Discussion Intel answer to ryzen 3000 - MAJOR generation

enewmen

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Hi All. When the AMD Athlon / Sledge Hammer was doing well against the Pentium 4, Intel later came out with CORE to settle it.
Now with Ryzen 3000 doing well, I don't see ANY Intel CPU successor that's really a Ryzen killer. Just a 14nm+++++ 10 core Coffee Lake with a higher TDP?
So, any rumors/ideas WHEN/WHAT the next MAJOR Intel CPU / Chipset generation is?
Something like CORE-Successor,workstation Optane + DDR5 sticks (mainstream DDR5), 512+GB (pure)Optane M.2, PCIe 5.0, mainstream 10gb ethernet, ray-tracing iGPU, etc. 2023 dumb guess?
thanks!
 
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Darkbreeze

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Intel wants to hear the answer to this question too, because currently they are unsure and have had problems just producing a sufficient supply of the architectures they DO have in production as it is. LOL.
 

nicholas70

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Supposedly Intel will be releasing a 10 core 20 thread flagship in early 2020 to compete with the new AMD offerings, but it will be 14nm+++++. I'm guessing that being the case it will be extremely power hungry and run very hot, and just not be that great a buy compared to AMD. As much as I hate to say it I think Intel is going to lose its market leader status for desktop for a couple years until it moves on from the 14nm node.
 
Ice Lake is not going to be a slouch from what Intel has disclosed so far, so I'd keep an eye on its evolution from here on out. Also, Ry3K is not going to hands down beat Intel at all. AMD will reach parity across the board (most likely), but it won't be a home run by any stretch of the word. This is not a bad thing at all and AMD's product line is going to be really competitive across all the stack.

Cheers!
 
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God i hope ryzen really delivers. 3900x + x570 mobo does look like a future proof upgrade if it can compete with current intel chips in gaming.
My biggest concern though is overclocking and memory capability because if i decide to upgrade i would also go to 2x16 gb ram and expect at least a 4.8 ghz which current amd chips often cannot achieve.
 

nicholas70

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I kind of wish I had known how good Ryzen 3 was going to be back when I upgraded in Nov. I'd would have probably gone off Intel and moved to AMD if I had known what I know today. I'm just surprised Intel looks to be ceding its title of king of gaming cpus to AMD. It'll be interesting to see how things play out over the next few years to see if Intel can make a comeback, and how Intel and AMD both fare with the slow encroachment of ARM processors into their market.
 
God i hope ryzen really delivers. 3900x + x570 mobo does look like a future proof upgrade if it can compete with current intel chips in gaming.
My biggest concern though is overclocking and memory capability because if i decide to upgrade i would also go to 2x16 gb ram and expect at least a 4.8 ghz which current amd chips often cannot achieve.
A particular clock speed desire is often based on old examples of AMD and current Intel CPUs...; most know clock speed itself is not all that important if the performance is commensurate w/ higher clocked CPUs... (you might be too young to remember Athlon 64/3500+ at 2.0 GHz routinely thrashing P4-3.14 GHz CPUs in gaming....; and, certainly, clock speed alone meant VERY little in the recent past, with AMDs old FX processors at up to 5 GHz taking 30-40% thrashings across the board by Intel CPUs clocked 1 or more GHz lower...and often with fewer cores, no less)
 

enewmen

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Thanks for the posts!
I read before, the Intel 10nm just can't do a high TDP and high frequencies. So we will never see a 10nm desktop or high-end laptop. Even the Ice Lake/Tiger Lake /Sunny Cove is only 2-4 cores and <= 28 watt.
Intel's first 7nm is 2021 will be a Xeon, so I guess the first major mainstream generation won't be until 2022. So if I had to buy now and want future-proof, I'll need an AMD CPU/Chipset.

EDIT: This also kills my theory that Intel ALWAYS had some "skunk" CPUs hidden from the public, so Intel can quickly whip out a radical new design in case a competitor came out with something good and unexpected.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-7nm-10nm-investor-process,39298.html
 
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nicholas70

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If Intel doesn't get back into the desktop game by 2022 it might not regain its title of king of gaming cpus because at the rate things are going AMD will likely be on 5nm by that time.
 

nicholas70

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Well supposedly TSMC is building its 5nm production facilities and construction should be complete prior to 2020, so the possibility that they will be producing 5nm products for AMD by 2022 does exist.
 

Darkbreeze

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Theoretically? Sure. Realistically? It usually takes quite a while after the production facilities are complete to design, build and refine a process and then begin producing them in mass.

But I suppose it's possible. Keep in mind though, that every shrink makes it magnitudes more complex and difficult, so there are likely to be enormous unforeseen mountains to climb in pursuit of the 5nm product.
 

nicholas70

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I'm simply making the assumtion that we could see 5nm by 2022 based on TSMC's time from risk production of 7nm to full scale production of 7nm. Of course TSMC could start having issues like Intel had when trying to go to 10nm which would mean we would not see 5nm until after 2025. This would be good news for Intel as it would allow them a chance to catch up to and once again surpass AMD.
 

enewmen

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The Intel 10nm is based on ultraviolet while the 7nm & 5nm TSMC/Samsung uses extreme ultraviolet. Using extreme ultraviolet seems to make the small nodes a lot easier to make than ultraviolet. Intel will also use extreme ultraviolet for their 7nm. So I'm guessing the move from Intel (production) 10nm to 7nm will be very short. Then we can start seeing large 7nm Intel dies in 2021/2022 if all goes well for Intel. If TSMC/Samsung/Global Foundries(??) can't get their 5nm out at full steam by 2022, they may feel Intel's wrath.
my 2 cents worth.

 

retroforlife

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Intel care more about the server market since that's where there money is they just like to casually drop a desktop CPU every once in a while to push amd off the table they have more than enough to work it out will just take time since it's unlikely to be there top priority 😁
 

gondo

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Intel Icelake mobile CPUs look promising. Very good battery life and onboard GPU. Plus built in support for Wifi 6 and Thunderbolt over USB 4.0. They are on a 10nm process. I think Intel will once again dominate the notebook market with these over AMD.

If intel can have a good onboard GPU plus built in support for Wifi 6, and USB 4.0 then they may have the cheaper option as far as motherboards go. Will have to wait and see. I think AMD is just starting to level playing field but they arn't cleaning up yet.

I'm also looking at streaming gaming services such as Google Stadia. If this is the future then we no longer need $800 video cards and I7 CPUs. A nice notebook and a 4k 32" monitor would be perfect and cheaper. I think the future of video cards is dying.
 

enewmen

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@gondo
While the IceLake looks promising with the reasons you desribe and you look highly decorated & "Distinguished", I didn't find any any high TDP 10nm with more than 4 cores. A 10nm 16 core @ 5ghz/core with < 90 watts (or 10nm 8 core notebook CPU < 45 watts) from Intel will be nice, I NEVER see that happening.
I personally will never like streaming gaming services (even it it really worked @ 4k AND I had enough bandwidth). JUST because I don't like to rely on others so much. Other companies logging my activity every minute is too intrusive for me. Ok, I'll rather spend $1000 on Photoshop than $10 a month because I hate subscriptions and I'll never think about needing to spend again. I'll also personally rather have the $800 video-card and i7/Ryzen 7 3700X with the ability to play/use 100% offline - on an airplane for example without EVER thinking about the service shutting down. One kind of subscription I may like is unlimited game/application downloading for a monthly subscription Xbox Gold/ Netflex style and then play in Steam-Offline mode.

Simple answer, Yes, I agree for <= 28 watts, IceLake and other future low-watt Intel mobile 10nm notebooks will be king of the slim-light for now. For TOTAL Intel domination, I'll wait for their 7nm generation.
 
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InvalidError

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While the IceLake looks promising with the reasons you desribe and you look highly decorated & "Distinguished", I didn't find any any high TDP 10nm with more than 4 cores.
There are no desktop Icelake on roadmaps. Since 10nm is so late and Intel only just started getting decent yields on it while everyone else is on 7nm, Intel probably scrapped most 10nm capacity expansion beyond existing obligations in favor of skipping to 7nm in 2021-2022. That's likely when we'll see Sunny Cove or possibly its successor for mainstream.
 

enewmen

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Sorry to dig up this thread, but it seems obvious Intel should make a 14nm++ version of the Ice Lake to get the higher IPC, the good gen11/12 graphics, AVX-512, wifi6, more cores, higher clocks than 10nm, etc ??
Then just wait for Intel's 7nn when it's ready.
Again, I appreciate the comments from many long time contributors.
 
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