Question I'm dumb...recommend a motherboard replacement?

PewterScreaminMach

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Let's get the dumb part out of the way. I was having an issue with my computer shutting down, so I opened it up to check connections. Saw a few PWR-related cables that looked like possible culprits, but I couldn't get them plugged back in properly with the 1080 Ti in the way. I've removed it a bunch of times before but was having trouble with the release latch for the card, so as I pressed and pulled, it literally pulled the PCIE socket right off of the motherboard. Many of the pins are bent and, while it appears to be something that "plugs in", actually doing so doesn't look possible with the dozens of bent pins.

Everything still works with the video cable hooked up directly to the motherboard, but I need to be able to use my 1080 for work-related video editing, along with occasional gaming, so I'll need to replace the motherboard sooner than later.

While I'd love to replace the CPU while I'm at it to a 10850K or similar, I don't have the funds right now, so hoping to keep it to $150 or under shipped for just the mobo. $100 or so would be even better. Other build specs below.

Current mobo: ASRock Z370M Pro4
Must be micro ATX for my case (Fractal Design Define Mini C Silent)
8700k
1080 Ti
4x8GB DDR4 2666
Dark Rock Pro 3 CPU cooler
RM650i PSU

Ironic side note: I fixed the shutting down issue, and it was the wires I suspected.
 
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PewterScreaminMach

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That motherboard has 2 pcie slots. what prevents you from using the other one?
I sort of tried it. It puts the fans directly against the bottom of the case compartment (maybe a sliver of space), sort of sets onto a bunch of plugs going into the motherboard (hard to tell if they're making full contact but appear to be pressing lightly on them), and also makes the wiring a bit difficult for the power plugs to the video card. But I suppose it's possible.

That said, a mobo replacement is $150 or less. Overheating and frying the 1080 Ti and having to replace it will cost many times that if it happens because of bad positioning, so it didn't seem like the smart choice.
 

PewterScreaminMach

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And follow-up question: should I suspect any issues when swapping the CPU from one motherboard to the next? I installed it when I originally put the computer together a few years ago and haven't needed to touch it since.

The reason this whole issue started is because I added two sticks of memory a while back and to do so I had to pull the motherboard out. CPU cooler blocks the memory slots and you have to access both sides of the mobo to remove the cooler, so the whole thing had to come out. When I put it back together, I must have put that one power plug shifted one over on the wrong pin, so the computer wouldn't fully shut down.
 

Karadjgne

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If you go with the exact same board, you won't have to reinstall windows.

If you go with a different board, it's best to reinstall windows because the bios will be different, the setup different, cmos, registry, addressing, chipsets, chipset drivers etc will all be different. It can be a mess.

You are at a crossroads. If you keep the 8700k, and pair it on a B360 mobo, you aren't going to get anything out of it past stock settings, and certainly cannot upgrade later without replacing the motherboard again, for a decent loss, not many are going to buy a used B360 at anything close to its retail price, not when a newer Z590 can be had for the same price and an 11400/F is less than $200.

So do you waste money holding onto old stuff, or invest money into new stuff. The 8700k is still valuable, you'll get a decent amount from sale there, which can offset the upgrade and still put you 1 step closer to that 10850k.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-11400 2.6 GHz 6-Core Processor ($188.99 @ B&H)
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z590I AORUS ULTRA Mini ITX LGA1200 Motherboard ($289.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $478.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-04-30 17:12 EDT-0400


Simple cpu swap later. And the 11400 will sell. On ebay, ppl are asking $150-$180 for an 8700k, putting your expense at @ $300 for a 10850k ready pc.

Sticking with the 8700k, you'll spend $150 for the mobo, recover maybe $50 of that, then add $300 for a new motherboard to handle a 10850k, then another $380 for the cpu.

Total final upgrade if starting now is @ $580. Upgrading later final total is closer to $800.

Its a lot of money, question being which direction serves you better overall.

The MSI arsenal mortar isn't bad at all, it's just very much a dead-end band-aid fix.
 

jeremy0118

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I personally don't think it's worth spending $ 290 on a Motherboard for a 11th gen i5 that has little room to upgrade in the future anyways. Agree it provides great value for money atm because i have the exact same CPU but it does more than fine on a B560, if you're out there spending that much it defeats the purpose of value for money and you may aswell switch to AMD
 
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jeremy0118

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The 6700k keeps a surprisingly good value , but i really wouldnt want to stick to a 1151 socket as it is already outdated and leaves 0 room to upgrade as u pretty much already have the fastest CPU for the socket. I feel sorry for your 1080 Ti actually.

If you're going to buy a new motherboard anyways you may aswell get a B560 Asus Prime
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813119385?Description=asus b560&cm_re=asus_b560--13-119-385--Product&quicklink=true
, then get a 11400F and resell ur 6700k for about the same money u paid for ur new 11400f. That CPU is about 65% faster in Quad-Core performance, and you can even upgrade it in a few years to an i7 10400 when the prices dropped even further. In my opinion a much smarter option then spending a whopping 150 bucks on an ancient 1151 socket motherboard.
 
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Karadjgne

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Op has an i7 8700k. It's not going to do so well on a budget B360, no overclocking, no locked cores etc.
It's a good board, just doesn't hold its value much.

Newegg shows it out of stock anyway, finding a new board might be trixy, they are low supply compared to the newer stuff.

But I agree that the Z590 are priced rediculous, almost like Intel gets a kick-back, after dropping cpu prices.
 

PewterScreaminMach

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Thanks for all of the input. Still weighing options. Really don't have the funds at the moment to upgrade CPU and motherboard together to something worthwhile over the 8700K, but my mentality has always been to go big if you're going to spend money at all so you get the extra years out of it. That's why this 8700K and 1080 Ti build has handled everything I've thrown at it even though it's 3 1/2 years old. Figured I'd have at least a few more before it really started to show its age with my type of use.

Just didn't expect something dumb like this to happen, but live and learn.

Currently trying to decide if I should just step up and go 10850K and new motherboard (I know I should, but money is a big factor right now since this wasn't planned). If you were going that route, which boards would you be considering? The 10850k is around $400, so I'd already be well more than double the cost of just replacing the motherboard, plus I'd have to buy a decent mobo on top of that. Getting pricey versus $150.
 

Karadjgne

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It's Intel, so unless you have a locked core cpu or have absolutely zero reason to use the unlocked capabilities of a K cpu, using a B or H motherboard is going to leave you dissatisfied.

B+H have some, if not most of the bells and whistles, but lack certain things like the ability to make use of faster ram, the ability to bump clock speeds, lock cores etc. You tie yourself to the cpu/motherboard restrictions.

It takes a great cpu like the 10850k and puts shackles on it. That's fine, if you are using high thread but lower veracity programs like Photoshop or Adobe Premiere on a sometime use case, but if it's a work thing where time is money and you can shave 15-20 minutes on a project, that gets important.

It might sound like I'm biased against band-aid fixes, and I suppose I am, but here's my reasoning. For most of her life, my wife wore the el-cheapo bras from Walmart. They did the job, mostly. But by dinnertime, there came headaches, backaches and generally she was miserable. No fun for me either with that dance. So for Mothers Day one year I took her shopping at a real bra store, went from $12 a bra to $80+. But now they fit right, better made, last her 3x as long, and no more headaches, no more backaches, she's no longer miserable and that makes my life after dinnertime much more enjoyable. It was an expense I couldn't really afford at the time (she got 4 of them lol) , but the benefits far outweigh the initial cost.

Band aids are fine, for a temporary fix, but when the temporary is just to extend the life by years, that's not temporary.
 

TommyTwoTone66

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If chipset and / or overclocking matters to you for some reason, then this:

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813145055

is pretty much the creme-de-la-creme of microATX motherboards that support your CPU... It doesn't look like much but the features are all there and it's Gigabyte, who make the best motherboards IMO.

But if you need a microatx board to fit in your case, it sounds like the space will be very limited, in which case maybe you want to use this chipset for underclocking not overclocking...
 

PewterScreaminMach

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I'm gonna throw some wrenches in the works here that will probably disappoint some/all of you, but they're honest realizations that help narrow down the decision.

1) Upon further consideration, I don't see myself overclocking this 8700K. I originally bought it and the Z370M so that I could, but when it came to real world use, I simply haven't run into any serious bottlenecks after 3 1/2 years of use. And after reviewing a ton of 8700K overclock benchmarks and videos, I'm not seeing the types of improvements that really make it worth the effort/risk.

2) I don't believe I'll be upgrading to a better processor and mobo yet. While this "bandaid" fix of a $100 or so motherboard replacement is $100 I could put toward the upgrade, I'd still likely end up spending $500 or so on a 10850K and quality motherboard after selling the 8700K. Figuring in section 1 above, this 8700K setup will likely be fine for my purposes for at least a few more years, and how much farther will that $500+ go at that point when I actually have a need to upgrade, which is always how I've purchased components and built systems?

As with the 8700K stock vs overclocked benchmarks I've reviewed, the ones I've seen for an 8700K vs 10900K for my purposes simply don't show such a major improvement that I feel it's worth it for the price when I probably shouldn't be spending that money right now. Also...

3) One thing not mentioned that should have been is that for 80% of my work use, I have a 10900K and 2060 Super setup at the office. I work much less often from home, so while that bump in performance for Premier Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom would be nice on the days I do, I'm not sure it would really be that noticeable for the next few years on the 20% of my work I do out of the office. To be honest, the real world difference I see in performance in Premiere Pro is minimal between the two setups for the video work I do. It would likely be more significant if I was doing a lot of 3D animation or something, but I don't require much of that.

As I said, this info might disappoint some of you ("what's the point of that setup you built if you're not going to overclock?"). But it ended up being my reality. A couple kids between when I built it and now will change your priorities lol.

But this leaves me with the following question, however sad it might be: if I'm not upgrading the 8700K or replacing other components besides the motherboard, and I'm not going to overclock, which board is my best option? I know I'm going to have to reinstall Windows, which sucks, but I'm not buying a used motherboard and they don't sell my board anymore. Oh well.
 

TommyTwoTone66

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So if you don't plan to overclock the best option is probably this:

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813119222

which I posted earlier. It represents the best price / performance point while getting the build quality from a top brand that will be reliable.

It's only $80. If you spend more than that you're only paying extra for overclocking support that you aren't going to use.
 
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Karadjgne

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Hah, OK. No disappointment. You actually have a work pc that does the job, the 8700k isn't much more than a laptop ppl take home to finish stuff up, do odd jobs etc as the need arises. That's a different story altogether than needing a pc for work. It's a side piece, not the main attraction.

Since that's the situation, the Asus board above is plenty, bonus being that it's in stock.

Photoshop and parts of Adobe rely on strong single thread performance, but other sections rely heavily on multithread performance and the 8700k is no slouch in either at stock levels, there are some gains to be had by OC, but just as many from faster ram or bigger ram amounts, but as you say, they are minor and most of that effort will be of greater value on the work pc.

Since you didn't OC or plan to or really use the 8700k to its fullest ability, that B365 isn't going to change anything.
 

PewterScreaminMach

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Thanks a lot for the feedback and understanding. As I was typing out that last message, I felt guilty realizing I hadn't presented all of the info. But a big part of that was just thinking and talking through it all, which was the reason I posted. A little back and forth with outside perspective plus researching the things you all posted can help shed light on a situation.

Final question, because I'm about to pull the trigger on this and just get it done. For my situation, what's the difference between these two, the B360M-A and B365M-A you posted?

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813119086?Item=N82E16813119086

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813119222?Item=N82E16813119222

The only reason I ask is because I see the USB 3.1 Gen 2 ports on the back panel of the B360, and those would be nice to have over the Gen 1's on the B365, although not necessary. Really just want clarity on one vs the other in terms of other performance (i.e. would the 1080 Ti or 8700K perform better on the B365)?
 

Karadjgne

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USB 3.2 versions
New nameOld nameOriginal nameSuperSpeed nameMax speed
USB 3.2 Gen 2x2N/AUSB 3.2SuperSpeed USB 20Gbps20Gbps
USB 3.2 Gen 2USB 3.1 Gen 2USB 3.1SuperSpeed USB 10Gbps10Gbps
USB 3.2 Gen 1USB 3.1 Gen 1USB 3.0SuperSpeed USB5Gbps

Lol. Having that same discussion in another post. It's confusing as all get-out.

Basically there were some unrecoverable issues with the B360 chipset, it has limitations lower than the design and hoped specs called for, so that chipset was modified from the ground up, and gave birth to the B365. But since it was a rush-job, the final result still wasn't all that great and in some ways not as good as the original B360.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13714/intel-adds-b365-chipset-to-lineup-the-return-of-22nm

Some of the AIB partners like ASRock had a really low budget B365, and it wasn't pretty. But as you can see from the table in the link, unless you go up in grade, you are going to miss out on some bells and whistles with the budget chipsets and extras don't/won't get supported on the really cheap boards.

The B365 chipsets biggest advantage over the B360 is its supported pcie3.0 lanes. It allows for seperate nvme possibilities without forcing a choice between using an m.2 port and killing 2x Sata ports etc.
 
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TommyTwoTone66

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1080Ti would perform identically well on B360 or B365. in terms of raw performance, memory bandwidth, CPU support etc, they are identical.

The main differences are faster USB3 (theoretical, nothing you can buy will use more than 5gbit anyway) on the 360, but on the 365 you gain the possibility for 2x NVMe drives rather than 1 x NVMe and 1 x M-SATA (if your board manufacturer even puts a second M.2 slot on the board that is), You lose onboard WiFi on the 365 but again, most manufacturers don't enable this option on mainstream boards anyway so it's no great shakes.

With the 365 being a slightly more recent chipset and being a “bug fix” chipset for the 360, you’ll get better and more speedy software and firmware updates on there, and presumably better system stability. That's the main reason I recommend it.
 
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PewterScreaminMach

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Thanks again, everyone. ASUS Prime B365M-A you recommended has been ordered. As much as it sucked having to spend the cash and not be able to get a direct replacement, it was informative. Now let's just hope the Windows install and setup process doesn't make me want to smash my monitor (I know it will).

Of course, now I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on one of those m.2 hard drives I've been craving but also shouldn't spend the money on... (currently just using a small 860 EVO for the OS and editing, plus two WD Black HDD's for games and storage).
 

TommyTwoTone66

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Of course, now I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on one of those m.2 hard drives I've been craving but also shouldn't spend the money on... (currently just using a small 860 EVO for the OS and editing, plus two WD Black HDD's for games and storage).
Well not to twist your arm but they've never been cheaper, and the right time to change your boot drive is when you have to reinstall your whole OS, which you have to do anyway since you'll be changing motherboards.

I was just looking at a 1TB Crucial NVMe drive, which performs at the same speed as like the fastest Samsung EVO drive from 2 years ago, around 2200mb/sec, for a little over $100.
 
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PewterScreaminMach

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Well not to twist your arm but they've never been cheaper, and the right time to change your boot drive is when you have to reinstall your whole OS, which you have to do anyway since you'll be changing motherboards.

I was just looking at a 1TB Crucial NVMe drive, which performs at the same speed as like the fastest Samsung EVO drive from 2 years ago, around 2200mb/sec, for a little over $100.
I know, I had a few different options in the $100 to $200 range in my sights before this whole motherboard thing happened. But it's still tempting, especially knowing about the Windows reinstall now required. My biggest issue is that in order to keep my OS, apps, games, and extra room for transfers and photo/video editing requirements, I'll need 2TB, and that's pushing me back out of budget, especially after the new mobo. It's always something...
 

TommyTwoTone66

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I know, I had a few different options in the $100 to $200 range in my sights before this whole motherboard thing happened. But it's still tempting, especially knowing about the Windows reinstall now required. My biggest issue is that in order to keep my OS, apps, games, and extra room for transfers and photo/video editing requirements, I'll need 2TB, and that's pushing me back out of budget, especially after the new mobo. It's always something...
i really think 1TB should be more than enough for all of that. It’s the sweet spot now for size/cost. Plus you have the second NVMe slot ready for a larger drive if your video editing suddenly becomes a profession
 

PewterScreaminMach

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i really think 1TB should be more than enough for all of that. It’s the sweet spot now for size/cost. Plus you have the second NVMe slot ready for a larger drive if your video editing suddenly becomes a profession
I have a 250GB 860 EVO that's mostly full (OS, apps, and just enough free space to work off of with Premiere Pro while keeping it out of the red, etc). I also have a 1 TB WD Black HDD for nothing except games that's completely full, which is why I want to move those onto an SSD. I could probably remove some of those that I play less often to save space, but it seems like every time I do that, those games end up being the ones I want to play, and then I have to redownload and reinstall.

So if I want it to be relatively stress free with a single primary drive for OS/games/other apps, the smart move is to wait until I can afford a 2TB version.

Oh, and I also have a 6TB WD Black for my main storage drive.
 

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