News Intel Core i7-12700K vs AMD Ryzen 9 5900X and 5800X Face Off: Intel Rising

VforV

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I like how you put "aside" the latest price drops for Zen3, like they don't matter and people are idiots and don't buy at lower prices...

Presumably we are all buying Zen3 at the highest prices, right, not when they are low?

12700k is one of the best from Alder Lake (actually better and makes more sense than 12900k), yeah ok, but NO, it does not win on pricing, not with these new Zen3 price drops. And there will be more, Zen3D is coming.

As for performance, sure it wins on average, but by a small margin (because there are games where Zen3 wins too), one that is not that impressive at all, unless you cherry pick specific games... but then again you can do that with Zen3 too, so that's that.

As for the gains in efficiency and power consumption with Alder Lake, I LOL-ed hard. It's pathetic vs Zen3 and if Zen3D manages +15% perf on average at the same efficiency, Alder Lake is gonna look even more pathetic.
 

larkspur

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This is what I see on PCPartpicker right now:
PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Pnghgt

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X 3.7 GHz 12-Core Processor ($478.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI B550-A PRO ATX AM4 Motherboard ($109.00 @ B&H)
Total: $587.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-11-27 10:17 EST-0500

PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/dNj8LP

CPU: Intel Core i7-12700K 3.6 GHz 12-Core Processor ($418.48 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($209.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $628.47
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-11-27 10:18 EST-0500

Not a great mobo comparison since the Z690 board has twice the m.2 slots and 2.5Gb LAN, but you get the idea. $40 more for the 12700k platform, double the m.2 slots, 2.5Gb LAN, iGPU, quicksync, PCIe 5 and
leading the 5900X by 7.5% in gaming, 17% in lightly-threaded work, and ~2% in threaded work, though the latter is closer to a tie when we zoom out to the overall broader picture.
If we include platform costs and actual street prices, the 12700k vs the 5900x is a very competitive matchup. I'd have to give the edge to the 12700k though. I also think a more fair comparison might be with an x570 board that has better features (and is a better match for the 5900x). But if we do that then Ryzen loses its platform pricing advantage.
 

Geezer760

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This is what I see on PCPartpicker right now:
PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Pnghgt

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X 3.7 GHz 12-Core Processor ($478.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI B550-A PRO ATX AM4 Motherboard ($109.00 @ B&H)
Total: $587.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-11-27 10:17 EST-0500

PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/dNj8LP

CPU: Intel Core i7-12700K 3.6 GHz 12-Core Processor ($418.48 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($209.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $628.47
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-11-27 10:18 EST-0500

Not a great mobo comparison since the Z690 board has twice the m.2 slots and 2.5Gb LAN, but you get the idea. $40 more for the 12700k platform, double the m.2 slots, 2.5Gb LAN, iGPU, quicksync, PCIe 5 and
If we include platform costs and actual street prices, the 12700k vs the 5900x is a very competitive matchup. I'd have to give the edge to the 12700k though. I also think a more fair comparison might be with an x570 board that has better features (and is a better match for the 5900x). But if we do that then Ryzen loses its platform pricing advantage.
Don't forget to add in the prices of the rest of the build, NVME, SSD, HD (maybe), PSU, Case, CPU cooler, and the real killer at ridiculous prices is the GPU, by that time your well on your way to a $3000+ system AMD or Intel, I personally would not pay $1000+ on any GPU that's just insane, even $700 for any GPU is pushing it, these days $500 would be the most I'd consider paying for a GPU a (3070), and less for any GPUs below that.
 
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When Ryzen 5000 came out it was the fastest thing available.
So AMD priced it accordingly.
It became the "IN" thing. Everyone had to have it for bragging rights. Which outstripped supply and prices went up.
Normal Supply/Demand economy.
Plus Ryzen5000+ is around the corner to take the gaming lead back by a small margin if all the rumors are true.
Ryzen 5000 is now "out" and Intel 12 series is the top dog for the moment.
Retailers will adjust prices accordingly.
So prices for parts change again as supply/demand determines.
Aren't we lucky that AMD's advancements have made Intel notice and try to innovate again!!!!!

This does not address the role of scalpers during the last couple years..
 
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Stevemeister

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"which the company says infuses up to 15% more gaming performance. Those chips arrive next year, but we aren't sure if the performance gains will apply to games." . . .. .err who writes this stuff and who proof reads it. AMD state it will improve gaming performance 15% . . . .but the the comment states we aren't sure if the performance gains will apply to games !!!!
 
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When Ryzen 5000 came out it was the fastest thing available.
So AMD priced it accordingly.
It became the "IN" thing. Everyone had to have it for bragging rights. Which outstripped supply and prices went up.
Normal Supply/Demand economy.
Plus Ryzen5000+ is around the corner to take the gaming lead back by a small margin if all the rumors are true.
Ryzen 5000 is now "out" and Intel 12 series is the top dog for the moment.
Retailers will adjust prices accordingly.
So prices for parts change again as supply/demand determines.
Aren't we lucky that AMD's advancements have made Intel notice and try to innovate again!!!!!

This does not address the role of scalpers during the last couple years..
So when is that AMD Ryzen cpu price drop going to happen?

AMD Ryzen 5 3600 $241.35
 
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Don't forget to add in the prices of the rest of the build, NVME, SSD, HD (maybe), PSU, Case, CPU cooler, and the real killer at ridiculous prices is the GPU, by that time your well on your way to a $3000+ system AMD or Intel, I personally would not pay $1000+ on any GPU that's just insane, even $700 for any GPU is pushing it, these days $500 would be the most I'd consider paying for a GPU a (3070), and less for any GPUs below that.
The 12700K comes with integrated graphics something to consider when factoring in the current gpu prices. Looks like Alder Lake wins in that dept. also.
 
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"which the company says infuses up to 15% more gaming performance. Those chips arrive next year, but we aren't sure if the performance gains will apply to games." . . .. .err who writes this stuff and who proof reads it. AMD state it will improve gaming performance 15% . . . .but the the comment states we aren't sure if the performance gains will apply to games !!!!
Well AMD claimed 15% average....out of 5 games, that's the whole of the information we have about that, zero claims for productivity and only 5 games tested.
So the article is right in doubting if it will be 15% across a wider board of games.
And yes, it's really badly worded though.
 
Reactions: rtoaht
As per the other comparison, you can get away with way less cooling with AMD CPUs and keep 95%+ of the performance (if not 100%). This has to be factored into the price comparison and it is not. It baffles me Tom's thinks these CPUs have the same cooling requirements, but aren't testing temperatures and power draw across the board. Why not make an article about it and see what works and how well it works for these CPUs and remove the speculation?

Anyway, I don't disagree the 12700K is a nice and interesting CPU, but as per usual you're doing a disservice to people by not putting all sides on the analysis.

Also, I wouldn't say PCIe5 is an advantage for Intel just now and it's more of a whish for the future. Low end Z690 boards don't have mux'es to make the GPU lane split into the PCIe x1 or x4 slots and use DMI instead, so good luck with the NVMe's working at full speed. Also, I haven't seen any rumours (even) of GPUs moving to PCIe5, not even Intel's. Maybe that's 2 gens in the future?

Oh welp.

Regards.
 
As per the other comparison, you can get away with way less cooling with AMD CPUs and keep 95%+ of the performance (if not 100%). This has to be factored into the price comparison and it is not. It baffles me Tom's thinks these CPUs have the same cooling requirements, but aren't testing temperatures and power draw across the board.
If you use the same amount of power for both then intel is actually about 10 degrees cooler than zen and is as much faster as the 5900x as it is slower than the 5950x

If you only play games intel will use far less power and be much cooler than zen and won't lose any performance compared to full pl2.
https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.php/artikel/hardware/prozessoren/57430-core-i9-12900k-und-core-i5-12600k-hybrid-desktop-cpus-alder-lake-im-test.html?start=8
 
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wifiburger

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Only a fool would pay that much for an old CPU. The 5600x is only a bit more for a decent increase in performance. https://www.microcenter.com/product/630285/amd-ryzen-5-5600x-vermeer-37ghz-6-core-am4-boxed-processor-wraith-stealth-cooler-included
That 5600x you linked is unavailable online as in walk in only. Seeing how there's less than a dozen US states that have a Micro Center then best to save your money and get a cheaper cpu w/ integrated graphics.

https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i5-11400-core-i5-11th-gen/p/N82E16819118241
Intel Core i5-11400 $189.98
 
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Reactions: rtoaht
Only a fool would pay that much for an old CPU. The 5600x is only a bit more for a decent increase
what's that, Zen2 is 2year old ?

I would say you're a fool for buying a 5600x which is now 1year+ old & overpriced even with discounts !
Are you actually saying that a 3600x for $242 is a better deal than a 5600x for $276? Lol
 

zoridon

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That 5600x you linked is unavailable online as in walk in only. Seeing how there's less than a dozen US states that have a Micro Center then best to save your money and get a cheaper cpu w/ integrated graphics.

https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i5-11400-core-i5-11th-gen/p/N82E16819118241
Intel Core i5-11400 $189.98
I agree, the 11400 is a great chip for the price and is should be the basis for a mid range gaming machine. Use the money saved to get a GPU even a used one in this market. For example a used GTX 1070 goes for about 425 on Ebay a GTX 1070TI for about 475 maybe 500 which would be a good match. You could build a decent gaming rig for about $1000.00 after figuring in the other components. and play 1440p or lower easily.
 
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If you use the same amount of power for both then intel is actually about 10 degrees cooler than zen and is as much faster as the 5900x as it is slower than the 5950x

If you only play games intel will use far less power and be much cooler than zen and won't lose any performance compared to full pl2.
https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.php/artikel/hardware/prozessoren/57430-core-i9-12900k-und-core-i5-12600k-hybrid-desktop-cpus-alder-lake-im-test.html?start=8
I can see German is not your primary language, but please at least use Google translate to read what that data is telling you...

The Cinebench graph is telling you how much work the CPUs do per unit of power used, or so the label says: "Multi-threaded power per watt". Meaning, even at 125W, the 12900K is less efficient than the 5950X, but we all knew that already. As for the temperature, while Ryzen does look hotter, it is not by a mile (10°C is not a lot, fortunately using the Dark Rock) and if you're going to be limiting performance due to power draw or temps, well, may as well not use that CPU in the first place. In any case, this is irrelevant to the article's context as they're comparing the 12700K and 5900X/5800X. Keep in mind AMD CPUs can also be run at 65W or 95W TDP ranges with no problems and become even more efficient.

Please, have a look here for what I mean:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vex9_84VpYs&t=507s


You cannot use a cooler you could perfectly use with the 5600X or even 5800X for the 12700K or the 12900K and the 12600K you can use with some asterisks. But as I said, for the purpose of this article, this is information they're not including, hence my critique.

Regards.
 

Makaveli

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The only time AMD is a better deal than Intel atm is if someone already owns a Ryzen compatible AMD board and even then it's a tough call.
Not a tough call at all if you are on AM4 its a drop in replacement without changing anything.

Rebuilding your rig for 10-15% performance doesn't make sense to me.
 
I can see German is not your primary language, but please at least use Google translate to read what that data is telling you...

The Cinebench graph is telling you how much work the CPUs do per unit of power used, or so the label says: "Multi-threaded power per watt". Meaning, even at 125W, the 12900K is less efficient than the 5950X, but we all knew that already.
Did I argue that?
Yes the 5950x is like 12% more efficient in cinebench, so 10 degrees higher temps is not much but 12% higher efficiency is huge?
(At a max temp of 100 degrees 10 degrees is 10% )
As for the temperature, while Ryzen does look hotter, it is not by a mile (10°C is not a lot, fortunately using the Dark Rock) and if you're going to be limiting performance due to power draw or temps, well, may as well not use that CPU in the first place.
Then why would you prefer a ryzen CPU? Those are limited to 140W so they are limited in performance due to power draw and that of course amd is doing because of the higher temps.
On intel it's a choice if you want to limit or go with the max they let you on ryzen you are forced below a very low limit.
You cannot use a cooler you could perfectly use with the 5600X or even 5800X for the 12700K or the 12900K and the 12600K you can use with some asterisks. But as I said, for the purpose of this article, this is information they're not including, hence my critique.
Yes you can even on the 12900k because you can use it at 125W and it will still be faster than even the 5900x and also cooler.
So the temps on the 12900k won't be 67 degrees but 80 or even 90, it would still be cooler than ryzen under the same power and the same cooler.
 
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btmedic04

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Come on tomshardware, you can't use 1k unit pricing for the 12700k, amd msrp for the 5900x and some random price for the 5800x for price comparisons. It's not standardized and makes you look amateurish at best and incompetent and or biased at worst. A quick check on amazon shows that the cheapest 12700k is $446 while the 5800x is $341 as of this post. Pick one price source, be it msrp or amazon/pcpartpicker and use it for all products in the comparison.

Did I argue that?
Yes the 5950x is like 12% more efficient in cinebench, so 10 degrees higher temps is not much but 12% higher efficiency is huge?
(At a max temp of 100 degrees 10 degrees is 10% )

Then why would you prefer a ryzen CPU? Those are limited to 140W so they are limited in performance due to power draw and that of course amd is doing because of the higher temps.
On intel it's a choice if you want to limit or go with the max they let you on ryzen you are forced below a very low limit.

Yes you can even on the 12900k because you can use it at 125W and it will still be faster than even the 5900x and also cooler.
So the temps on the 12900k won't be 67 degrees but 80 or even 90, it would still be cooler than ryzen under the same power and the same cooler.
You obviously are not familiar with ryzen or the am4 platform as a whole. The 142w limit has nothing to do with cpu temps. It's a limit imposed on the socket itself in bios that is easily surpassed if you go into pbo settings, set PPT, EDC and TDC to higher values, add +200mhz to pbo limit and find the optimal negative offset in curve optimizer for your specific cpu. With these adjustments, my 5900x regularly boosts to 5.15ghz, but it completely blows up power consumption. Temps peak at 80c then settle down to low to mid 70s under water cooling. I'm sure I'd see similar speeds and temps on the second 5900x I purchased a couple of days ago that's under an arctic cooling liquid freezer ii 280mm in my mitx build.

Why did I pick up a second 5900x after Alder lake? Because it was $470 at my local microcenter and I already had an AM4 mitx system. In order to do a 12600k/mitx rebuild, I would have spent north of $700 if I got lucky with getting the only mitx board with ddr4 support (gigabyte, eeew.) The cost would've been well north of $1000 for the only ddr5 mitx board with the cheapest 32gb kit of ddr5 (assuming it was actually in stock.)
 
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Come on tomshardware, you can't use 1k unit pricing for the 12700k, amd msrp for the 5900x and some random price for the 5800x for price comparisons. It's not standardized and makes you look amateurish at best and incompetent and or biased at worst. A quick check on amazon shows that the cheapest 12700k is $446 while the 5800x is $341 as of this post. Pick one price source, be it msrp or amazon/pcpartpicker and use it for all products in the comparison.
AMD prices, for the 5900x it's $550 and for the 5800x it's $450.
These are the official prices and tom's uses the official prices for intel as well as for amd.

Retailers like amazon trying to get rid of old stock has very little to do with official pricing.
You obviously are not familiar with ryzen or the am4 platform as a whole. The 142w limit has nothing to do with cpu temps. It's a limit imposed on the socket itself in bios that is easily surpassed if you go into pbo settings, set PPT, EDC and TDC to higher values, add +200mhz to pbo limit and find the optimal negative offset in curve optimizer for your specific cpu. With these adjustments, my 5900x regularly boosts to 5.15ghz, but it completely blows up power consumption. Temps peak at 80c then settle down to low to mid 70s under water cooling. I'm sure I'd see similar speeds and temps on the second 5900x I purchased a couple of days ago that's under an arctic cooling liquid freezer ii 280mm in my mitx build.
That's my point, amd is limiting the cpus to 141 because otherwise you need good water cooling to still peak at 80.
Intel is limiting the 12900k to 125w for the exact same reasons, but they also allow you to pump 240w into it without losing your warranty because that's how confident they are in their product.
 
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escksu

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I like how you put "aside" the latest price drops for Zen3, like they don't matter and people are idiots and don't buy at lower prices...

Presumably we are all buying Zen3 at the highest prices, right, not when they are low?

12700k is one of the best from Alder Lake (actually better and makes more sense than 12900k), yeah ok, but NO, it does not win on pricing, not with these new Zen3 price drops. And there will be more, Zen3D is coming.

As for performance, sure it wins on average, but by a small margin (because there are games where Zen3 wins too), one that is not that impressive at all, unless you cherry pick specific games... but then again you can do that with Zen3 too, so that's that.

As for the gains in efficiency and power consumption with Alder Lake, I LOL-ed hard. It's pathetic vs Zen3 and if Zen3D manages +15% perf on average at the same efficiency, Alder Lake is gonna look even more pathetic.
The new Zen3D is just the same with more cache. More L3 cache can only improve performance under certain circumstances but it cannot overcome core deficiency... Right now, even if you throw power out of the window and oc ryzen to the max, it still cannot match alderlake......
 
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