[SOLVED] In need of suggestions!

[Andyme177]

Hey all, I've been asked to help a friend put together a system to stream netflix, play the latest version of online virtual golf and video poker games, with windows 10 and office. budget is whatever is within reason. Future upgrading may be an option.

Any suggestions also what do you think of putting the OS on an M2 drive and getting a 1 or 2TB HDD for the rest

 

[Darkbreeze]

Basically ANY kind of current gen machine could do that.

What do you consider "within reason"?

 

[Andyme177]

I'm thinking give the option for graphics card but use a Ryzen 5 3600G so the onboard graphics will be good. keep the price as low as I can under 700

 

[Darkbreeze]

No such thing as 3600G.

There is a 3200G and a 3400G. That's it for the APUs and those are NOT Zen2 processors. They are Zen+ just like the Ryzen 5 2600x and 2700x which is a second gen architecture, not third gen like the rest of the Ryzen 3000 series. There is only four core with four hyperthreads available right now in the APUs, no six cores. Those are coming in the 4000 series later in the year, supposedly.

For now, if you want to use an APU, the 3400G, which is an 8 thread CPU, is the best you can do and to be honest it is perfectly fine for the use case you've outlined. Better than needed to be honest. I have an old AMD FX-8320 system out in my garage that can do all those things, and more, and it's 8 years old.

And RIGHT NOW, it's just about pointless to try and build anything with a Ryzen 3200G, 3400G or any Ryzen 3000 series CPU, UNLESS you are willing to pay SIGNIFICANTLY more for an X570 motherboard because ALL of the "out of the box" compatible or BIOS flashback equipped motherboards are completely out of stock at every retailer in the continental US unless you can find some small shop somewhere with one. I'd wait about a week or two and at that time then THIS might work because somebody might actually have the motherboard in stock by then.

Power supply availability is even worse, by far, than motherboards, currently. We hope to see both of these get better within a few weeks otherwise people can just stop even thinking about building anything until inventory levels from China start returning to normal again.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3400G 3.7 GHz Quad-Core Processor ($149.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard ($114.99 @ Best Buy)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($64.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial P2 250 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($49.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Blue 3 TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($63.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Focus G ATX Mid Tower Case ($74.99 @ B&H)
Power Supply: Antec High Current Gamer Gold 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($115.63 @ Amazon)
Total: $634.56
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-06-07 22:25 EDT-0400

 

[Andyme177]

This is where I'm feeling this system might go what power supply do y'all suggest the usage without a graphics card is sitting at 189 Watts at base speed. Should I forgo the M2 and just put two 2tb then there will never be storage issues or do you feel having the OS on a fast clean drive is better?

CPU: AMD Ryzen 3 3200G 3.6 GHz Quad-Core Processor ($87.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard ($114.99 @ Best Buy)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Patriot VPN100 256 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($50.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda Compute 2 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($54.99 @ Newegg)

 

[Andyme177]

I do appreciate your knowledge. I feel like I'm running a Gen 1 Pentium brain in a Gen 8 world!

 

[Darkbreeze]

You will likely not be able to run 3600mhz memory with a Zen+ CPU, and the current Ryzen 3200G and 3400G CPUs "ARE" Zen+, not Zen2. 3200mhz is likely the best you can do and you may only be able to do 2933mhz depending on the board and memory module. For the Tomahawk max and the Ripjaws, with a 3200G or 3400G, 3200mhz like I outlined in the build I listed will probably work fine.

Keep in mind as well, the 3200G is ONLY a four core CPU. It has NO hyperthreading so it is FOUR THREADS ONLY, while the 3400G is able to handle 8 threads, much like 2nd through 7th Gen Intel i7 CPUs.

Four cores is probably good enough for what you outlined above, but if this person decides to install a higher end graphics card and play more demanding games at all, it's going to fall short. Same goes for the assumption of power required by your estimates. I would not EVER go with anything less than a 450w power supply for ANY modern custom built PC, and I would certainly not install anything less than a pretty good 550w PSU for any system that you expect might be getting a graphics card in the next year or two. While it's true that there are graphics cards that might only require a good 450w PSU, any model that is moderately capable beyond the slot powered cards is going to need a 550-650w model. Otherwise, they end up having to AGAIN buy another part when they discover their PSU is not up to the task. Buy what you are going to need from the beginning. If you never end up putting a graphics card in it, you really haven't lost anything of significance because any GOOD 450w PSU, especially right now, is probably going to cost just as much as any GOOD 550w model.

As for the M.2 drive, I'd trust Crucial a LOT more than Patriot. Micron/Crucial has been doing this for decades longer than Patriot and is an OEM manufacturer of DRAM and NAND for these other brands as well as themselves.

 

[Andyme177]

my current specs of my PC are

CPU: AMD Ryzen 3 3200G 3.6 GHz Quad-Core Processor ($87.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI B450 Gaming Plus MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate FireCuda 2 TB 2.5" 5400RPM Hybrid Internal Hard Drive ($119.88 @ Other World Computing)
Case: Corsair 100R ATX Mid Tower Case ($54.99 @ Best Buy)
Power Supply: Thermaltake Smart Series 430 W 80+ Certified ATX Power Supply ($49.99 @ B&H)
Custom: Cudy WE3000 AX 3000Mbps Wireless WiFi 6 PCIe Card for PC, Bluetooth 5.0, AX200 Module Inside, 2402Mbps+574Mbps WiFi 6 Speed, Bluetooth 5.0/4.2/4.0, 802.11ax/ac/a/b/g/n, Windows 10 64-bit Only (Purchased For $0.00)

when I view the speed it shows running at 1066 MHz in CPU-Z, 2133MHz combined in task manager.

keep in mind I have done nothing to the settings to overclock anything or change anything from default settings.
I am aware it can be done but I don't know all the tricks and what to put to what yet maybe you have suggestions for that as well. I intend to get a faster CPU in the future but for now this one works with my own budget.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Yes, you need to go into the BIOS and enable the A-XMP profile in the memory settings section, and then save settings and exit the BIOS to see if it will POST and boot with those settings. If it will not, you will likely need to reset the BIOS by either using the CMOS reset jumper pins, button or remove the CMOS battery for a few minutes. Then start up, go back into the BIOS, load the "optimal default" or "setup default" settings, save settings, exit and see if it is back to normal. If so, then go back into the BIOS, set the A-XMP profile again, but then manually set the memory speed to 3200mhz and leave the rest of the memory settings on Auto. Save settings and exit.

Plenty of tutorials out there on how to set XMP profile settings for every different type of board manufacturer and chipset/generation.

 

[Andyme177]

I went into the bios it shows the RAM set to run at 3600MHz A-XMP profile1 but at the top only shows it working at 2133MHz I never did a bios update when I put system together everything just worked so I left it at that.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Probably a VERY good idea to update the BIOS.

Yes, I have seen the same issue with the XMP profile set but not running at that speed. Make sure that the memory training is set to "Normal boot" not "Fast boot" and I mean in the memory section, not in the boot section.

Probably it would be a good idea for you to manually change the memory frequency from 3600mhz to 3200mhz, then save settings and see if it will boot to Windows. If it will, then run CPU-Z and look at the details on both the memory tab and the SPD tab, or download and install HWinfo, run "Sensors only" and check to see what the speed and timings are that it shows for the memory.

 

[Andyme177]

okay I will update the bios and change the setting to 3200Mhz in the morning and let you know what happens.

 

[Darkbreeze]

So, was there actually a build in the works for your "friend", or no?

 

[Andyme177]

So, was there actually a build in the works for your "friend", or no?

yes we are looking at what he wants to do and I know how to build one for GTA but not real familiar with good specs for less need

 

[Andyme177]

seems strange the computer won't give me the 3600MHz but it did give me the 3200MHz with XMP off and manually set to 3200 the board says it can handle upto 4100 the Ryzen 3 didn't give me any indications there was an incompatability but 1600 is better than 1055

 

[Darkbreeze]

You can probably also tighten the timings up significantly with that lower speed setting. Do you know what the four main timings for your memory kit are under the XMP profile? What is the exact model of the memory kit?

In truth, 3200mhz memory running at CL/CAS 14 latency is actually FASTER than 3600mhz memory at CL16 latency. So if the timings can be tightened down it can eliminate any loss of performance. But, it is a process and it's not just a matter of change a few numbers and now I'm good. I can help you with it if you wish to try but it would be a good idea to first familiarize yourself with the content in my memory guide including the test procedures you will need to run if you wish to make manual changes to the memory timings.

How To - Troubleshooting problems with PC memory (RAM) and XMP profile configurations

In the beginning, there was......BIOS Before you go ANY further, go to the manufacturer product page for your specific motherboard model AND revision. Revision is an important aspect because for any given motherboard there may be more than one version of that model which will be identified...

forums.tomshardware.com

 

[Andyme177]

Full specs as of today
CPU: AMD Ryzen 3 3200G 3.6 GHz Quad-Core Processor
Motherboard: MSI B450 Gaming Plus MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory
Storage: Seagate FireCuda 2 TB 2.5" 5400RPM Hybrid Internal Hard Drive
Case: Corsair 100R ATX Mid Tower Case
Power Supply: Thermaltake Smart Series 430 W 80+ Certified ATX Power Supply
Wifi: Cudy WE3000 AX 3000Mbps Wireless WiFi 6 PCIe Card for PC, Bluetooth 5.0, AX200 Module Inside, 2402Mbps+574Mbps WiFi 6 Speed, Bluetooth 5.0/4.2/4.0, 802.11ax/ac/a/b/g/n,
OS: Windows 10 64-bit

next ugrade budget permitting
Video Card: XFX Radeon RX 580 8 GB GTS XXX ED Video Card

right now ram running at 1599.1MHz 16-18-18-36-75 according to the memory tab on CPU-Z in Bios Game boost and XMP profiles1, and 2 are disabled I will check the BIOS to see what settings I get with the XMP profiles and report back.

 

[Darkbreeze]

 

[Andyme177]

out of box my MOBO had bios version from 11/7/2019 there was an update on 4/24/2020 I downloaded it extracted it to a usb flash drive but when I follow the instructions for M-Flash it says it doesn't detect the USB Drive do I need to change the format of the drive maybe?
when I look on CPU-Z SPD tab I see the last set of boxes shows 1801 MHz 16-19-19-39-58 1.350v does that mean if I set the voltage to 1.350v I can set the ram to 3600 MHz

 

[Andyme177]

xmp profiles 1 and 2 say 3600MHz 16-19-19-39

 

[Darkbreeze]

Yes, the flash drive should be formatted as "FAT32", not NTFS.

Also, you don't even need to use Mflash. You have a BIOS flashback USB port on that motherboard. Format the flash drive for FAT32, put the files on there, stick the drive in the flashback port and push the button. Exactly as outlined here:

 

[Andyme177]

It's been a good ten plus years since I formatted a drive. The windows tool gives the options of ExFAT or NTFS. I went with ExFAT the BIOS still says it doesn't detect the drive, but it's found the minute windows loads. I tried all three methods of upgrading the BIOS none detect the drive. I'm just going to leave it for now Don't really feel like disassembling it all again. As for getting the best speed possible I'd love to tweak it. the in BIOS Game boost says it will take whatever speed the RAM gives me and +450 MHz. It also warns you if your RAM is set to 3400 MHz and you activate Game boost the BIOS automatically goes to default setting 2133MHz + the game boost

 

[Darkbreeze]

It should be a simple process unless there is a problem with the drive.

We'll be back.

It might be necessary, I guess, in some cases, to first delete the existing partition on the drive, then create a new simple volume, in disk management, and THEN format it as FAT32. But honestly, unless there are problems with the volume or the drive, it should simply allow you to format it with whatever file system you want.

 

[Andyme177]

for whatever reason the version of windows 10 I have doesn't have the option to format to FAT32. Only NTFS or exFAT. I downloaded Minitool Partition Wizard it allowed me to use FAT32. I did that BIOS now recognizes the usb drive as it should so I just need to put the bios on it and do the deed. Meantime with current Bios I have tried different speeds for the RAM without game boost or XMP active it is now running at 3333MHz,
CPU-Z memory tab 1665.7 MHz 16-18-18-36-78 I also have not played with the OC on the CPU it's running at 3.6 MHz according to the book it can be up to 4.2 MHz but I don't know what settings to change to do that.