News Intel confirms Microsoft Copilot will soon run locally on PCs, next-gen AI PCs require 40 TOPS of NPU performance

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hotaru251 said:
tbh I am not looking forward to "ai" being requirement for future pc's. (let alone its highly likely just going to make data farming for them easier and a lot harder for users to disable)

They should of been optional features via addon cards if anything. Let those who want them have them but not push em onto everyone.
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This is likely running into a "TPM 3.0" moment on the one side, as Microsoft has its long history of bad faith practice because their customers let them get away with it.

On the other side, it's a bad lesson that Microsoft has learned from Google that is urging them to go even further and include data mining and adware elements right into the OS itself. We are only at the beginning here. Over 70% of users(Android's phone marketshare) are just fine with all the spyware and data telemetry that's in Android.

So if Google does it and their customers stay, why can't Microsoft put spyware and the equivalent data telemetry into Windows? Of course they can. They know they too have a customer base thick with apathy. Might as well cash in on it. They aren't going anywhere.

And when Microsoft does switch Windows to a full time subscription model? Their users will howl to the moon about it, but:

They will not move. Past history is the future predictor.

$$$They $ will $ pay.$$$ And they'll enjoy paying the subscription. And they'll make excuses as to why now it's better that they pay monthly.
 
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I'm already planning my migration to Linux... Definitely not interested in having AI in my computer, since I'm perfectly satisfied with my own intelligence to do the things I want to do with my computer.
 
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josmat said:
I'm already planning my migration to Linux... Definitely not interested in having AI in my computer, since I'm perfectly satisfied with my own intelligence to do the things I want to do with my computer.
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Not really AI and has very little to do with intelligence. Since it's going to run locally, it's best to think of it as advanced automation and assistance software. I'm a power user and can see plenty of uses for it...as long as I don't have to send any of my queries to Microsoft.
 
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josmat said:
I'm already planning my migration to Linux... Definitely not interested in having AI in my computer, since I'm perfectly satisfied with my own intelligence to do the things I want to do with my computer.
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already done it. win 10 being based on data mining was the end for me. a nice secure sandboxed locked down vm lets me play the couple games on windows i want to play and everything else is easy to do in linux. a world without MS and google on my pc is a good one.
 
The magic of local integration and processing is more about cost of operation than anything else. As long as cloud services are necessary for copilot to operate Microsoft isn't just making license revenue but having to stand the dime for the cloud resources (servers, electricity and infrastructure) which is substantial. Once the PC itself localizes the software the end user is then paying for the hardware and electricity and Microsoft is back in the infinitely scalable software licensing model. The necessary cloud infrastructure for OpenAI's current models to work today still makes profitability questionable. When they can pass the cost of operation back to the end user Copilot becomes a money making machine via licensing. That is if anyone is really paying for it. As mentioned by others uptake of Microsoft's prior virtual assistants has been mediocre at best. Corporate uptake, which is where the real licensing money for business software is, will be interesting with the potential privacy issues of a possible rouge AI having access to all of your corporate data and the ability to actually do stuff with it. Current models don't exactly have a stellar track record with "hallucinations" of grandeur and world domination. With that much being said as well I don't really know how great I feel about full OS integration on my home computer.
 
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In regard to mentioned concerns about data farming, I don't think that Microsoft will necessarily push it much. Companies like Alphabet or Meta, they seem to rely a lot on B2C (business to customer) revenue. Meanwhile, Microsoft had e.g. in 2022 only 12% from Windows, 8% from gaming, and 6% from search advertising. While 23% of revenue came from office products and services, and 34% came from server products and cloud services.

In other words, Microsoft is very busy with B2B. Like, servers of a number of companies, they run on Windows, Office is heavily used in many an office, with licensing for it, and so on. And for Microsoft, there is way more to be gained by being like: "And how may we help you further?", than by being like: "We want all that data, even though at least in Europe, we are not really allowed to have it if there is not a specific consent to use of that data." - and at least here in Europe, many a company lawyer would not likely agree to any licensing agreement, which would make the company liable if they were to give Microsoft i.e. personal data of the company's customer (without consent thereto by these customers).

And in that context, when a lot of the "new Office suit" can be run within a local network, or even on a laptop itself, then that actually helps to limit the data spread, when the user is going to use some of the new features anyhow.

(Disclaimer: The company I work at, it has some collaboration with Microsoft going. So, that may make me biased, perhaps. But, just meant to point out, that Microsoft has a bit more going on, than to be interested in some: "We are going to sell an analysis of your most watched cat pictures to an advertiser, who then will have the ads AI-tailored to sell you whatever with a pic of cat.")
 
user7007 said:
what if 40 tops is not be enough for future versions and then it'll run in the cloud anyways or they'll be stuck.
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As a point 40 tops is almost guaranteed not to power all future iterations. The bigger question is will 40 be enough to power a 5-10 year hardware life cycle and with the early phase of NPU development we are in how many tops will become the defacto baseline? If the hype is to be believed 10x-20x per generation performance increases could happen. With that happening baseline obsolescence of first gen stuff is going to happen pretty quickly. Current Gen NPUs won't even make baseline 40 while we should be seeing 40-50ish showing up in the next year and within 2-3 years that number could be as high as 400-800 if you take 10x-20x as a factor of improvement. But what is the average user going to do with that? I guess it is always nice to have a virtual friend you can chat with that lives in your computer and watches everything you do on it and write faux emails for you. So with that runout you can draw your own conclusions.
 
What if I'm on a desktop and don't care about battery life and already have an excessively high performance GPU. Why do I need to buy a new generation of CPU I don't really need just to use your dumb co-pilot?
 
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Makaveli said:
You play windows games inside a VM?
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yes i do. took some reading and a lot of trial and error but i've got it working. pass through a gpu and other resources so the vm has full pc capabilities rather than the basic vm graphic adapter.

allows me to keep MS well away from my everything other than what i allow it to get to, which is to say nothing at all :)
 
First MS wanted TPM or no Windows 11 for you. And now most likely they want us to have an NPU in the system.

Between Intel and MS we are really getting royally skrewed by their pathetic business model. A business model that's literally a data mining machine disguised as a PC.
 
Being able to run LLMs locally will greatly increase their usefulness in certain business segments due to privacy laws, and will enhance their appeal to people who do not want to use a cloud based solution, only a local one.

I also like in their requirement that 16GB RAM is a minimum spec, -long- overdue for Windows machines, so hopefully 8GB won't even be an option in any laptop over $300.

The one thing I don't want is a bloody Copilot key. It took Samsung and other phone manufacturers way too long to finally remove the hated dedicated Assistant key from their devices, Microsoft doesn't need to slap a new key on a keyboard, especially not when an easily assignable secondary function key or the existing Windows + C is by far fine enough.
 
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But is it gonna be co-pilot pro or the * free one that gives you answers to questions you didn't ask.
 
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hotaru251 said:
tbh I am not looking forward to "ai" being requirement for future pc's. (let alone its highly likely just going to make data farming for them easier and a lot harder for users to disable)

They should of been optional features via addon cards if anything. Let those who want them have them but not push em onto everyone.
Click to expand...
Absolutely.

I guess the time is now to go full in to Linux, and hopefully support a Linux distributions that just does not implement any of that crap.

I have a bad feeling that CPU manufacturers will stop supporting the Linux distributions that don't use their blob drivers, but we'll see.
 
So, the next gen Lunar Lake chips with triple the NPU performance, will fall 25% short of the TOPS goal of 40. LOL. Unless Co-Pilot can do one helluva lot more running locally, this is pointless hardware and software. Everything I've tried with it is either wrong, incomplete, or slower than doing it myself. Long way to go for both Intel and Microsoft.
 
I hope something happens where AI crazy companies like Microsoft jump off a bridge... I mean, decide to have a smaller secondary card for AI if you really want it. That way the CPU and GPU aren't mega taxed all the time just to have HAL tell you it's not gonna open the garage door.
 
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