[SOLVED] Intel i5-13400F or i5-13600KF - - Price to performance ?

[will2power]

I decided to go with Intel new i5 CPUs as they give options for future upgrades. I plan on using the CPU for a long time for photo editing/ graphic work and possible 3D

In Japan the i5-13400F I can get for around 28,000 yen around 210USD, the 13600F comes in at around 330USD. Is the more than 50% increase worth it considering the performance boost?

I am not a gamer, I would like something that can last for some time but not needing outstanding performance.

There are shops that give discounts when paired with a MB, Considering,

ASUS PRIME B760-PLUS D4 23,000
MSI PRO B760M-A WIFI DDR4 25,000
Gigabyte B760 DS3H DDR4 (rev. 1.0) 22,000
AsRock B760M Pro RS/D4 23,000

Any other recommendations more than welcome.

As a final note, I read somewhere that the i5-13400 and 13600 that contain onboard graphics cannot be overclocked? Or was this the case for the 12400 and 12600? I would like the option of overclocking

 

[SkyNetRising]

I would like the option of overclocking

For overclocking you need cpu model with K suffix (13600K/13600KF)
And also Z series motherboard (Z790).

 

[Bob.B]

I decided to go with Intel new i5 CPUs as they give options for future upgrades. I plan on using the CPU for a long time for photo editing/ graphic work and possible 3D

In Japan the i5 13400F I can get for around 28,000 yen around 210USD, the 13600F comes in at around 330USD. Is the more than 50% increase worth it considering the performance boost?

I am not a gamer, I would like something that can last for some time but not needing outstanding performance.

There are shops that give discounts when paired with a MB, Considering,

ASUS PRIME B760-PLUS D4 23,000
MSI PRO B760M-A WIFI DDR4 25,000
Gigabyte B760 DS3H DDR4 (rev. 1.0) 22,000
AsRock B760M Pro RS/D4 23,000

Any other recommendations more than welcome.

As a final note, I read somewhere that the i5 13400 and 13600 that contain onboard graphics cannot be overclocked? Or was this the case for the 12400 and 12600? I would like the option of overclocking

Split the diff look at a 13500.

Forget overclocking work at the proper bios and drivers and not running unneeded background stuff.

 

[boju]

Are you after overclocking of the cpu or igpu? Sounds like the latter. If so, purposely looking for that option means you do prefer graphical performance and mid priced graphics cards without the need for powerful psus can do much more.

 

[Lafong]

"I would like something that can last for some time but not needing outstanding performance."

The 13600K has about an 11% advantage on a single thread benchmark.

How much would you regret foregoing that if you went with the 13400? You'd know the answer better than we would.

If you went with the 13400, you'd save about $120. Would you pocket the $120....or would you possibly spend it on other superior components that you could not afford if you got the 13600K? Better case or cooler or motherboard? More RAM?

I'm not sure I'd get any of those 4 boards, regardless of discounts.

 

[boju]

or would you possibly spend it on other superior components that you could not afford if you got the 13600K?

Right on and a graphics card to boot or there abouts.

 

[will2power]

For overclocking you need cpu model with K suffix (13600K/13600KF)
And also Z series motherboard (Z790).

I just checked my info from when I was about to buy an i5 12400 and the i5 13400 came out. I was thinking graphics which is on the GPU, one of the reasons I went for a board without built in graphics. I heard that the ones with built in graphics that if you add a GPU in addition then the GPU cannot be overclocked though I may have completely misunderstood that. I found the charts with these 2 categories and 1st section only the Z board. P and E-Core and BCLK Overclocking and Memory Overclocking. I would be going for later

Split the diff look at a 13500.

Forget overclocking work at the proper bios and drivers and not running unneeded background stuff.

I considered the 13500 but to my knowledge there is not a version that does not have onboard graphics, at least I could not find one. I heard that adding a GPU to one of these boards means no OC of memory, although as mentioned could be wrong.

Are you after overclocking of the cpu or igpu? Sounds like the latter. If so, purposely looking for that option means you do prefer graphical performance and mid priced graphics cards without the need for powerful psus can do much more.

I read that it is good to have a graphics card that can handle some of the video processing or 3D processing quicker. I believe someone on this forum mentioned similar. I come her for everything, have done since my 1st build which is still going 13 years later!

"I would like something that can last for some time but not needing outstanding performance."

The 13600K has about an 11% advantage on a single thread benchmark.

How much would you regret foregoing that if you went with the 13400? You'd know the answer better than we would.

If you went with the 13400, you'd save about $120. Would you pocket the $120....or would you possibly spend it on other superior components that you could not afford if you got the 13600K? Better case or cooler or motherboard? More RAM?

I'm not sure I'd get any of those 4 boards, regardless of discounts.

Thanks again Lafong, you confirmed what I had been thinking, that the money would be better spent on something else. I figured that I could add that money to a not ridiculously expensive GPU as Boju also mentioned. I was told on these forums that virtually any modern GPU will vastly outperform the built in graphics version. I had been planning to get one with graphics then update card later.

My dec now is to go 2nd hand for graphics as marked is huge and great value for money. Japanese people keep things in fantastic condition and 2nd hand is not often considered by many, who want things new. If the box is opened here it is unreturnable for almost any product, unless it is defective. Cant try something out, decide you don't like and return, so it goes immediately to 2nd hand. Even a damaged box but 100% ok product cannot be sold by companies without reductions!

What MB would you consider that would be around the same price? If there are any. Again my MB choice changed with 13th gen processor.

Thanks everyone for the help!

 

[SkyNetRising]

I heard that the ones with built in graphics that if you add a GPU in addition then the GPU cannot be overclocked though I may have completely misunderstood that.

I heard that adding a GPU to one of these boards means no OC of memory, although as mentioned could be wrong.

Complete nonsense.

RAM overclocking depends solely on motherboard.
Discrete GPU has nothing to do with RAM overclocking.
Discrete GPU overclocking doesn't depend on cpu.
Having integrated GPU doesn't impact discrete GPU overclocking.

Why exactly are you so obsessed with overclocking?
This is a work system, you're building.
Emphasis should be on system stability, not on marginal extra performance at cost of system crashes caused by unstable overclock.

 

[Lafong]

What is your best reason to believe that overclocking graphics would substantially improve performance? Or are you interested primarily out of curiosity, as an experiment for hobbyist reasons…rather than productivity?

General comments:

Overclocking CPU: for a productivity PC, I’d guess most here would point you away from CPU overclocking on recent Intel parts. If you aren’t overclocking the CPU, there’s little reason to get a board with a Z chipset UNLESS that board has some specific features or (speculative) build quality that you can’t get on a B or H series board.

I’m just not sure that overclocking anything is worth the trouble unless you are more interested in PCs as a hobby than as a tool. How much time and trouble are you willing to devote to it, rather than buying somewhat more powerful parts and running at stock settings? Is X hassle “worth it” to save Y dollars?

Motherboards: your first post in this thread listed 2 ATX and 2 mATX boards, all DDR 4 variety. You need to decide on whether or not you need ATX and how much premium you might pay to go to DDR 5. That’s complicated by the fact that we don’t know your vendor’s stock and we don’t know how fixed your budget is. I’d lean toward a premium mATX board rather than an average ATX if they were about the same price.

 

[logainofhades]

If you really want future upgrade options, you should be looking to AM5. LGA 1700 is a dead platform, so you would be limited to a 13900k, where as AM5 will still see at least a couple generations of chips, that should be substantially faster than a 13900k today, if the competition we have seen the past few years keeps going.

 

[will2power]

Complete nonsense.

RAM overclocking depends solely on motherboard.
Discrete GPU has nothing to do with RAM overclocking.
Discrete GPU overclocking doesn't depend on cpu.
Having integrated GPU doesn't impact discrete GPU overclocking.

Why exactly are you so obsessed with overclocking?
This is a work system, you're building.
Emphasis should be on system stability, not on marginal extra performance at cost of system crashes caused by unstable overclock.

Yeah. I thought it sounded strange, I think I must have listed a "K" MB and when someone commented that the fixed GPU version couldn't overclock I took it as a sign of the GPU included board and not the K version. It is either that of I was looking at Ryzen boards, I believe the GPU included versions are not exactly the same as those without a Ryzen 5 5600 is a slightly different build from a 5600G (GPU aside of course)

What is your best reason to believe that overclocking graphics would substantially improve performance? Or are you interested primarily out of curiosity, as an experiment for hobbyist reasons…rather than productivity?

General comments:

Overclocking CPU: for a productivity PC, I’d guess most here would point you away from CPU overclocking on recent Intel parts. If you aren’t overclocking the CPU, there’s little reason to get a board with a Z chipset UNLESS that board has some specific features or (speculative) build quality that you can’t get on a B or H series board.

I’m just not sure that overclocking anything is worth the trouble unless you are more interested in PCs as a hobby than as a tool. How much time and trouble are you willing to devote to it, rather than buying somewhat more powerful parts and running at stock settings? Is X hassle “worth it” to save Y dollars?

Motherboards: your first post in this thread listed 2 ATX and 2 mATX boards, all DDR 4 variety. You need to decide on whether or not you need ATX and how much premium you might pay to go to DDR 5. That’s complicated by the fact that we don’t know your vendor’s stock and we don’t know how fixed your budget is. I’d lean toward a premium mATX board rather than an average ATX if they were about the same price.

For overclocking I never even realised there was CPU and GPU overclocking until this thread. I am 13 years out of date and trying to catch up! OC would be GPU only, I am not interested in CPU for reasons mentioned. I don't think I listed board with Z chipset, I guess those are ones starting with "Z"? I am not interested in premium with CPU OC, just something that will hit the "zone" of being able to last some time without lacking something really important. MB and CPU I feel are the parts to spend most on.

I would not say I was "obsessed" with OC just that to have as an option is better than to not have, esp if I am going with 2nd hand cheaper GPU, if the GPU is behind the performance of CPU would the strain be put on the GPU only? In terms of stability, overheating and damage?

Honestly I have never overclocked a PC even though my last and only build had the capability, I never felt comfortable doing it. I heard now it is far easier to do in a "controlled" way with settings to show you the strain on your CPU and build. I would likely not overclock unless, a) it would be extremely safe on CPU, GPU would be a 2nd hand one to start with, nothing amazing but, from what I read, any $150-200 GPU 2nd hand at $100 would still be a lot better than the built in GPU, at least I was told that here for the i5 12400.

DDR 4 I went for because the performance of DDR5 I heard was minimal at present and cost of DDR 5 RAM is a lot higher. Again, I started researching last year so much may have changed.

To answer your other question, the mATX and ATX boards are listed on same page and generally interchangeable, the numbers change a bit but have option of either. Price wise the mATX are generally cheaper. Having Wifi I am also not sure is needed, as it is a workstation and not portable Desktop, plus cables I found more stable anyway.

For more of a premium mATX board would you be able to recommend something? I decided on a MB for i5 12400 but now Bios upgrade is needed, want to avoid possible problems and go with compatible board. Emphasis is on basic use, not gaming or OC. I doubt I will have much attached either, for the moment anyway. Price wise around $150-250, can go higher if performance justifies, like a big jump up after certain price or something.

For DDR 5, is it worth investing in for the future? I could not decide late last year as read mixed reviews about current builds not yet able to draw enough performance boost to justify price. Price seems to have come down.

Vendor wise I am not stuck to just 1 shop, there are loads all offering about same prices and some just have a blanket, "spend over X on CPU and MB and get Y off"

 

[geofelt]

Intel processors have a continuous stream of models to fit any price point.
I3/I5/I7/I9 no longer indicate the number of cores and the presence of hyperthreading.
They now reflect a general performance category.

Then, you will find that the K suffix models not only can be overclocked(on a Z chipset) but they will also have a slight clock boost compared to the non K models.
You mostly get what you pay for at any price point.

I might add that I think you would be wise to spend an extra $25 or so for a non F model.
If you should ever have a discrete graphics card issue, integrated graphics can keep you running. Integrated graphics will also include quick-sync which can be helpful for graphics processing.
https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...uick-sync-video/quick-sync-video-general.html
For normal desktop work, integrated is fine.
HD movie playback works well.
Discrete graphics cards are needed when you need fast action like games.
Check your editing apps for suggested hardware. Some may be able to use the CUDA cores of a discrete gpu.

On ram, currently DDR4 ram performs similar to DDR5. There are some exceptions for some ram intensive apps.
DDR4 ram and motherboards will be less expensive as a rule.
For video editing, you want lots of ram.
Intel is not overly sensitive to ram speed.
3600 speed will be about the sweet spot.

On overclocking:
It used to be that you could get something for nothing by overclocking.
Perhaps a 25% boost on cpu power.
No longer.
Chips are binned and the better chips are used in stronger processors which sell for more.
Today, motherboards and processors will automatically boost performance of individual cores past what an all core oc could give. That faster single core boost will generally result in better performance.

On your list of motherboards, you have ATX and MATX motherboards.
The essential difference is that ATX will have 7 expansion slots, and the smaller MATX motherboard will have 4. Most will use only one for the graphics card.

On the chipsets, you could use either B760 or B660.
Or, Z690 or Z790 for that matter.
I would go with the newer B760, price and features being equal.

On the motherboard, look at the details. How many and what types of usb ports on the back?
What kind of sound does it have. Does it include wifi if you need that?
Look at the vrm cooling area; is there a robust heat sink?
There is probably no wrong decision here.

 

[Lafong]

OC would be GPU only, I am not interested in CPU for reasons mentioned.

I take that to mean you have NO interest in overclocking CPU or RAM. Probably a good idea.

That means less reason to get a K processor of any type. Have you rejected 13500 or 13600 or 13700?

I don't see any reason to seek out "F" series processors to avoid integrated graphics unless the 20 or 30 dollars price difference is a big deal. Not all are available in an F variant regardless.

Again…what is your best evidence of the advantage of GPU overclocking for your use case?

Maybe there is a good reason for a non-gaming PC. I don’t know.

DDR 4 versus 5. Price differential has been falling for the last year. In the US, the difference is maybe 40 dollars at the 16 gb capacity level. You’d have to check your own location.

Motherboards: MSI has a MAG series. Gigabyte has an AORUS series.

I’d investigate those with model numbers begin with a 7 to avoid possibly being required to update the BIOS.

You will see Z790, B760, B760M within the MAG and Aorus choices. You’ll probably see DDR 4 variants and DDR 5 variants. M stands for micro ATX and they may be cheaper than non-M.

They will vary somewhat in features….number and type of USB ports; number of M.2 drive ports, number of case fan connectors, Ethernet supplier, VRM cooling, audio codec, etc.

Make a list of your "must have" features and cross-check against specification sheets found at the manufacturer's web site.

 

[will2power]

Intel processors have a continuous stream of models to fit any price point.
I3/I5/I7/I9 no longer indicate the number of cores and the presence of hyperthreading.
They now reflect a general performance category.

Then, you will find that the K suffix models not only can be overclocked(on a Z chipset) but they will also have a slight clock boost compared to the non K models.
You mostly get what you pay for at any price point.

I might add that I think you would be wise to spend an extra $25 or so for a non F model.
If you should ever have a discrete graphics card issue, integrated graphics can keep you running. Integrated graphics will also include quick-sync which can be helpful for graphics processing.
https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...uick-sync-video/quick-sync-video-general.html
For normal desktop work, integrated is fine.
HD movie playback works well.
Discrete graphics cards are needed when you need fast action like games.
Check your editing apps for suggested hardware. Some may be able to use the CUDA cores of a discrete gpu.

On ram, currently DDR4 ram performs similar to DDR5. There are some exceptions for some ram intensive apps.
DDR4 ram and motherboards will be less expensive as a rule.
For video editing, you want lots of ram.
Intel is not overly sensitive to ram speed.
3600 speed will be about the sweet spot.

On overclocking:
It used to be that you could get something for nothing by overclocking.
Perhaps a 25% boost on cpu power.
No longer.
Chips are binned and the better chips are used in stronger processors which sell for more.
Today, motherboards and processors will automatically boost performance of individual cores past what an all core oc could give. That faster single core boost will generally result in better performance.

On your list of motherboards, you have ATX and MATX motherboards.
The essential difference is that ATX will have 7 expansion slots, and the smaller MATX motherboard will have 4. Most will use only one for the graphics card.

On the chipsets, you could use either B760 or B660.
Or, Z690 or Z790 for that matter.
I would go with the newer B760, price and features being equal.

On the motherboard, look at the details. How many and what types of usb ports on the back?
What kind of sound does it have. Does it include wifi if you need that?
Look at the vrm cooling area; is there a robust heat sink?
There is probably no wrong decision here.

Thanks for the info! mATX will prob be better for me as I feel getting a better board over having more slots, expansion slots are used for GPU and RAM, plus SSD drives? If that is the case then 4 would be min I would be looking at. Sound is not really needed as I have an Eizo monitor with no speakers, I likely will not buy speakers for the PC, prob upgrade headset if I am doing video. Currently I do not work with Audio or Video but good to have options.

B660 I was considering but I heard Bios needs updating? Which can be problematic. B760 is where I will go but know nothing about them after studying the older MBs. Figured spending the money on something with good fundamentals and nothing fancy. Wireless is a bonus but can get USB add ons for that I guess? Cable I can use, gets in way a bit but does not bother me much. Cable should be as fast as WiFi, my connection I think is 1 or 2 GB.

Lots of Ram was a plan, I think min 32MB and likely will go for 64MB, the kinds of RAM vary, the makers go from cheap to really expensive and I am sure there is a good reason, just do not know what it is. 3600 was what I was looking at, seem cost effective.

As I now know that the discrete graphics cards on CPUs do nothing to hinder the performance I will def get a discrete graphics card CPU! Was initial plan until I work out if I need GPU and what kind to get. Plus as you mentioned having it as a kind of "safety net" is worth cost alone. That means a i5 13500, 13600 are possible. The i5 13500 I will look into, price wise to see if there is a big increase in performance. I think the 13600 seems to be too much extra, plus 50% for a modest 11% performance boost. i5 13500 may be the best spot

I take that to mean you have NO interest in overclocking CPU or RAM. Probably a good idea.

That means less reason to get a K processor of any type. Have you rejected 13500 or 13600 or 13700?

I don't see any reason to seek out "F" series processors to avoid integrated graphics unless the 20 or 30 dollars price difference is a big deal. Not all are available in an F variant regardless.

Again…what is your best evidence of the advantage of GPU overclocking for your use case?

Maybe there is a good reason for a non-gaming PC. I don’t know.

DDR 4 versus 5. Price differential has been falling for the last year. In the US, the difference is maybe 40 dollars at the 16 gb capacity level. You’d have to check your own location.

Motherboards: MSI has a MAG series. Gigabyte has an AORUS series.

I’d investigate those with model numbers begin with a 7 to avoid possibly being required to update the BIOS.

You will see Z790, B760, B760M within the MAG and Aorus choices. You’ll probably see DDR 4 variants and DDR 5 variants. M stands for micro ATX and they may be cheaper than non-M.

They will vary somewhat in features….number and type of USB ports; number of M.2 drive ports, number of case fan connectors, Ethernet supplier, VRM cooling, audio codec, etc.

Make a list of your "must have" features and cross-check against specification sheets found at the manufacturer's web site.

Yeah, sorry to confuse people, the CPU I have no interest in overclocking. I checked the Ryzen CPUs and it seems like they are ones I was thinking of the 5600, 5600G and 5600X all being different. For intel I thought might be same with 13400 and 13400F being different builds. I was wrong and both are identical save GPU. In this case one with GPU makes a lot of sense, there is no disadvantage I can see.

Getting to your question, as they are same builds as the graphic less versions then 13400, 13500 and 13600 are all on the table now. I will buy one with on board GPU for sure. I am thinking of 13400 or 13500, need to check the performance difference. I rejected 13500 as there was onboard GPU only, now I think it is a must buy as GPUs are expensive and I will be relying on a 2nd hand bargain popping up, I want to get PC up and running quick, integrated graphics was my original choice last year.

Thanks for the MB heads up on Aorus and MAG, I have seen both but really had no idea what all the added on names meant with regard to my actual needs. I will look at those boards, micro versions.

DDR5 or DDR4 I am still not sure. Toms is my go-to for everything and remember reading this that put me off DDR5. OC/ gaming is not a priority but an option, I reckon I will only try to overclock once the PC becomes a bit older. The price difference in the boards is almost non existent now, but not sure about the RAM costs.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-core-i5-13400-core-i5-13400f-cpu-review

"The Raptor Lake chips support either value-centric DDR4 or the pricier DDR5. As our tests show, you should only buy the latter if you intend to splurge on a heavily-overclocked kit — at stock settings, a cheap DDR4 memory kit will give you roughly the same gaming performance as a pricey DDR5 kit. Additionally, DDR5 overclocking gains come with eye-pricing markups that largely aren't worth the small uplift. "

Thanks everyone for the help!

 

[Lafong]

expansion slots are used for GPU and RAM, plus SSD drives?

"Expansion slots" as a term typically excludes RAM slots and drives.

It usually refers to locations where cards of one type or another can be inserted. Most commonly video cards, but also sound, RAID, TV tuners, or adapters of one type or another.

Micro ATX boards typically have 3 slots with varying capabilities.

Lots of people use only 1 slot....graphics card. I normally don't use any as I always use integrated graphics.

Most any current mid-level or higher board will have 2 or more M.2 drive ports. Not sure any micro ATX boards have 3. Could be. High priced ATX boards can have 4. Most boards still have the traditional 6 SATA drive ports, but over time you will probably trend away from them to avoid cables if nothing else.

 

[will2power]

"Expansion slots" as a term typically excludes RAM slots and drives.

It usually refers to locations where cards of one type or another can be inserted. Most commonly video cards, but also sound, RAID, TV tuners, or adapters of one type or another.

Micro ATX boards typically have 3 slots with varying capabilities.

Lots of people use only 1 slot....graphics card. I normally don't use any as I always use integrated graphics.

Most any current mid-level or higher board will have 2 or more M.2 drive ports. Not sure any micro ATX boards have 3. Could be. High priced ATX boards can have 4. Most boards still have the traditional 6 SATA drive ports, but over time you will probably trend away from them to avoid cables if nothing else.

Thanks for clearing that up. My plan is to have an SSD drive possibly on an M.2 port. Graphics card in future, 4 x 16GB RAM. A Micro ATX should be fine?

I am researching MBs you mentioned.

The MAG B760M MORTAR WIFI DDR4 is version up from my last choice, was going to go with the 660 Mortar for i5 12400. Tomohawk is just bigger version of Mortar? There is under $10 between them. Both around 30,000JPY about $225

B760M AORUS ELITE AX DDR4 Micro version is a fair bit cheaper than larger one, $45 difference. It is about $210

Are Asus and AsRock worth considering? They seem to be cheaper but I guess there is a reason for that. More expensive versions of the ranges, similar price point to Mag and Aorus;

Asus TUF GAMING B760-PLUS WIFI D4 Micro or ATX is similar price, Without wifi, TUF GAMING B760M-PLUS D4 is about $210. The "Prime" range are a fair bit cheaper but I believe you did not recommend

AsRock Z790 Pro RS/D4 is also similar price range. $230, Z790M PG Lightning/D4 $215 or so. The lower "B760" range are from $130 to $205

I need to check what each of these has and decide. I trust judgement of more knowledgeable people and will likely settle on the MAG or Aourus

 

[Lafong]

If you really need 64 RAM, I'd get it in the form of one kit of 2 sticks; 32 GB per stick.

I wouldn't go so far as to regard anything I say as a "recommendation" on hardware brands. You can have a terrible or fabulous experience with any of them. I just meant that's where I'd personally lean today if I were buying and there is a pretty good chance I will within a few months.

You need luck. These things aren't exactly hand made by a highly skilled technician....like a luthier might be. They are rolled off assembly lines by the thousands per hour.

I've had motherboard failures from Intel, Asus, and AsRock.

Not sure what's going on with Asus....just seems like they get fewer raves than they did 5 or 10 years ago. Maybe justified, maybe not.

Brands seem to go in and out of favor. Samsung has recently taken heat on SSDs. That may amount to something over time.

I've never owned MSI.

I've owned 1 Gigabyte. It did not fail.

I'm on an AsRock for the last 6 plus years. It's been perfect. The first AsRock I had was dead on arrival.

None of my personal anecdotes should mean much to you. I'm a sample size of one. You are crap-shooting more than you'd like.

Never investigated Tomahawk. I don't need full ATX; don't even have an ATX case anymore.

 

[will2power]

Thanks for the reply Lafong. I combine experience of people like yourself with reviews while also ticking off what I need or don't need. What helps me is having people on this forum point me in directions to get a good reference point. I cannot check everything out there and as you mentioned, can be lucky or unlucky depending on what you get. People have different experiences. What I appreciate is people helping me narrow things down.

I now have about 4 or 5 motherboards to compare, will see what they offer that a cheaper one does not and make decisions based on that. I am happy to stretch budget and go up if there is a good reason to. Likely I do not need a lot of the extras on MBs meant for gaming.

I am certain now I will get the i5 13500 and narrowed down MBs. Perhaps I will take a look at reviews again and check out the MB forum. Also need to decide if I want DDR5 or DDR4

Thanks everyone for the help