Question In need of advice regarding upgrades 3600x to 5800x3d or Am5?

[3jackdaw]

Hello and good day.

I'm spent a few days researching and contemplating about my next upgrade. My most recent upgrade was buying a 1440p monitor (before it was 1080p ultrawide 34'') and replacing my 1070 with a 3060ti. At the time, this was the only upgrade I really wanted and planned for. That total upgrade cost me about $800. for context this is my current rig now

Ryzen 3600x
3060ti
b450 mortar max
16GB XMP'd to 3200mhz CL16 Hyperx Fury
620 bronze+ Seasonic
G5 1440 32'' 165hz


After playing the games that I couldn't really enjoy playing because of low fps (Cities skyline,RDR2, Cyberpunk and the new Baldur's gate 3) I felt that it wasn't enough [AAA games 98% of the time] I had playable FPS with these games at low-mid settings/sometimes high but never at a stable solid 60fps.

So after the recent upgrade I thought to upgrade my CPU. Im fully aware that the best FPS boost I can get is to upgrade my GPU but as I mentioned I made mistake on this part since I didn't expect I would not be fully satisfied with 3060ti. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with the gains it gave but its just not enough for a stable 1440p 60ps at the settings I want.

I just ordered the following: (there is still time to cancel at this moment of writing)

Ryzen 5800x3d
x4 8GB G.Skill Trident 3200mhz CL16
Seasonic 750GM Gold+

I maxed out on the Ram since I know for a fact I'm staying on AM4 for a very long time and wanted faster ram as well. 32GB is would benefit me for work related reasons.
The power supply is for peace of mind.


The total of those will be around $560.


With that price I found out I could have upgrade to the AM5 platform. The question is would that be on par with the 5800x3d upgrade I made? Have I made a mistake? I could return them but the hassle is just immense. Given if I choose the AM5 path, I'd probably need to add another $100-150 bucks and go through reformatting/redownloading etc.

My main goal is to have the best FPS increase/value for money with my current situation. I do however plan for sure upgrading my 3060ti down the line.


Thank you so much.

 

[Lutfij]

x4 8GB G.Skill Trident 3200mhz CL16
If you can look for a 2x16GB DDR4-3600MHz dual channel ram kit with tight timings, which might be a little pricey but you'll see an uplift in your platform's performance.

If you're going with AM5, I'd look into the Ryzen 5 7600x at the very least. Though I'd look into a higher processor since this should be an actual upgrade not a jerry rigged build due to mistakes made along the way.

 

[3jackdaw]

x4 8GB G.Skill Trident 3200mhz CL16
If you can look for a 2x16GB DDR4-3600MHz dual channel ram kit with tight timings, which might be a little pricey but you'll see an uplift in your platform's performance.

If you're going with AM5, I'd look into the Ryzen 5 7600x at the very least. Though I'd look into a higher processor since this should be an actual upgrade not a jerry rigged build due to mistakes made along the way.

Agreed, Well at this point the seller has already shipped the item. I dont live in the US so I dont have the perks of Amazon's easy return process though its not impossible but its just very difficult. So, I'll go with the 5800x3d and you are totally right I want it to be an upgrade but looking at some stats and vids and asking around 5800x3d isn't that far off from 7600x. At this point I just hope I got some improvement with what I've spent. I did save around $200 staying on AM4. I'd save even more if I dont get a new PSU.

However, since I ordered the PSU separately I still have time to cancel that so save $150. Do you think I'll need it for the 5800x3d? (620w to 750w gold)

as for the ram, I dont think they sell it here at least online tighter timings than 3200 CL16 -- I'll just hope the XMP can overclock it to 3600.

 

[Misgar]

Moving over to AM5 requires more expenditure on a new motherboard. Unless you've got plenty of spare cash, stick with the current plan. You should get another year or two's use out of your AM4 rig, or you win the lottery.

A better PSU is a very good idea. Keep it. Stability and quality are crucial.

Don't be too disappointed if you cannot achieve a 3,600MT/s XMP overclock. Four DIMMs are often harder to overclock than two DIMMs, due to additional loading on the Integrated Memory Controllers. That's why Lutfij suggested 2 x 16GB instead of 4 x 8GB.

I hope you managed to buy a kit of 4 matched 8GB DIMMs and not two "identical" kits of 2 DIMMs. It's often a gamble as to whether or not separate kits will work together at maximum XMP, because the memory chips on the DIMMs may come from different "bins" or batches, so timings or chips may not be the same.

You can check the manufacturer's part number for the memory chips on your DIMMs using Thaiphoon Burner. Ideally, all chips should be the same.
http://softnology.biz/

Make sure you update the BIOS to the latest version before you install the new CPU. This is vital for the new 1.30V limit and optimized memory handling. Do NOT miss out this step if you want your X3D to survive optional PBO overclocking.

When you fit the four DIMMs, do not apply XMP until you have reinstalled Windows. You may get away with plonking the new CPU in the motherboard and keeping your existing Windows installation, but a clean install is a better idea.

After applying XMP, boot the computer from a USB memory stick with MemTest86+ and run several complete cycles of the test. Any faults and your XMP overclock is not stable. Reduce the overclock to 3,400MT/s or loosen the CL (CAS) timings manually, by one or two clock cycles at 3,600MT/s, i.e. CL17 or CL18.

 

[3jackdaw]

Moving over to AM5 requires more expenditure on a new motherboard. Unless you've got plenty of spare cash, stick with the current plan. You should get another year or two's use out of your AM4 rig, or you win the lottery.

A better PSU is a very good idea. Keep it. Stability and quality are crucial.

Don't be too disappointed if you cannot achieve a 3,600MT/s XMP overclock. Four DIMMs are often harder to overclock than two DIMMs, due to additional loading on the Integrated Memory Controllers. That's why Lutfij suggested 2 x 16GB instead of 4 x 8GB.

I hope you managed to buy a kit of 4 matched 8GB DIMMs and not two "identical" kits of 2 DIMMs. It's often a gamble as to whether or not separate kits will work together at maximum XMP, because the memory chips on the DIMMs may come from different "bins" or batches, so timings or chips may not be the same.

You can check the manufacturer's part number for the memory chips on your DIMMs using Thaiphoon Burner. Ideally, all chips should be the same.
http://softnology.biz/

Make sure you update the BIOS to the latest version before you install the new CPU. This is vital for the new 1.30V limit and optimized memory handling. Do NOT miss out this step if you want your X3D to survive optional PBO overclocking.

When you fit the four DIMMs, do not apply XMP until you have reinstalled Windows. You may get away with plonking the new CPU in the motherboard and keeping your existing Windows installation, but a clean install is a better idea.

After applying XMP, boot the computer from a USB memory stick with MemTest86+ and run several complete cycles of the test. Any faults and your XMP overclock is not stable. Reduce the overclock to 3,400MT/s or loosen the CL (CAS) timings manually, by one or two clock cycles at 3,600MT/s, i.e. CL17 or CL18.

This is extremely helpful! Thank you!


Yes, regarding the memory I am well aware the 4 individual sticks will be trickier to OC. Unfortunately, these are not identical. I dont believe there is any store here in my country that actually sells a set of 4. These are 2 individual 8x2(16gb) kits of ram. I even opted to get an expensive one hoping that they would OC better. I guess in hindsight maybe buying 3600 CL18's were the better choice but I kept reading on forums that 3200+OC would be better since its CL16.

I am also ready for the BIOS update and have them on two different USB's just incase the other doesn't read or work.

Lastly, the thing about the Windows OS --- would It hurt to try first with just the CPU newly installed before I do a clean install? This is one of the main reasons why I truly want to avoid AM5.

I really appreciate this, thank you so much.

 

[Misgar]

You should be fine just fitting the new CPU without reinstalling Windows, but if you have problems with the OS you can't fix, you know what to do.

I inadvertently booted up an AMD 2600X mobo yesterday from an SSD out of an old Intel system. Serves me right for not checking the drive boot order, after adding a second SSD to see what was on it.

I realised the mistake as soon as I saw the "Installing new hardware" messages before the Windows 10 Desktop appeared. The system booted perfectly, following the transition from Intel to AMD hardware.

It's similar to booting Windows from a WinToUSB memory stick. Each time you plug a portable Windows USB stick into a new machine, it finds new hardware and intalls new drivers.

 

[3jackdaw]

You should be fine just fitting the new CPU without reinstalling Windows, but if you have problems with the OS you can't fix, you know what to do.

I inadvertently booted up an AMD 2600X mobo yesterday from an SSD out of an old Intel system. Serves me right for not checking the drive boot order, after adding a second SSD to see what was on it.

I realised the mistake as soon as I saw the "Installing new hardware" messages before the Windows 10 Desktop appeared. The system booted perfectly, following the transition from Intel to AMD hardware.

It's similar to booting Windows from a WinToUSB memory stick. Each time you plug a portable Windows USB stick into a new machine, it finds new hardware and intalls new drivers.

Understood! That has happened to me before as well, maybe this time I'll just leave the the M.2 drive that has the OS and unplug the other SSDs I have, that way the boot order wont get confused.

Actually, when I moved from intel to AMD I didn't do a clean install either. But that was back in 2020 when I got my 3600x upgrading from an i7 something, cant remember. But eventually months after I remember doing a clean install just for peace of mind and just to clear up the whole computer and start fresh.

Hoping I wont need to do a clean install. If ever and I have to; I will early prepare for it now and download software essential for my work and save on another USB drive.




thanks again!

 

[Misgar]

The only time when it's important to disconnect all other HDDs or SSDs, is when you're installing Windows on a drive.

Sometimes, in multi disk systems, Windows installs the boot partition on another drive. You're blissfully unware of this fact, until you unplug the drive with the errant boot partition and your computer no longer boots into Windows.

 

[3jackdaw]

The only time when it's important to disconnect all other HDDs or SSDs, is when you're installing Windows on a drive.

Sometimes, in multi disk systems, Windows installs the boot partition on another drive. You're blissfully unware of this fact, until you unplug the drive with the errant boot partition and your computer no longer boots into Windows.

Indeed, I believe this has also happened to me before if I'm not mistaken.

So would you suggest I really do unplug it all except the m.2 where I want to install windows? Given that I have to do clean install? (because I have gut feeling it will end like that anyway) 🙁


Also I forgot to ask regarding PBO on the 5800x3d.
Is it common practice to actually turn PBO on, that is what people do right because I know for a fact this chip cannot be overclocked or maybe I'm misunderstanding what PBO really does which is to auto-overclock(safefly) ?

 

[Misgar]

Yes, unplug all drives except the M.2 when installing Windows. You can reconnect them after you've finishedoading the new OS.

It's up to you if choose to overclock your Ryzen with Precision Boost Overdrive, but it may invalidate AMD's warranty and it holds the X3D at the 90C limit for longer. PBO also stresses your CPU cooler harder.

It's doubtful you'll get any noticeable improvement, especially from an X3D, but some people like to push the boundaries. I'm not using PBO on my 7950X. It's been running at 80 to 90C for the last two days with video renders. The GPU gets even hotter.

 

[3jackdaw]

Yes, unplug all drives except the M.2 when installing Windows. You can reconnect them after you've finishedoading the new OS.

It's up to you if choose to overclock your Ryzen with Precision Boost Overdrive, but it may invalidate AMD's warranty and it holds the X3D at the 90C limit for longer. PBO also stresses your CPU cooler harder.

It's doubtful you'll get any noticeable improvement, especially from an X3D, but some people like to push the boundaries. I'm not using PBO on my 7950X. It's been running at 80 to 90C for the last two days with video renders. The GPU gets even hotter.

I see, I dont think I would use PBO then. I thought that what people with 5800x3d would normally do to maximize the chip. I would for sure undervolt it since I dont have a good CPU cooler yet. I just have a $40 single tower air cooler with a single 140mm Be quiet fan. For now, this should suffice I hope.