News Intel, Frore Systems Want to Move Beyond Fans With Solid-State Cooling Chip

[Admin]

Frore Systems has created the worlds first solid state cooling solution, that is more efficient than fan based cooling systems in laptops.

Intel, Frore Systems Want to Move Beyond Fans With Solid-State Cooling Chip : Read more

 

[Deleted member 431422]

The first thing that comes to mind is "dust". How resistant the design is to dust build up and how resilient are the membranes to compressed air.

 

[ravewulf]

Putting the intake and exhaust right next to each other could recirculate the hot air back into the system if they aren't careful about the design

 

[nightbird321]

Is it cat and dog safe? lol

 

[Blitz Hacker]

The first thing that comes to mind is "dust". How resistant the design is to dust build up and how resilient are the membranes to compressed air.

First thing I thought of aswell. . air thru small channels.. there is going to have to be some very very good filtering for the intake to ensure these don't clog. Interested in the concept but wondering if it was designed in a vacuum or has more real world practical applications.

 

[rluker5]

Four air jet mini's for four watts wouldn't be very efficient if it used that much all of the time.
I don't see anything about power scaling. If they stopped functioning at lower power levels and needed that continuous 4w I could see them using more power than some of the mobile CPUs they are trying to cool over time. And be usually louder than the fan based solution.

But they do look like they will be somewhat quieter if they can work with reduced power and airflow to them.

 

[Peter Patel-Schneider]

I see claims that doubling heat dissipation from 10W to 20W doubles performance. Is that actually the case with any current laptop CPUs? Most current laptop CPUs? Any current laptop systems? Most current laptop systems?

 

[jp7189]

I see claims that doubling heat dissipation from 10W to 20W doubles performance. Is that actually the case with any current laptop CPUs? Most current laptop CPUs? Any current laptop systems? Most current laptop systems?

Many small systems have their power limits and clocks down tuned to match the cooling system. I believe they are saying a system builder would have the leeway to increase performance in a new design if they chose - not that it would insta double an existing system.

 

[Peter Patel-Schneider]

Many small systems have their power limits and clocks down tuned to match the cooling system. I believe they are saying a system builder would have the leeway to increase performance in a new design if they chose - not that it would insta double an existing system.

Yes, but even if the system is has a different CPU from the same generation and maybe even better memory will doubling available CPU power double performance?

 

[kjfatl]

There is no mention of the expected life of the cooling device. No mention of live leads me to believe it may be significantly lower than the life of a standard heat sink cooling pipe and fan. It's a great concept if it actually works, but it is still a mechanical device just like the flat speakers that were the rage a few years ago. What happened to them?

 

[jp7189]

Yes, but even if the system is has a different CPU from the same generation and maybe even better memory will doubling available CPU power double performance?

Yes. Even with the same CPU. At that end of the power/performance curve, the performance scaling is fairly linear.

 

[edzieba]

Four air jet mini's for four watts wouldn't be very efficient if it used that much all of the time.
I don't see anything about power scaling. If they stopped functioning at lower power levels and needed that continuous 4w I could see them using more power than some of the mobile CPUs they are trying to cool over time. And be usually louder than the fan based solution.

But they do look like they will be somewhat quieter if they can work with reduced power and airflow to them.

Power (and acoustic) scaling graphs are in the datasheets on their website.

Interestingly this does not appear to the the normal ultrasonic 'flapping ribbon' air pump that are already in existence and in use (making their claim of "first solid state thermal solution" false), but instead one or more porous membranes that pump small pulses of air as they oscillate (possible some sort of EAP to vary pore size during oscillation for a net pressure gradient).

 

[Giroro]

I disagree that a "vibrating membrane" qualifies as "solid state". It has moving parts.

Otherwise, there's good reasons that we traditionally cool things with fans instead of speakers. For starters, the part where this thing's power consumption is 20% of its cooling capacity.

Also, the "pro" branding is cliche and annoying.

 

[bit_user]

There is no mention of the expected life of the cooling device. No mention of live leads me to believe it may be significantly lower than the life of a standard heat sink cooling pipe and fan.

I suspect it's MEMS-based, like the micromirror array technology in DLP projectors. Dead pixels notwithstanding, those have a decently long life, considering the hot bulb shining directly at them.

I'd be keen to know some more details. I'm sure all of their patents are filed, so I don't see a good reason for them not to be more forthcoming about how the transducers work.

 

[bit_user]

Power (and acoustic) scaling graphs are in the datasheets on their website.

Thanks for mentioning this, but no thanks for not including a link!
: (

Website: https://www.froresystems.com/

Power/Performance data: https://uploads-ssl.webflow.com/638...9f00885d100bb84d_AirJet Tablet Case Study.pdf

(possible some sort of EAP to vary pore size during oscillation for a net pressure gradient).

Don't presume any of us know what you mean by EAP.

 

[bit_user]

I disagree that a "vibrating membrane" qualifies as "solid state". It has moving parts.

If it's MEMS-based, then it's indeed not solid-state in the purest sense. However, what we really care about are things like durability, efficiency, size, weight, cost, and noise. So, I wouldn't get hung up on the solid-state thing. Plus, if you're starting with a mechanical solution, then you don't really need to replace it with a completely non-mechanical one. All it really needs to be is a better mechanical solution, and that's enough.

For starters, the part where this thing's power consumption is 20% of its cooling capacity.

How much power do equivalent laptop fans use, at peak output?

Two things:

1. Comparing their mini vs. pro, the latter has twice the cooling capacity at less than 2x the power consumption, which shows it scales well. And the Pro actually consumes 16.6% of the power it dissipates, at 10.5 W of dissipation.
2. If you look at the PDF link I posed above, you can see that their cooling solution scales somewhat linearly in power used vs. dissipated. Towards the low end, they claim it can dissipate 6.25 W while using only 0.5 W, which is a mere 8%.

Also, the "pro" branding is cliche and annoying.

I'll grant you that.

 

[Geef]

There is one other thing about that kind of cooling.

PRICE.

Have you ever looked online for Bladeless fan vs Normal fan? Some people won't mind but it is one of those charges that makes laptops more expensive.