[SOLVED] I'm getting a bit frustrated with MB manufacturers...

[carlos.pinetree]

I would like to upgrade my rig to an AMD R5 3600X
CPU: done
Memory: done
MB: ????

Buying X570 does not make sense to me because I'm don't value PCI-E 4.0. On top of that, x570 boards are quite expensive.

I'm looking for x470, I think there are some pretty nice ones (sub $200) that are cheaper a better spec'd than x570 ones.

The issue: I cannot upgrade the bios without a Ryzen 1 or 2 series CPU.
I know that there are a few boards that support flashback but those are over my budget.
For instance: a MSI X470 Gaming Pro Carbon is a great one but doesn't have flashback.
I know, there's the loner option but I don't think I can get one where I live.

(Side note: Is quite weird that MSI has a lot B450 ones with flashback but only 1 x470: MSI X470 Gaming M7 AC ...)

 

[WildCard999]

A feature such as Flashback isn't something that is supposed to be guaranteed on any motherboard. The fact that MSI did that to help out there customers is actually pretty nice instead of people having to go to a retail store and pay someone else to do it or like you said go with a more expensive motherboard.

Does it have to be X470? The B450 boards can handle overclocking quite well and have enough features for most users. I think the bigger benefit of X470 over B450 is a couple more SATA ports, some have dual M.2 & SLI compatibility (which is pointless nowadays unless rendering).

 

[carlos.pinetree]

A feature such as Flashback isn't something that is supposed to be guaranteed on any motherboard. The fact that MSI did that to help out there customers is actually pretty nice instead of people having to go to a retail store and pay someone else to do it or like you said go with a more expensive motherboard.

Does it have to be X470? The B450 boards can handle overclocking quite well and have enough features for most users. I think the bigger benefit of X470 over B450 is a couple more SATA ports, some have dual M.2 & SLI compatibility (which is pointless nowadays unless rendering).

Is a good point but price difference is not that big and I think I will also loose PBO... TBH: I don't know if it has o big impact...

Thanks for the reply.

 

[WildCard999]

Is a good point but price difference is not that big and I think I will also loose PBO... TBH: I don't know if it has o big impact...

Thanks for the reply.

Pretty sure you can use PBO on B450 boards as this was a feature in the second gen Ryzen CPUs.

 

[carlos.pinetree]

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3491-explaining-precision-boost-overdrive-benchmarks-auto-oc

I was going through this article and PBO benefits are minimal... so maybe B450 is actually my choice.

 

[drea.drechsler]

Pretty sure you can use PBO on B450 boards as this was a feature in the second gen Ryzen CPUs.

PBO working just fine on my B450 mortar with 3700x, although it's not like the 2000 series CPU's at all.

Just as a note, I think the X570 boards, at least most of them, do have extremely strong VRMs with 10 all the way up to 16 phases. You might think this is overkill unless running the 3900x or 3950x, but I think it adds value even for the 8 and 6 core variants.

I think the high phase count VRM's will have much better transient response. That's got to be a major factor because Zen2 chips have such aggressive boost algorithms: frequently boosting from base clock speed to highest clock speed and then backing down to a sustaining clock (or processing load is retired) at up to 1ms intervals. That means super quick reaction for a VRM to go from low current, high voltage to high current, low voltage states with minimum overshoot and ringing.

Even though the VRM on my Mortar is capable of pretty good power delivery at heavy loads on my 3700x, while staying quite cool, the processor just never seems to hit it's max boost speeds (4.4Ghz) very often. So I'm wondering if it's simply because the VRM is a bit to slow to stabilize at a boost so the algorithm backs off quickly.

 

[WildCard999]

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3491-explaining-precision-boost-overdrive-benchmarks-auto-oc

I was going through this article and PBO benefits are minimal... so maybe B450 is actually my choice.

Setting up Ryzen for gaming is fairly easy. First is enabling AXMP in the BIOS so the memory runs at the correct speed then enabling PBO is just a couple of options in the BIOS then your all set. If you want to squeeze out every bit of performance though then manually overclocking the CPU is the way to go and if the motherboard supports faster memory then what's in it then you could manually overclock those as well.

 

[drea.drechsler]

Setting up Ryzen for gaming is fairly easy. First is enabling AXMP in the BIOS so the memory runs at the correct speed then enabling PBO is just a couple of options in the BIOS then your all set. If you want to squeeze out every bit of performance though then manually overclocking the CPU is the way to go and if the motherboard supports faster memory then what's in it then you could manually overclock those as well.

Having been working on trying do so on my 3700x, I don't agree with manual overclocking. I get minor improvements in MT benches but ST benches can flat out tank. To be at an even level with my best PBO'd ST benches leaves me wondering if the voltage stress needed is worth it. But, tweaking memory can easily prove the best way find hidden performance in your system:

Checkout what Steve at HWUnboxed has done even with a low-cost memory kit just by tweaking it up:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH3qq_mSxTM&t=6s


Zen2's IMC is way more than just 15% better, IMO!

 

[WildCard999]

AMD stated that they wanted the 3rd gen CPU's to perform about as good as there going to right out of the box, mores so with the X variants. Even bumping up my 2600 from 3.9 to 4.1 (couldn't really get 4.2) barely did much for gaming.

 

[JBHapgood]

Buying X570 does not make sense to me because I'm don't value PCI-E 4.0. On top of that, x570 boards are quite expensive.
....
The issue: I cannot upgrade the bios without a Ryzen 1 or 2 series CPU.
I know that there are a few boards that support flashback but those are over my budget.
For instance: a MSI X470 Gaming Pro Carbon is a great one but doesn't have flashback.
I know, there's the loner option but I don't think I can get one where I live.

I've also been going through the maddening process of trying to choose a motherboard for the Ryzen 3600. The B450 would seem my ideal choice, as I'm not a gamer and see no reason for overclocking. Unfortunately, the backward-compatibility AMD promised for the new CPUs has not been fully realized. I suspect the motherboard manufacturers will have the current problems sorted by the end of the year. But I can't wait that long.

MSI are the most consistent about providing BIOS flashback for B450 boards. But their boards seem to have the most risk of problems. Some people flash the BIOS (with the flashback or with an older CPU), stick the Ryzen 3000 in the socket, fire it up, and never have problems. Others have endless frustration getting the board to even POST. There doesn't seem to be any consistent pattern to whether a given user will have problems. That inconsistency, of course, surely complicates BIOS testing and development on MSI's side.

ASRock now ship their B450 boards with Ryzen 3000-compatible BIOS and a "Ryzen 3000 Ready" sticker on the box. Unfortunately, the only way to be sure of getting one of them is to visit a brick-and-mortar store and inspect the product before plunking down the credit card. That is often impossible, as many places don't have brick-and-mortar stores within a reasonable distance.

In my case, I found that the local Best Buy and Fry's stores won't flash the BIOS. I did find a local PC repair shop that could flash it, but it would cost $40. That would bring the total cost to at or near a low-end X570 board, which at least is designed around the 3000 and should go into the UEFI right out of the box. I am about to pull the trigger on a new build, and have plumped for the $170 MSI X570 MPG Gaming Plus as the best currently-available solution.

The MSI X570-A PRO costs $10 less. The two boards are identical, except the Gaming Plus has bigger VRM heat sinks and "gaming aesthetics." It would also be a good choice, but I think the better heat sinks are worth $10. The Gaming Plus is also available at the local Best Buy (along with the Ryzen 3600 and Corsair LPX 3200 RAM) for the same price as Amazon or Newegg. If there's a problem with any of these items, it's much easier to exchange them at a local store.

I agree that the few features the X570 offers are not worthwhile in themselves. PCIe 4 SSDs are very expensive; and if PCIe 4 video cards ever come out they will be expensive high-end units. There is potential value to having two M.2 SSD slots that don't disable SATA ports or slow down video bandwidth. But unless you're willing to wait until the motherboard manufacturers sort out the problems and ship B450 boards with stable BIOSes that will work out of the box with a 3000 CPU, the X570 currently seems to be the most likely way to to get a 3000 CPU up and running with a minimum of frustration.

That's just my opinion, but I hope it helps you in some way.