News Intel Clarifies Meteor Lake is Not for Desktop PCs: Not in Socketed Form

[Admin]

Intel will offer Meteor Lake processors for all-in-one and compact desktops, not gaming machines.

Intel Clarifies Meteor Lake is Not for Desktop PCs: Not in Socketed Form : Read more

 

[JarredWaltonGPU]

Grrr... It's like a bunch of people that should be deeply aware of all the connotations of what they're saying don't care about accuracy. "Oh, 'desktop' is a term that includes all-in-ones with soldered chips." Yes, technically, but no one with an ounce of credibility would say that Meteor Lake is coming to 'desktops' if it's only for AIOs. But this does make a lot more sense than having Arrow Lake-S launching next year alongside Meteor Lake-S.

 

[edzieba]

Grrr... It's like a bunch of people that should be deeply aware of all the connotations of what they're saying don't care about accuracy. "Oh, 'desktop' is a term that includes all-in-ones with soldered chips." Yes, technically, but no one with an ounce of credibility would say that Meteor Lake is coming to 'desktops' if it's only for AIOs. But this does make a lot more sense than having Arrow Lake-S launching next year alongside Meteor Lake-S.

Depends on who's talking. For enthusiasts, sockets CPUs may be the supermajority and soldered CPUs may be some random niche thing they never think much about. For CPU makers and system integrators, soldered CPUs are probably the majority by volume and by revenue for client devices, and even for desktop client devices (which is not just AIOs, but the vast swathes of USFF devices and thin clients that pack out offices by the hundreds-per-floor).

 

[dehjomz]

I guess the PCWorld interviewer was supposed to specify "Client Desktop, Meteor Lake-S" I feel the executive should've known what he meant when he said desktop... but whatever, we will see what Arrow Lake offers next year.

 

[ohio_buckeye]

Of course thinking logically how long will it be before you can’t buy a cpu separately? In other words when will it be that when you buy a cpu you buy it already soldered to a board and you just add in the other parts?

 

[JarredWaltonGPU]

Depends on who's talking.

Also depends on whom they're talking to. He's an executive talking to PC World, which doesn't care about AIOs. Gordon might care about SFFs, though... 😀

 

[baboma]

>What remains to be seen is what kind of performance levels those high-performance Meteor Lake CPUs for notebooks will demonstrate when compared to existing Raptor Lake processors for desktops and laptops.

Nobody compares laptops' (or AIOs') performance to desktops. They're in completely different power categories. Laptops aren't compared to AIOs or USFFs for same reason.

That said, Meteor Lake would be ideal for AIO/SFF, as the main challenge for those FFs isn't lack of CPU perf, but heat dissipation. Power efficiency matters, which is MTL's forte. Combined that with improved iGPU and AV1 encoding, MTL would make for an ideal HTPC, among other more general uses. If gaming is desired, it can be coupled with a discrete GPU just like the NUC Extreme.

Consumers don't need extreme CPU power anymore, even hardcore gamers. That's why we can hang on to our oldie PCs for so long.

Personally, an SFF/USFF would be much more attractive to me than yet another tower case PC. I'd prefer the portability and versatility of carrying it around and plugging into any screen/TV I want.

Looking forward to what Asus & other vendors will come up with.

 

[Greg7579]

Hilarious! So now we learn openly that it was not for (real) desktops (with sockets)! LOL! OK, cool. 5 days of confusion.
So, for us higher-end builders (gaming or productivity), we build now with Raptor Lake Refresh 14900K or wait "a year" ???? 😁 for the big generational change - Arrow Lake.

 

[Giroro]

Of course thinking logically how long will it be before you can’t buy a cpu separately? In other words when will it be that when you buy a cpu you buy it already soldered to a board and you just add in the other parts?

Probably never, at least not outside of what is currently happening.
People who want a computer like that just buy the whole computer. Motherboard manufacturers don't want to manage a different sku for every different CPU combo, and retail stores don't want to dedicate shelf space for 500 different motherboards.

 

[TerryLaze]

Probably never, at least not outside of what is currently happening.
People who want a computer like that just buy the whole computer. Motherboard manufacturers don't want to manage a different sku for every different CPU combo, and retail stores don't want to dedicate shelf space for 500 different motherboards.

I wouldn't say never.
The way things are going more and more things get integrated into the CPU, at some point there won't be enough left over for mobo makers to make any money on mobos so whoever makes the CPU will have to be producing SBCs, the raspberry pi and similar devices is where things are going.
It's far far in the future but it will have to happen at some point.

Intel already has a full PC on a GPU size card and the "mobo" is just a PCI slot

This is the PC

This is the mobo.

Compatibility and Interchangeability of Intel® NUC Extreme...

Describes which Intel NUC Extreme Compute Elements are Interchangeable.

www.intel.com

 

[bit_user]

Grrr... It's like a bunch of people that should be deeply aware of all the connotations of what they're saying don't care about accuracy. "Oh, 'desktop' is a term that includes all-in-ones with soldered chips." Yes, technically, but no one with an ounce of credibility would say that Meteor Lake is coming to 'desktops' if it's only for AIOs. But this does make a lot more sense than having Arrow Lake-S launching next year alongside Meteor Lake-S.

I partly blame the interviewer for not asking the obvious follow-up question: LGA1700 or LGA1851? That would've immediately clarified the matter.

Anyway, by this definition, Tiger Lake was a freaking desktop CPU!
🤣

Depends on who's talking.

It was Intel's Executive VP of Client Computing, talking to a PC World reporter. Definitely not someone who should be confused about what's being asked or why.

 

[bit_user]

Consumers don't need extreme CPU power anymore, even hardcore gamers. That's why we can hang on to our oldie PCs for so long.

My work PC has so many layers of security software that it chews up gobs of CPU power, just because.

My personal machine is probably more limited by RAM than CPU power, mainly because websites are so packed full of scripts and ads, and web browsers don't do a better job of suspending them on inactive tabs.

 

[bit_user]

So, for us higher-end builders (gaming or productivity), we build now with Raptor Lake Refresh 14900K or wait "a year" ???? 😁 for the big generational change - Arrow Lake.

On the order of 10% @ single-threaded, according to this supposed official Intel leak.

Intel Raptor Lake Refresh, Arrow Lake CPU Performance Projections Leaked

Arrow Lake's up to 21% faster than Raptor Lake with an over 2X faster iGPU.

www.tomshardware.com

Not as much as I'd have expected, going from "7 nm" to "2 nm"!
(and yes, I put them in quotes because they're obviously not literal metrics)

 

[bit_user]

Probably never, at least not outside of what is currently happening.
People who want a computer like that just buy the whole computer. Motherboard manufacturers don't want to manage a different sku for every different CPU combo, and retail stores don't want to dedicate shelf space for 500 different motherboards.

You can already buy boards with BGA CPUs soldered down. They're (thankfully) rather niche:

• https://www.tomshardware.com/news/asrock-launches-alder-lake-n-mini-itx-micro-atx-motherboards
• https://www.tomshardware.com/news/maxsun-alder-lake-mobile-mini-itx-motherboard
• https://www.tomshardware.com/news/i...-chips-get-soldered-to-micro-atx-motherboards

The thing is, the BGA CPUs tend not to have as many I/O lanes. So, that makes them less suitable for desktop builds. I think the market for socketed mainstream CPUs isn't going away in the foreseeable future.

 

[baboma]

>People who want a computer like that just buy the whole computer. Motherboard manufacturers don't want to manage a different sku for every different CPU combo...

Mini-ITX is pretty standardized, and if small cases are to your liking, you can get a m-ITX case to fit in one hand,

InWin Gaming Chassis

As an ISO 9001 and ISO 14001 manufacturer, InWin specializes in mechanical and electro-mechanical engineering. Integrating its extensive experience in R&D, technology, quality and design, its scope of business encompasses computer chassis, server, power supply and cloud computing.

in-win.com

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUSxtZt0kW8


Intel is making a lot of noise for MTL, so I assume board support will be decent once released, meaning that we'll see it sold in m-ITX boards.

There are smaller FFs than m-ITX, but even if "standardized" they tend to be niche, and finding a case to fit can be a problem. The solution then is to get a barebone, ie board/CPU + case. NUCs are sold like this. No need to buy a complete PC.

 

[bit_user]

There are smaller FFs than m-ITX, but even if "standardized" they tend to be niche, and finding a case to fit can be a problem. The solution then is to get a barebone, ie board/CPU + case. NUCs are sold like this. No need to buy a complete PC.

mini-STX is as small as it seems to go, for standardized socketed boards. Nearly all the min-STX boards I've seen were socketed.

Other than possibly mini-STX, the main issue with the other small board form-factors seems to be the lack of a standard I/O shield. That forces the case to be customized to a particular board or family of boards, thus destroying the potential for an independent case market.

I had high hopes for mini-STX, but it just didn't materialize in the DIY market. It seems to be just used in vendors' proprietary SFF PCs.

@Kamen Rider Blade , back me up on this (or correct me if I'm wrong, here).

BTW, this past summer I went looking for a compact ITX case (i.e. the kind you use with a pico-PSU). There seem to be some pseudo-standards, but I can't find out much about them.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

mini-STX is as small as it seems to go, for standardized socketed boards. Nearly all the min-STX boards I've seen were socketed.

Other than possibly mini-STX, the main issue with the other small board form-factors seems to be the lack of a standard I/O shield. That forces the case to be customized to a particular board or family of boards, thus destroying the potential for an independent case market.

Anything smaller than Mini-ITX is going to not support the standardized ATX Rear I/O shield plate.

I had high hopes for mini-STX, but it just didn't materialize in the DIY market. It seems to be just used in vendors' proprietary SFF PCs.

@Kamen Rider Blade , back me up on this (or correct me if I'm wrong, here).

BTW, this past summer I went looking for a compact ITX case (i.e. the kind you use with a pico-PSU). There seem to be some pseudo-standards, but I can't find out much about them.

The further you go away from a ATX PSU, the harder it is to find a case that supports your PowerSupply.

Mini-STX is kind of a crappy standard after doing my research on the various SFF MoBo options out there. There's many good reasons why it was abandoned.

Intel canabalized it's own market with the 4" x 4" NUC.

Spoiler: The Various SFF MoBo Form Factors that are ≤ Mini-ITX in Dimensions or 2D Area

Then there's the Mini-ATX standard that was created by AOpen that is superior to Mini-STX and is actually a "Square MoBo" instead of a "Squarish MoBo" that Mini-STX was.
Mini-ATX = {(150.0 × 150.0)mm = 22,500.0 mm²} ≈ ( 5.900" × 5.900") <- AOpen's version
Mini-STX = (147.0 × 140.0)mm = 20,580.0 mm² <- Intel's Goofy Non-Square MoBo format.
4x4" NUC = {(102.0 × 102.0)mm = 10,404.0 mm²} ≈ ( 4.010" × 4.010") <- Intel's ACTUAL Popular Square MoBo Format.

Seriously, what was the draft designers thinking when coming up with Mini-STX when Mini-ATX by "AOpen" had a proper "SQUARE MoBo" form factor, don't confuse it with Intel's own deprecated Mini-ATX which is interesting in it's own historical right, but is now deprecated.

The fact that Intel made both formats so close to each other and was getting so close to AOpen's variant of Mini-ATX was DUMB as eff.

Mini-STX deserves to die as a format while "4x4" NUC makes sense along-side AOpen's Mini-ATX.

 

[bit_user]

Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge on the subject!

Anything smaller than Mini-ITX is going to not support the standardized ATX Rear I/O shield plate.

...

Mini-STX deserves to die as a format while "4x4" NUC makes sense along-side AOpen's Mini-ATX.

But they need to make a 2.0 version that has a standardized area for a board-specific I/O shield, no? Else, how are we ever to reach the nirvana of interchangeable cases smaller than min-ITX?

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

But they need to make a 2.0 version that has a standardized area for a board-specific I/O shield, no? Else, how are we ever to reach the nirvana of interchangeable cases smaller than min-ITX?

Getting every MoBo form factor in the SFF space to agree is INCREDIBLY hard.

I'm down for it, but it's like herding cats. It requires somebody with ALOT of clout like Intel/AMD.

Personally there's some MoBo formats that I want to revive, create, or promote for personal selfish reasons.
e.g.
- The 80% Minor ATX that is a rename of Mini-ATX that Intel abandoned.
- Flex-ATX that is the 3-slot in-betweener that Intel abandoned.
- My own SSI-UEB as the One Universal Rack-Mount MoBo Format that is physically larger than everything else and allows Rear Expansion Card slots on both sides of the I/O shield
- Nano-ITX to dominate the LapTop form factor
- Pico-ITX to dominate the Small Appliance MoBo market
- Femto-ITX to dominate the Tinker-Board market
- Both Mobile-ITX formats to dominate the Mobile Device Market (Smart Phones & Tablets)

But in all honesty, the SFF form factors would be easier to each get it's own standardized Rear I/O panel spec for each form factor instead of a "Universal Rear I/O Shield".

At the dimensions we're dealing with, it's FAR easier to get commonality per MoBo Form Factor Spec than to get a Universal one.

Spoiler: Scaled Comparison of the various MoBo form factors out there.

And some form factors need to be relegated to the dust-bin of history:
The E-ATX & XL-ATX & EE-ATX form factors are DUMB & a Non-Standard.
They should be deprecated by force of Law & Regulation.
"E-ATX" Is A Lie: XL-ATX, E-ATX, ATX, EEB, and SSI-CEB

Spoiler: Gamers Nexus - Steve's Rant on the Non-Standard BS that is (E-ATX, XL-ATX, EE-ATX)

We have SSI's standard for SSI-CEB, SSI-MEB, SSI-EEB, & SSI-TEB

That covers Server & Consumer while being compatible with ATX with the exception of SSI-TEB.
That's designed for 1U <-> 2U rack mount.

 

[emv]

She meant to say that we would want it in the desktop and that she wants it in the desktop. She misspoke and now they have to backtrack. Now They cancelled desktop for a second time. LOL Raptor Lake Refresh is the next gen for Desktop. I will be surprised if we see meteor lake in more than 25% of Notebooks.

 

[Giroro]

You can already buy boards with BGA CPUs soldered down. They're (thankfully) rather niche:

• https://www.tomshardware.com/news/asrock-launches-alder-lake-n-mini-itx-micro-atx-motherboards
• https://www.tomshardware.com/news/maxsun-alder-lake-mobile-mini-itx-motherboard
• https://www.tomshardware.com/news/i...-chips-get-soldered-to-micro-atx-motherboards

The thing is, the BGA CPUs tend not to have as many I/O lanes. So, that makes them less suitable for desktop builds. I think the market for socketed mainstream CPUs isn't going away in the foreseeable future.

Sure some boards with BGA CPUs exist - but the question was when they would be the only option. I doubt even HP or dell wants to be tied down to that.

I just don't see there ever being enough demand in "big enough to add expansion cards" sized PCs.
In mini PCs sure... but then you're buying a specific mobo built to be in a specific case with a specific PSU, possibly with soldered-down RAM. That's just buying a pre-built, with extra steps.

 

[bit_user]

I will be surprised if we see meteor lake in more than 25% of Notebooks.

Why??

 

[btmedic04]

Aaaaaand I called it in the other articles forum thread

 

[emv]

Why??

Meteor lake is low volume, there is a part still ramping (RL) before it and Intel has promised a part after it end of 2024. It is also very expensive. I think future roadmaps and the details of the "launch" will make this clear.

As a test: what fraction of current laptops are Raptor Lake?