News Intel 10th Gen Comet Lake-H CPU Specs Leaked

chaz_music

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I could not find any information if Intel is finally adding ECC RAM functionality to these HEDT processors. There is no reason to have CPUs in that high of a price range without native ECC support. Memory is the only main CPU subsystem that Intel desktops do not have some kind of error correction built in. And don't say price: the cost is parity :)p). But really: the cost is truly negligible. With the new memory interfaces being developed, it could be just part of the memory standard.

For example of the other subsystems with protection: error correction is built in to your SSD and on some models there are two layers of protection (ECC and RAID). Some more examples are: the HDD platter reading system, the SATA protocol, even the PCIe bus has error correction. The design costs for these are just part of the basic CPU platform.

There will be many who are gamers or overclockers who won't care, but for most people, having a reliable computer is necessary. I prefer not having my computer get corrupted anymore because of high sunspot activity or from other gamma ray sources. There is a Google study that shows a direct correlation.

The current AMD Pro CPUs support ECC, and many AMD desktop CPUs from the past 15 years supported it. Intel needs to get away from the ECC price market model from the 1990's and come into the 21st century. Come on, Intel and stop being heavy handed with your customers. I used to be a big Intel fan, but I have not purchased an Intel CPU in nearly 8 years because of practices just like this, and have steered my family away from buying Intel products.
 
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bit_user

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I could not find any information if Intel is finally adding ECC RAM functionality to these HEDT processors.
Intel always used this as market segmentation between the high-end gaming and professional markets. If you want ECC, you'll have to go Xeon. Complain all you want. I'll still up-vote you, but Intel doesn't care.

Or, switch to AMD and use one of their non-APU systems + a motherboard with ECC support. If enough HEDT users did that, Intel could start to change their tune.

For example of the other subsystems with protection: error correction is built in to your SSD and on some models there are two layers of protection (ECC and RAID).
Intel still reserves a full implementation of this for their enterprise-oriented SSDs:


BTW, at the low-end, most of Intel's i3's support ECC. I'm using one in a home server.
 

nofanneeded

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I could not find any information if Intel is finally adding ECC RAM functionality to these HEDT processors. There is no reason to have CPUs in that high of a price range without native ECC support. Memory is the only main CPU subsystem that Intel desktops do not have some kind of error correction built in. And don't say price: the cost is parity :)p). But really: the cost is truly negligible. With the new memory interfaces being developed, it could be just part of the memory standard.

For example of the other subsystems with protection: error correction is built in to your SSD and on some models there are two layers of protection (ECC and RAID). Some more examples are: the HDD platter reading system, the SATA protocol, even the PCIe bus has error correction. The design costs for these are just part of the basic CPU platform.

There will be many who are gamers or overclockers who won't care, but for most people, having a reliable computer is necessary. I prefer not having my computer get corrupted anymore because of high sunspot activity or from other gamma ray sources. There is a Google study that shows a direct correlation.

The current AMD Pro CPUs support ECC, and many AMD desktop CPUs from the past 15 years supported it. Intel needs to get away from the ECC price market model from the 1990's and come into the 21st century. Come on, Intel and stop being heavy handed with your customers. I used to be a big Intel fan, but I have not purchased an Intel CPU in nearly 8 years because of practices just like this, and have steered my family away from buying Intel products.

True AMD supports ECC non registered RAM but the problem is : non registered ECC ram is hard to find at higher capacities , if found at all in any non server grade Motherboard even for AMD .. they dont even test ECC RAM for their motherboards not in their QVL list at all.
 

jimmysmitty

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I could not find any information if Intel is finally adding ECC RAM functionality to these HEDT processors. There is no reason to have CPUs in that high of a price range without native ECC support. Memory is the only main CPU subsystem that Intel desktops do not have some kind of error correction built in. And don't say price: the cost is parity :)p). But really: the cost is truly negligible. With the new memory interfaces being developed, it could be just part of the memory standard.

For example of the other subsystems with protection: error correction is built in to your SSD and on some models there are two layers of protection (ECC and RAID). Some more examples are: the HDD platter reading system, the SATA protocol, even the PCIe bus has error correction. The design costs for these are just part of the basic CPU platform.

There will be many who are gamers or overclockers who won't care, but for most people, having a reliable computer is necessary. I prefer not having my computer get corrupted anymore because of high sunspot activity or from other gamma ray sources. There is a Google study that shows a direct correlation.

The current AMD Pro CPUs support ECC, and many AMD desktop CPUs from the past 15 years supported it. Intel needs to get away from the ECC price market model from the 1990's and come into the 21st century. Come on, Intel and stop being heavy handed with your customers. I used to be a big Intel fan, but I have not purchased an Intel CPU in nearly 8 years because of practices just like this, and have steered my family away from buying Intel products.
This is not a HEDT CPU. This is a mobile CPU. No need for ECC for a CPU that is being marketed towards high end gaming laptops.
 

chaz_music

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This is not a HEDT CPU. This is a mobile CPU. No need for ECC for a CPU that is being marketed towards high end gaming laptops.
I would have agree with you 10 years ago, and even now, I agree for gamers. For those people who just want speed and overclocking, turn off the ECC in the bios. It will save you one RAM clock tic per random access, but no savings with sequential reads.

My main question to you is this: Why would you accept that a mobile computer is ok to have memory errors? The idea of only using ECC memory in servers only is a 1990's concept. This is 2020. Quit following 1990s marketing dogma. And I admit, I've followed dogma before also. It is what marketing psychology is all about, to get us to spend money.

I contend that even a laptop should have ECC, just as it * ALREADY* has error correction in the HDD/SSDs, USB, and and the PCI subsystems. Even the old ethernet and WiFi systems have error correction. If this is was a big cost adder for the PCI/HDD/SSD, they would have segmented those markets also. But it isn't, so they included it as necessary logic wanted by the consumers.

And note: Even some embedded CPUs have ECC or other memory protection schemes now like CRC checking. One area is in automotive. As the voltage for memory ICs goes down, this is going to become acute.

As a hard-core technologist and entrepreneur, I always question why we should accept mediocre quality. This was what made Steve Jobs so awesome as a designer AND a hell of a marketing guy. One of his best quotes is "It is not the customer's responsibility to know what they want". As that, you think that you don't want ECC (you've been taught that it costs too much) but Steve Jobs would be saying that you don't want your PC to crash.

I studied IC design in college, and to me, this truly is a no-brainer. The logic real estate needed to implement ECC is amazingly simple. Shoot, the XOR logic used in SSDs is more complex!

It does not make sense to me why people allow themselves to get locked into thinking it is ok to pay for something that has been clearly used as a marketing tool for raking in profits. As Bit_user said above, he would expect to buy a Xeon. We are trained by marketing dogma to follow market traditions.

The CPU vendors want you to continue drinking that koolaid so they can continue to upcharge for what should be basic feature now. Think of your car. Does your car manufacture charge extra for air bags. No. It is built-in now. But ... 20 years ago it was an upcharge.

My $0.02 worth.
 

chaz_music

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BTW, at the low-end, most of Intel's i3's support ECC. I'm using one in a home server.
[/QUOTE]

Yep, a friend has an i3 with ECC in his FreeNAS system. Note that FreeNAS has ZFS file system for error correction at the filesystem level. I had to do that. Just to stay on topic.

:)
 

jimmysmitty

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Moderator
I would have agree with you 10 years ago, and even now, I agree for gamers. For those people who just want speed and overclocking, turn off the ECC in the bios. It will save you one RAM clock tic per random access, but no savings with sequential reads.

My main question to you is this: Why would you accept that a mobile computer is ok to have memory errors? The idea of only using ECC memory in servers only is a 1990's concept. This is 2020. Quit following 1990s marketing dogma. And I admit, I've followed dogma before also. It is what marketing psychology is all about, to get us to spend money.

I contend that even a laptop should have ECC, just as it ALREADY has error correction in the HDD/SSDs, USB, and and the PCI subsystems. Even the old ethernet and WiFi systems have error correction. If this is was a big cost adder for the PCI/HDD/SSD, they would have segmented those markets also. But it isn't, so they included it as necessary logic wanted by the consumers.

And note: Even some embedded CPUs have ECC or other memory protection schemes now like CRC checking. One area is in automotive. As the voltage for memory ICs goes down, this is going to become acute.

As a hard-core technologist and entrepreneur, I always question why we should accept mediocre quality. This was what made Steve Jobs so awesome as a designer AND a hell of a marketing guy. One of his best quotes is "It is not the customer's responsibility to know what they want". As that, you think that you don't want ECC (you've been taught that it costs too much) but Steve Jobs would be saying that you don't want your PC to crash.

I studied IC design in college, and to me, this truly is a no-brainer. The logic real estate needed to implement ECC is amazingly simple. Shoot, the XOR logic used in SSDs is more complex!

It does not make sense to me why people allow themselves to get locked into thinking it is ok to pay for something that has been clearly used as a marketing tool for raking in profits. As Bit_user said above, he would expect to buy a Xeon. We are trained by marketing dogma to follow market traditions.

The CPU vendors want you to continue drinking that koolaid so they can continue to upcharge for what should be basic feature now. Think of your car. Does your car manufacture charge extra for air bags. No. It is built-in now. But ... 20 years ago it was an upcharge.

My $0.02 worth.
Because the errors are inconsequential to normal use. Having built and used PCs for more than half my life I can say that the odds that using non ECC memory would actually cause full on corruption of all of your data is slim to none.

While it may be simple, you also have added cost to the RAM, CPU and motherboard which always gets passed on to the end user.

PS. Steve Jobs was more marketing than design but he was OK with using cheaper labor to produce these non mediocre designs.
 

chaz_music

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Because the errors are inconsequential to normal use. Having built and used PCs for more than half my life I can say that the odds that using non ECC memory would actually cause full on corruption of all of your data is slim to none.
Having worked in aerospace for several years, I would tell you that DRAM errors are quite frequent. And it does not have to "kill" your system to have an effect. Unless you have had laptops with 2 foot thick aluminum, you have had soft errors in your hand built PCs. I am guessing that you have had BSOD screens that you could not find a fault? Ever had a Windows file that showed up corrupt? How did that happen?

Turns out this is already fixed. ECC is builtin to DDR5 at the die level.

Tom's Hardware DDR5 Article 2020.0403
 

jimmysmitty

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Having worked in aerospace for several years, I would tell you that DRAM errors are quite frequent. And it does not have to "kill" your system to have an effect. Unless you have had laptops with 2 foot thick aluminum, you have had soft errors in your hand built PCs. I am guessing that you have had BSOD screens that you could not find a fault? Ever had a Windows file that showed up corrupt? How did that happen?

Turns out this is already fixed. ECC is builtin to DDR5 at the die level.

Tom's Hardware DDR5 Article 2020.0403
On my personal machines? Never. But I have been lucky and I tend to do clean installs of Windows every 1-2 years to keep it clean.

As I said the chances are very slim. Where you worked is vastly different to a normal user. A normal user isn't going to be pushing tons of data a day through a system. There is no need to add cost to a normal user.

Does a normal user need a feature like vPro which allows for remote support? Not really.

Its great if they decide to add it in as part of the basic spec but its just not something that is neccessary for the vast majority of consumer end users.
 

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