"? I mean, "incremental forever" plan sounds like it will create 1 full backup and subsequently only incremental backups,

Correct.
But, how long do you really need to retain the Incrementals?

 

[TheFlyingCelt]

@jeremyj_83 I have read the links your kindly provided to me but..wow, I guess my mind is not made for these kind of things. It's so confusing to me.

To @jeremyj_83 and @USAFRet :
All I know for sure is that I need to keep the first full backup forever, and that should never get deleted. After that, I sometimes need to save backups with changes that occured since the first full backup (incrementals? differentials?) which will allow me to go back to the specific point in time when it was created.
How should I set it, please? And also, what should I not turn on or off on that settings page to achieve that?

So, if I leave the box "full backup" unticked, it will not retain the very first full backup? How can I do to make sure the first full will never be deleted instead? Would it be enough to thick "full backup (1)" and unthick "synthetic backup"?

@jeremyj_83 I wrote: "What I wonder is: once it merges the incrementals into the full backup, will I be able to restore the system to the date when one of those incremental backups was created?". Would you be so kind to tell me yes or no on this? I promise I'll study after that but I now need to know that or I can't start a backup.

Thnks to you both!

 

[USAFRet]

All I know for sure is that I need to keep the first full backup forever, and that should never get deleted. After that, I sometimes need to save backups with changes that occured since the first full backup (incrementals? differentials?) which will allow me to go back to the specific point in time when it was created.
How should I set it, please? And also, what should I not turn on or off on that settings page to achieve that?

Well, you DO want to refresh that Full Image once in a while.
A 2 year old Full is sort of counterproductive.

Incremental vs Differential.
Incremental is only the differences since the last Incremental. For a recovery, you need the original Full, and all of the intervening Incrementals. Lose one, and your backup will fail.
Incrementals are very small, and are a fast backup.

Differential is all of the differences since the last Full.
You only need the Full Image and the single Differential.
But, as time goes on, the Differentials get progressively larger and larger. Think of ALL the differences that will happen in 6 months. That is the size of a Diff and 6 month old Full.

 

[USAFRet]

If you do the Forever, then that is all you need. As said, I'm not sure if you can go back to...an Incremental from last week and recover the drive in that state.

 

[TheFlyingCelt]

You only need the Full Image and the single Differential.

Would I be able to restore to a specific point in time just like I would if I were to create many incrementals this way?

 

[USAFRet]

Would I be able to restore to a specific point in time just like I would if I were to create many incrementals this way?

If you have a series of Differentials, yes.

You can recover to whatever day the Diff was created.

 

[TheFlyingCelt]

If you have a series of Differentials, yes.

You can recover to whatever day the Diff was created.

and the first full backup would always remain untouched? I don't want anything to consolidate (synthetic backup?) with the first full.

In a few words: I need first full to never be deleted, changed, merged, altered in any way. But I also wish to have the chance to be able to restore the system "number" days back in case something is not working right with my system.
How can I achieve that? What settings should I set on that planning/retention/purge/merge/synthetic page? Jeez guys, I might be better at something else, but this thing is driving me nuts!

 

[jeremyj_83]

@jeremyj_83 I have read the links your kindly provided to me but..wow, I guess my mind is not made for these kind of things. It's so confusing to me.

To @jeremyj_83 and @USAFRet :
All I know for sure is that I need to keep the first full backup forever, and that should never get deleted. After that, I sometimes need to save backups with changes that occured since the first full backup (incrementals? differentials?) which will allow me to go back to the specific point in time when it was created.
How should I set it, please? And also, what should I not turn on or off on that settings page to achieve that?

So, if I leave the box "full backup" unticked, it will not retain the very first full backup? How can I do to make sure the first full will never be deleted instead? Would it be enough to thick "full backup (1)" and unthick "synthetic backup"?

Thnks to you both!

If you need to take a first full backup that will never be removed then I would do an initial backup and store that on something like an external hard drive. That way you will know that you have that backup and it cannot change. Alternatively you could use Macrium to create a disk image of your system right now that is bootable and stored on an external drive. Then on the system you can do the Forever Incremental with Synthetic Full and set your retention period to 14 or 21 days. That will give you multiple weeks of backups that you can restore to from that retention period. I don't think the system will retain the original backup once the retention period is up doing Forever Incremental. It will just move everything into the Synthetic Full if that is checked. Generally it isn't best practice to use a single full backup and then just doing differential and incremental backups. If something gets mucked up severely you will a full backup closer to the smaller backups. Industry best practice is weekly full backups and incremental or differential backups in between.

@jeremyj_83 I wrote: "What I wonder is: once it merges the incrementals into the full backup, will I be able to restore the system to the date when one of those incremental backups was created?". Would you be so kind to tell me yes or no on this? I promise I'll study after that but I now need to know that or I can't start a backup.

I assume that in those synthetic full backups that you can choose a point in time during that, however, the synthetic backups will grow quite large overtime if it allows you to go back to the initial creation date. My best guess is it will allow for all the incremental backups from that week.

 

[USAFRet]

and the first full backup would always remain untouched? I don't want anything to consolidate (synthetic backup?) with the first full.

In a few words: I need first full to never be deleted, changed, merged, altered in any way. But I also wish to have the chance to be able to restore the system "number" days back in case something is not working right with my system.
How can I achieve that? What settings should I set on that planning/retention/purge/merge/synthetic page? Jeez guys, I might be better at something else, but this thing is driving me nuts!

Correct.

For all of my systems, I create a Day 1 and Day 2 Full drive image.
Day 1 is just the bare OS + drivers
Day 2 adds my basic load of applications.

I've never ever needed to use either of those.

After that, a regular series of Full + Incremental.
I HAVE had to recover a couple of times.



For your question...just create a Full Image, and save it somewhere else.
Then, you can create another Full and start your series of Diff/Inc to go with that Full.

 

[jeremyj_83]

and the first full backup would always remain untouched? I don't want anything to consolidate (synthetic backup?) with the first full.

In a few words: I need first full to never be deleted, changed, merged, altered in any way. But I also wish to have the chance to be able to restore the system "number" days back in case something is not working right with my system.
How can I achieve that? What settings should I set on that planning/retention/purge/merge/synthetic page? Jeez guys, I might be better at something else, but this thing is driving me nuts!

To do this create either an initial disk image or full backup and store that on a separate external HDD. Then create a full backup that will be overwritten with a normal backup schedule. You can easily look at keeping 3 or 4 weeks of backups so that you have that long to go back in time. You would do weekly full backups and incremental backups every day.

 

[TheFlyingCelt]

@jeremyj_83 and @USAFRet
It's a very good idea to create a full backup and keep it somewhere else safe, perhaps upload it on my IDrive cloud storage. I'll surely do that for a start. Something so obvious to do, but I hadn't thought of that That proves how stupid I am on this matter...

Now, with all those options, I'm still quite confused whether to use incrementals, differentials, synthetic, how many of this and that, etc. Basically how to set up that hell of a "Plan for the backup" page.

@jeremyj_83 isn't a full backup a week too much? I mean, that's gonna take a lot of storage. I'd be much happier if I could keep 1 full and proceed with either incrementals or differentials, as long as one of them will give me the chance to choose a point in time and be able to restore to that date, but I'm not sure which of the two will give me that chance.

If I check the box "full" and set "2" the first will be overwritten when I create the 3rd one, right?
Also, this differential and incremental thing is confusing me a lot. I mean, I know the difference, but I don't know which best fits my needs.

Then on the system you can do the Forever Incremental with Synthetic Full

But we're not sure if that will allow me to restore to a specific day, right? Also, Synthetic basically deletes the oldest Incremental backups and I'm not sure that's what I want/need.

you could use Macrium to create a disk image of your system right now that is bootable and stored on an external drive.

What do you mean with "bootable"? Wouldn't be enough a rescue USB pen drive created in Macrium to restore the image?

After that, a regular series of Full + Incremental.

What's the advantages in having more than a single full backup and then incrementals only?

I assume that in those synthetic full backups that you can choose a point in time during that, however, the synthetic backups will grow quite large overtime if it allows you to go back to the initial creation date. My best guess is it will allow for all the incremental backups from that week.

But we're not sure of that, right?

Sorry I'm not sure what you meant with your last sentence (I'm Italian, and likely a dumb one lol)

 

[USAFRet]

What's the advantages in having more than a single full backup and then incrementals only?

The Day 1 and Day 2 I refer to is only in the context of building up a NEW system.
Those are only Full, no Inc/Diff attached.

If something goes weird in the next few days, I can recover to its original state.
They are not much good 6 months, or 2 years from then.


Which type of ongoing Images, Inc or Diff?
That is all up to YOU and YOUR needs and drive space.

My main system has 6x physical drives. Each gets an Incremental every night.
Keep for a rolling 30 days, deleting the eldest as it goes.

But I have a LOT of available space in my NAS. Not 'unlimited', but close enough. I could devote 20-30-40TB to this if I choose.

My spouses system gets a Full Image every other day. Her system does not use a lot of space.
My HTPC gets a Full Image once a week.

How often and what type all depends on you and your needs.

 

[jeremyj_83]

@jeremyj_83 isn't a full backup a week too much? I mean, that's gonna take a lot of storage. I'd be much happier if I could keep 1 full and proceed with either incrementals or differentials, as long as one of them will give me the chance to choose a point in time and be able to restore to that date, but I'm not sure which of the two will give me that chance.

All depends on how big the system is and what you are backing up. We have a production DB in our environment that takes up 2TB of space. The full backup is about 1.25TB and done weekly (about 50% the size of the VM). The incremental backups run daily and equate to about 5GB/day. Therefore in a 2 week retention policy (comes out to almost 3 total weeks of backups) that VM will use about 4TB of NAS space. Again weekly full backups is standard policy. One reason is if your only full backup is corrupt for some reason then your entire other backups are useless. Therefore you lessen your risk by doing full backups weekly.

If I check the box "full" and set "2" the first will be overwritten when I create the 3rd one, right?
Also, this differential and incremental thing is confusing me a lot. I mean, I know the difference, but I don't know which best fits my needs.

Not exactly. If you are using a weekly full and daily incremental setup and you want to keep 2 weeks worth of restore points the system won't delete the 1st weeks full and incremental until there are 3 full weeks worth of backups. That means you do a full backup on 6/1 and 6/2 - 6/7 are incremental. 6/8 is a full and 6/9 - 6/14 are incremental. Now we have 2 full weeks of restores BUT that 1st week cannot be removed because that would break the number of restore points you selected. Therefore 6/15 is a full and 6/16 - 6/21 are incremental. Only after the backup on 6/21 is finished are the backups from 6/1 - 6/7 deleted.

AWS has a very good page on explaining the differences in backup types. https://aws.amazon.com/compare/the-difference-between-incremental-differential-and-other-backups/

 

[TheFlyingCelt]

Mine is just a home PC, and I only need to keep the disk C: with OS and softwares efficient and fully working as I work from home, and Windows sucks lately.
As for the other disks like SSDs and Nvme where I store data, those are not an issue as they are daily backed up onto a remote storage cloud service.
I just wish to make sure to keep disk C: efficient and ready for disaster recovery as I work on this computer.
Also, I'm always curious to learn new things, and this is the time for learning more about backups.
You may suggest to use a simpler software as there are some out there, and it would be easier that way, but it's a matter of principle, I want to learn this (complicated to me) one. You know, learning is always good!
Anyway, perhaps I should just create a full backup to keep away from being touched, and then create a copy of that with sebsequent "incremental forever"...
Still...my mind enquires for more knowledge.
Having that said, I think I understood everything you guys kindly explained to me. Trouble is I still can't decide what is best for my needs.

 

[USAFRet]

Mine is just a home PC, and I only need to keep the disk C: with OS and softwares efficient and fully working as I work from home, and Windows sucks lately.
As for the other disks like SSDs and Nvme where I store data, those are not an issue as they are daily backed up onto a remote storage cloud service.
I just wish to make sure to keep disk C: efficient and ready for disaster recovery as I work on this computer.
Also, I'm always curious to learn new things, and this is the time for learning more about backups.
You may suggest to use a simpler software as there are some out there, and it would be easier that way, but it's a matter of principle, I want to learn this (complicated to me) one. You know, learning is always good!
Anyway, perhaps I should just create a full backup to keep away from being touched, and then create a copy of that with sebsequent "incremental forever"...
Still...my mind enquires for more knowledge.
Having that said, I think I understood everything you guys kindly explained to me. Trouble is I still can't decide what is best for my needs.

Once you get Macrium set up, it IS easy.
All hands off.

And whatever schedule you set up today does not have to be the total permanency.
You can change things at any time.

 

[TheFlyingCelt]

And whatever schedule you set up today does not have to be the total permanency.
You can change things at any time.

that's encouraging. Thanks for your help, and thanks to @jeremyj_83 as well!
If I have other questions I won't miss to bother you again, guys 🙏
Very much appreciated

 

[USAFRet]

that's encouraging. Thanks for your help, and thanks to @jeremyj_83 as well!
If I have other questions I won't miss to bother you again, guys 🙏
Very much appreciated

My current schedules are very different than what I set up originally, almost a decade ago.

 

[TheFlyingCelt]

My current schedules are very different than what I set up originally, almost a decade ago.

Still using the free version?

 

[USAFRet]

Still using the free version?

On my main system, I use the paid version.
All the others, free. They were all stood up before it became Paid Only. The free continues to work just fine.
I just finished doing a Full image of one of my little used laptops. Will do another one tomorrow.

But, this is one of those applications where I would (and will) pay for it on upcoming systems.
Some things are actually worth the $$$.

 

[TheFlyingCelt]

I didn't know that free licenses still worked for those who applied back then.

Have you tested other backup softwares? If so, what made you choose Macrium?
Sorry for the OT

 

[USAFRet]

I didn't know that free licenses still worked for those who applied back then.

Have you tested other backup softwares? If so, what made you choose Macrium?
Sorry for the OT

They mostly all do about the same.

About the time Macrium went to fully paid, I investigated all the features of the limited Free trial and Paid versions of some of the similar ones.
The trials were all limited, varying only slightly differently.
The Paid ones all seemed to do about the same.

I'm very comfortable with Macrium, and saw no need to move to something else.

 

[jeremyj_83]

I didn't know that free licenses still worked for those who applied back then.

Have you tested other backup softwares? If so, what made you choose Macrium?
Sorry for the OT

At work we use Veeam which is a heavy weight in backup software. They have a free Windows version that you can use for your home and it is quite good. I use that for backups at home.

 

[TheFlyingCelt]

Have you guys ever tried Iperius Backup software?