Review Intel Core i9-12900K and Core i5-12600K Review: Retaking the Gaming Crown

Alvar "Miles" Udell

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I'm not so sure it will be a short crown retaking. AMD hasn't shown any indication yet they are officially reducing prices to compete, and with Zen 3+ likely to be more expensive than Zen 3, it may be quite the role reversal with Intel the best value. When Zen 4 becomes widely available in 2023 who knows, but as it stands I'd have a tough time recommending AMD over Intel at this point.
 
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VforV

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LMAO, 29 days ago this same guy had this article:
Intel Core i9-12900K vs Ryzen 9 5900X and 5950X: Alder Lake and Ryzen 5000 Face Off

Now he has a "review" of them. Pffft.

Why don't you do another "review" again in 1 month, since intel does not have enough promo pieces already...

P.S. Even with the exaggerated positive press Alder Lake had and has, still is not selling great... Still I see their CPUs in stock at better prices than Ryzen and not moving that stock. I find it hilarious.
 
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m3city

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I just don't get it. Maybe I just can't find the right numbers. Maybe I'm cherry picking but when I see:
5900 vs 12900, CPU price somewhat similar.

Cruncher multi 100W@37sec, 170W@107s. Single thread shows better Intel.
Handbrake x264 4 renders vs 3 renders, 130W vs 213W, 151s vs 262s.
Noted, Intel has iGPU - thats BIG, at least for me.

Better CPU overall? As I said, I just don't see it. Intel is bigger, stronger. Not a better athlete at all.
 
I do not know what the others are on about. The new Alder lake CPU's are objectively better at more things than AMDs offerings are vs Alder lake. @VforV Anyone could argue the same about positive press for the zen 1 and 2 products. Personally I am just happy some semblance of competition is back. If you are looking at this with anything other than it being a win for consumers, than you've got brand loyalties that may make you buy into objectively worse hardware. Intel also comes in cheaper at most all price points (with exception to some whole platform considerations).
 
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VforV

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I do not know what the others are on about. The new Alder lake CPU's are objectively better at more things than AMDs offerings are vs Alder lake. @VforV Anyone could argue the same about positive press for the zen 1 and 2 products. Personally I am just happy some semblance of competition is back. If you are looking at this with anything other than it being a win for consumers, than you've got brand loyalties that may make you buy into objectively worse hardware. Intel also comes in cheaper at most all price points (with exception to some whole platform considerations).
I'm glad for competition, but no Alder Lake is not an outstanding success beating Zen3 from A to Z and at everything and anything. Far from that...

Like nvidia, intel too has to win back a lot of good will before I even care about them, after all the **** they done in the last 7 or so years.

I rather buy an inferior product than step over my principles and dignity and s*** up to those 2 companies and give them my money for a minority performance advantage (at a point in time). Nvidia is actually worse than intel, but intel is bad enough still.

Coming Zen3D, interest in Alder Lake will drop even more (it already has worse sales than predicted/wanted).

Yes, competition is good, but only because it pushes AMD to be even better than if they did not have at all. That's the only part I care about.
 
I'm glad for competition, but no Alder Lake is not an outstanding success beating Zen3 from A to Z and at everything and anything. Far from that...

Like nvidia, intel too has to win back a lot of good will before I even care about them, after all the **** they done in the last 7 or so years.

I rather buy an inferior product than step over my principles and dignity and s*** up to those 2 companies and give them my money for a minority performance advantage (at a point in time). Nvidia is actually worse than intel, but intel is bad enough still.

Coming Zen3D, interest in Alder Lake will drop even more (it already has worse sales than predicted/wanted).

Yes, competition is good, but only because it pushes AMD to be even better than if they did not have at all. That's the only part I care about.
I can respect your opinion, but I disagree. In my opinion companies all do what they can to stay as profitable as they can. Consumer "goodwill" is just another currency these large multinational companies spend and receive for various conduct. AMD currently has a decent amount of goodwill, however, they spent a major chunk of it by not releasing a 5600, 5300, 5700 / 5800 while also increasing prices by 50 dollars across the board. They did this for money and they knew they could get away with it because they had garnered enough consumer goodwill.
 
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VforV

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I can respect your opinion, but I disagree. In my opinion companies all do what they can to stay as profitable as then can. Consumer "goodwill" is just another currency these large multinational companies spend and receive for various conduct. AMD currently has a decent amount of goodwill, however, they spent a major chunk of it by not releasing a 5600, 5300, 5700 / 5800 while also increasing prices by 50 dollars across the board. They did this for money and they knew they could get away with it because they had garnered enough consumer goodwill.
There is no innocent company, AMD included. I also don't like those same things you stated about AMD that they did recently, but compared to nvidia and intel (on topic), the amount of scummy or s* things AMD did is almost meaningless.

... so far. And that is what matters to me. It's not like I'm losing so much performance if I use AMD, like it was the case 5-7 years ago, they are either on top or very close to the top, depending on the generation.
 

VforV

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If you want a site that writes articles that only conform to your personal philosophical ideals, you'll need to start up VsHardware.com. It's not the job of a reviewer to review CPUs based on who "deserves" anything, but what the performances are.
Sure, I'd love to see that professional impartiality from all the tech sites and YT channels, but the reality is so much different than these utopian journalism rules... which almost no one cares about or abides by them anymore. The trend is actually in the opposite direction.

So in that regard, in a perfect world you would be right.

Then I am also right when I say, everyone that buys a product does it based on it's own preference and subjective feeling and beliefs towards that product.

Thus, we all give or money to those that we think they deserve out money. And we don't give to those that don't.

Which means I don't give my money to those companies that do NOT: in this case, intel and nvidia. At least not until they prove they are atoning for all the s* they did up until now and start to do better. But if they never change and keep doing s*, then it's a no from me. It's as simple as that and I don't see a problem with this whatsoever. I may be in a minority thinking like this, but I know I'm not the only one.
 

dish_moose

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I do not know what the others are on about. The new Alder lake CPU's are objectively better at more things than AMDs offerings are vs Alder lake. @VforV Anyone could argue the same about positive press for the zen 1 and 2 products. Personally I am just happy some semblance of competition is back. If you are looking at this with anything other than it being a win for consumers, than you've got brand loyalties that may make you buy into objectively worse hardware. Intel also comes in cheaper at most all price points (with exception to some whole platform considerations).
I still feel Intel won't truly be on top until they get back in the node race. The current lineup reminds me of Intel pre Core II when cranking up the frequency on an inefficient node to get performance was the end game. If you want all the performance out of the latest Intel offering, there better be a good cooler!
-Bruce
 

DSzymborski

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Sure, I'd love to see that professional impartiality from all the tech sites and YT channels, but the reality is so much different than these utopian journalism rules... which almost no one cares about or abides by them anymore. The trend is actually in the opposite direction.
So, since you don't respect what journalism becomes, you demand that Tom's Hardware writes become what you don't respect? It's a rather odd position to take.

We don't do the Intel/AMD or Nvidia/AMD flame war things in our threads here.
 
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VforV

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So, since you don't respect what journalism becomes, you demand that Tom's Hardware writes become what you don't respect? It's a rather odd position to take.
What? How exactly did you understand that?

I don't "respect" that journalism has become unprofessional and more promo pieces than anything else, yes... but where did I "demanded" that Tom's should become that?

If I don't like that, why would I demand that? I never said such thing and I don't see how you understood that... You understood the opposite, read again.
 

larkspur

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Now he has a "review" of them. Pffft.

Why don't you do another "review" again in 1 month, since intel does not have enough promo pieces already...
This is a repost of the exact same review that was published on Nov 4th. For some reason the original review was posted in the "News" section instead of the "Reviews" section. Methinks this is just a 'bump' to bring the most relevant CPU review currently back to the front page.
Coming Zen3D, interest in Alder Lake will drop even more (it already has worse sales than predicted/wanted).
Were some numbers published somewhere about k-series AL predicted vs actual sales for the first month of availability? Just curious where you got that info.

Anyway, I think interest in Zen3/3D vs AL might be further influenced with the "AM4 is a dead socket" mentality. It's already somewhat of a factor since it appears high-end Raptor Lake will have additional e cores which will likely eliminate the MT wins for the 5950x. Interest in AL will definitely increase with the release of the more affordable chipsets, increases in DDR5 supply for the high-end, and especially the release of non-k AL SKUs for the low-end. I see little reason why the budget AL SKUs won't sell relatively well. But anyway, we will see what the price/perf is when Zen 3D comes out. It could be well worth building a new system on a "dead" platform. But as you have espoused many times, ability to upgrade is a factor for some folks.
 
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VforV

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This is a repost of the exact same review that was published on Nov 4th. For some reason the original review was posted in the "News" section instead of the "Reviews" section. Methinks this is just a 'bump' to bring the most relevant CPU review currently back to the front page.

Were some numbers published somewhere about k-series AL predicted vs actual sales for the first month of availability? Just curious where you got that info.

Anyway, I think interest in Zen3/3D vs AL might be further influenced with the "AM4 is a dead socket" mentality. It's already somewhat of a factor since it appears high-end Raptor Lake will have additional e cores which will likely eliminate the MT wins for the 5950x. Interest in AL will definitely increase with the release of the more affordable chipsets, increases in DDR5 supply for the high-end, and especially the release of non-k AL SKUs for the low-end. I see little reason why the budget AL SKUs won't sell relatively well. But anyway, we will see what the price/perf is when Zen 3D comes out. It could be well worth building a new system on a "dead" platform. But as you have espoused many times, ability to upgrade is a factor for some folks.
I didn't see any numbers for predictions for AL sales, that's internal info owned by intel, but it's a pretty obvious deduction based on logic when you see the newest CPUs staying in stock even at better prices than the competition after they were lauded by all the tech press... I mean it's a no brainier that it's not selling like hot cakes...
Zen3 was selling much better at launch.

Considering Zen3 is still selling ok now after 1 year, I think the "AM4 is a dead socket" mentality is not really an issue for AMD and it will also not be one for Zen3D.

The thing is that the upgrade path that Zen has on AM4 is so good, so easy and you can really get many good deals, which makes it much better than building an entire new system with all the issue and quirks and drawbacks (and extra cost) that AL has now...

AMD's strategy for 2022 is simple and understandable: Zen3D with DDR4 support for budget oriented people (but no slouch) and Zen4 with DDR5 for premium users and best performance.

I'm pretty sure anyone buying a Zen3D (or Zen3 now) can use those CPUs for years without feeling left in the dust in performance metrics. Not everyone wants/likes to upgrade every year and not everyone wants to be a beta tester for a new platform. Anyway there will be options for all tiers and prices between Zen3D and Zen4.
 

mitko

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Regarding the PCIe lanes supported by the new CPUs the article says:
Alder Lake chips expose up to 16 lanes of PCIe 5.0 (technically for storage and graphics only, no networking devices)...
Could someone please elaborate on the networking device support? Why would the PCIe not support network devices? Could you point to an official source of this info? (I couldn't find any mention on this on Intel's website).

I was hoping to pair a 12600K (using the integrated graphics) with this NIC from Intel, which uses 16xPCIe4 lanes:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/192560/intel-ethernet-network-adapter-e810xxvda4/specifications.html
Would this not work for some reason?

Any pointers to more details are much appreciated, thanks.
 

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