News Intel Drops DirectX 9 Support On Xe, Arc GPUs, Switches to DirectX 12 Emulation

Well, at least when the hook is done at the game level there's a lot of performance benefits. This is without touching the game code, so it's good.

I'd actually love if AMD would do this, since their DX9, DX10 and even DX11 often have very underwhelming performance. Maybe they're already doing it, I don't know.

Regards.
 
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Intel has made the decision to remove native DirectX 9 support from its latest Xe iGPs and Arc GPUs, and replace DX9 with DX12 emulation instead.

Intel Drops DirectX 9 Support On Xe, Arc GPUs, Switches to DirectX 12 Emulation : Read more
Are you guys letting AI write these stories?!
They are replacing Dx9 with emulation of it (dx9) on dx12, not with emulation of dx12 which is what you have written.
with DX9 optimizations "outsourced" to Microsoft entirely.
MS is outsourcing it to the community though.
No that it matters because this is just a translation of all dx9 commands into things that Dx12 can run. They might find a few tricks to use fewer dx12 commands to emulate some dx9 stuff but the difference should be minimal no matter what they do.
Why open source?
The D3D9On12 mapping layer is included as an operating system component of Windows 10. Over the years and Windows 10 releases, it has grown in functionality, to the point where it is a complete and relatively performant implementation of a D3D9 driver. We are choosing to release the source to this component for two primary reasons:

  1. To enable the community to contribute bugfixes and further performance improvements, which will improve the stability and performance of Windows 10. See CONTRIBUTING.
It is very doubtful that this will increase Dx9 performance since the bad performance comes from lack of hardware resources needed to run that old code and those will not magically appear just because dx12 is used.
It's not like they turn old games into dx12 versions of that game.

If it does use the CPU, as mentioned in the article, it might increase performance in some things but there is nothing mentioned on the MS link of that being the case.
 
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Are you guys letting AI write these stories?!
They are replacing Dx9 with emulation of it (dx9) on dx12, not with emulation of dx12 which is what you have written.

MS is outsourcing it to the community though.
No that it matters because this is just a translation of all dx9 commands into things that Dx12 can run. They might find a few tricks to use fewer dx12 commands to emulate some dx9 stuff but the difference should be minimal no matter what they do.


It is very doubtful that this will increase Dx9 performance since the bad performance comes from lack of hardware resources needed to run that old code and those will not magically appear just because dx12 is used.
It's not like they turn old games into dx12 versions of that game.

If it does use the CPU, as mentioned in the article, it might increase performance in some things but there is nothing mentioned on the MS link of that being the case.
The word emulation, implies the DX9 conversion.
 
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InvalidError

Titan
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Intel on the contrary, only has experience with DirectX 9 on its integrated graphics, which does not translate into experience with its much higher performing discrete graphics.
Intel did have some decently fast IGPs when it did Iris Pro with eDRAM. The next iteration of that will come when we get IGP tiles/chiplets with 1-4GB of eDRAM and 100+GB/s access to system memory. At that point, IGPs will be every bit as serious business as low-to-mid range dGPUs today.
 
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blppt

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Well, at least when the hook is done at the game level there's a lot of performance benefits. This is without touching the game code, so it's good.

I'd actually love if AMD would do this, since their DX9, DX10 and even DX11 often have very underwhelming performance. Maybe they're already doing it, I don't know.

Regards.
AMD's recent driver updates have bumped DX11 performance significantly, i've found. Almost to Nvidia's level.

I do like the idea of the "wrapper" being integrated into the drivers---just about every game i've ever tried works better with the dxvk wrapper than native dx9 or even dx11 in some cases (on AMD). And that was written for linux---that it works on Windows at all is pretty cool.
 

InvalidError

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isnt the rumor of Zen4 igpu similar to low end gpu?
AFAIK, there will be a basic IGP worse than AMD's current ones for office-like environments where you need little more than video outputs and a "big IGP" which may be aiming as high as the current 60-tier, though I think something between the RX6500 and RTX3050 is a more realistic expectations ceiling. I expect a spicy price tag on those.
 

escksu

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I am fine with that. Only very old games will require Dx9 to run. Bascially every game in the market for past several years are already on Dx11/12/Vulkan. Old game thats still around (like those MMOs) have already been updated to at least Dx11.
 
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KyaraM

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This sounds like a pretty good move by Intel, honestly. Should open up resources for other areas that are, frankly, more important than such an aged API.

I am fine with that. Only very old games will require Dx9 to run. Bascially every game in the market for past several years are already on Dx11/12/Vulkan. Old game thats still around (like those MMOs) have already been updated to at least Dx11.
Eh, kinda. Several of them can still be ran on DX9, like FFXIV (though it's not developed further and might just break one day, it's essentially legacy support), BDO (no clue how such old GPUs should ever run it, though...), and even GW2 (here, DX11 is still in beta afaik, ut I didn'tlog in in quite a while now so I'm not sure). And that's only some of the bigger ones, I'm sure there are still some older MMOs out there running on DX9 (Runes of Magic, maybe? Not seen much of that game in ages, honestly, so can't tell) and that aren't big enough to redevelop like the examples above, of which some, as stated, are just now implementing it at all.

This is, in general, a really good move to cover their butts, however. Pretty sure most people won't care how, just that their old game(s) still run on those cards.
 
Eh, Im not liking that, DX9 is still used for more than people think, I mean if it has some sort of DX9 emulation even if DX9 performance was not great, at least it supports it, and most games that do use DX9 the card should still get good performance even if its not comparable to the Nvidia equivalent.
 
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david germain

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this is all well and good. but games still have option to disable DX12 as half the time it does not work on modern cards that are DX12 native.
my working process is - update game enable DX12 random crashes, disable DX12, everything works again.
 
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AMD's recent driver updates have bumped DX11 performance significantly, i've found. Almost to Nvidia's level.

I do like the idea of the "wrapper" being integrated into the drivers---just about every game i've ever tried works better with the dxvk wrapper than native dx9 or even dx11 in some cases (on AMD). And that was written for linux---that it works on Windows at all is pretty cool.
I have seen it. Particularly, I was blown away by Guild Wars 2's engine move to DX11 and how amazingly well it runs now, even surpassing the DX12 plugin (https://github.com/megai2/d912pxy/wiki).

Thing is, not many developers will go back and actually revamp their game engines just to accommodate hardware vendors (unless, ehem, heavily incentivised), so I would not count on it. Games developed natively in DX11 that run bad, they'll continue to run bad until they get a revamping patch or they get plugins that use DX12 instead. I think that's the point I'm making. Also, as mentioned above, that's something nVidia or AMD may not want to include into their long list of worries. This extra layer is much a "case by case" situation and they will break games, or introduce glitches. Much like dxvk in Linux, even in Windows these are not free of glitches or quirks.

EDIT: I forgot to add I'm not saying this because I don't want to see it, but I can understand why AMD or nVidia wouldn't want to do it. I still would love to see it as an alternative in the driver package. Something like "turn on DX12/Vulkan wrapper" in a game by game config. AMD already can do this with a lot of things, so adding this would be "chef kiss", even with all the caveats it brings.

Regards.
 
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Hope this works similar to a translation layer like DXVK/dgvoodoo2. I currently use dgvoodoo2 to benefit from Windows 11’s AutoHDR on a few old DX9 titles.
 

watzupken

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Even if they lose 30% performance, a game written for dx9 era hardware should be pretty easy to run on modern stuff.
I just want to see Arc out there already. Quick fixes are the fixes needed at this point.
I agree on both points. DX9 games should have no problem running at very high framerates with current gen of GPUs, so even if we are looking at a performance lost due to emulation, it should still maintain high FPS. The only problem is the hardware which remains a vaporware. A lot of information about it, but when it comes to the actual product, its nowhere to be found.
 

watzupken

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Eh, Im not liking that, DX9 is still used for more than people think, I mean if it has some sort of DX9 emulation even if DX9 performance was not great, at least it supports it, and most games that do use DX9 the card should still get good performance even if its not comparable to the Nvidia equivalent.
Just as you mentioned, you have options. If you think that DX9 is crucial for you, then you can always avoid Intel's graphic solution. Having said that, DX9 games should run at high FPS with any current gen mid tier GPU. So I believe even if you run into penalty due to emulation, it should still run well. If anything, I feel that all DX9 titles should be CPU bound since they were not designed to utilized high core counts avail by current CPUs.
 
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mo_osk

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Honestly I doubt performance will ever be a real issues with how old dx9 games and applications are. It become rather a question of stability, as in actually launching the game. And if the emulation renders an image of a similar qualities.

I also wonder if the emulation pass could not be used to inject some modern dx12 effect into older games.
 
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InvalidError

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I also wonder if the emulation pass could not be used to inject some modern dx12 effect into older games.
Emulation is a misnomer here: most of the 9-to-12 "emulation" does little more than translating DX9 calls to DX12 while abstracting away the additional bookkeeping, similar to WoW64 to run Win32 apps in a 64bits environment.

As for "injecting DX12 effects" in old games, almost anything is possible when sufficiently skilled fans are willing to go that deep into modding.
 

mo_osk

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Mods like reshade use screenspace data to apply filters. You can do a lot with that but its inherently limited by the information present in screenspace. You can't do stuff like TAA or a true global illumination for example. I don't think TAA or GI would necessarily be possible to implement with that technique, let alone that intel would allows modders to change the way DX9 calls are interpreted, but maybe there are others presentations features that could be implementated easily once DX9 is translated into DX12. And maybe could be toggled on or off from the driver's menus. Someone else was speaking about using the auto hdr feature of windows for example.
 

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