[SOLVED] Intel i9 11900k Vs Ryzen 7th/9th?

[sassums]

PC not built yet

Upgrading from a Intel Core i7-2700k w/ 16GB Ram and a 660TI Nvidia.

Playing strategy games like Cities Skylines and similar

I currently have an Intel i9-11900k partnered with a ASUS - ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO Motherboard.

My question is would it be worth it to swap the i9 out with a Ryzen 7 or 9th? (whatever their latest generation is) and motherboard or would I not see a performance difference?

Obviously I would prefer the 12th gen i9 but they are harder than ever to find plus I already have 128GB of DDR4 memory and most of the ROG boards only support DDR5 with the new generations.

I can return/exchange the i9 and motherboard through January (Thanks BBY).

Also have a Corsair AIO H170i for CPU Cooling so I understand the Ryzen chips run hotter but I assume that should suffice.

Thanks!

 

[Eximo]

No you won't see significant gains or losses from going from a 8c/16t to another 8c/16t of similar age.

Ryzen 12 core or 16 would have more throughput, but it depends on what you are doing if that matters.

128GB of memory is a hefty investment to toss out. There are DDR4 boards, just not ROG, why the need for that? Overclocking isn't really worth it with these things.

Ryzen chips are more efficient than Intel, by a long way actually. Intel has been playing catch up with frequency for the last several generations.

My locked i9 will draw 200W, from a 65W TDP, people regularly get 250W out of unlocked i7 and i9, Ryzen tops out around 150W.

 

[logainofhades]

Performance difference in what? In gaming not at all. In video editing or similar workstation tasks a Ryzen 9 5900x, or 5950x would be superior, but not worth the cost to make the switch, unless this system is for making money, with actual work. Even then, I probably would suggest going to a 10850k, if you truly needed extra multi-threaded support.

 

[Eximo]

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/G4...0-motherboard-rog-strix-z690-a-gaming-wifi-d4

12th gen has a lot going for it, and a lot bad.

16cores/24 threads, 8p cores, and 8e cores with the i9. E cores are basically skylake/kabylake cores without hyperthreading. With Windows 11 they will supposedly take on lesser tasks leaving the P cores to do the hard work. Various incompatibilities with some software, a slightly buggy OS. Not ideal. However, you do have about a 20% speed increase over 11th gen and Ryzen 5000.

AMD should be releasing Zen3 chips with additional 3D cache added, that may make up the difference. (A lot of the speed increase is a larger unified cache)

And then AMD will have its own AM5 socket with DDR5 next year.

If you want to jump on 12th gen, be aware that subsequent generations may drop DDR4 support, so you would only be putting it off for a little while.

 

[Nighthawk117]

It's unclear what you use your PC for, I'm going to assume you didn't buy 128GB of ram for just gaming At present in games you are unlikely to notice any real world difference between the 11900K and any of the other CPU's available. However going forward you may find that a higher count cpu or the new Alder Lake architecture will last you longer before you need to upgrade again. The only cpu's worth considering are the 12700K, 12900K and the latest Ryzen 9 cpu's. 12th gen is nice however both the 5900X and 5950X are noteable improvements in productivity workloads and offer more cores for multitasking. Personally I would have opted for the 5900X as it's fairly affordable. If it doesn't cost you anything to return and the 12900K is unavailable then a swap to the 5900X could be worth it. It's also worth noting that the 5900X uses significantly less power and runs cooler, it also has no software compatibility issues that currently face 12th gen because the platform is mature and all cpu cores are the same. Even if you did go 12th gen though, your best sticking with a DDR4 board, 128GB DDR5 will cost you a small fortune. However having said all that, the 11900K is still a very capable cpu in it's own right even if the shine is taken off by some of the other stuff and at some point you do just have to enjoy your computer.

 

[sassums]

Sorry I forget I need to lead with what its for!

I have an Intel Intel Core i7-2700k, Intel Board, 16GB RAM, and an Nvidia 660TI.

Trying to play Cities Skylines and other games of similar nature. (I do all the FPS stuff on console)..

Of the 16GB of Ram Skylines eats up almost all of it - so I assumed that was the problem. Tried putting 32Gb into the rig and it wouldn't work (even though its compatible the system is just old)......so I decided it was just time to upgrade it.

I went with the 128GB of Ram to avoid having the same problem down the line where I want to add more memory but for some reason cant.

So it isn't being used to make money or any video/photo editing or rendering. I would like it to be able to stream if I ever do it (Which it sounds like OBS software can now run in partner with my Xbox and not need a capture card).

So in the end its more or less a computer im building because its just time to upgrade to play less than demanding games

I have an ASUS Nvidia 3080TI sitting with it but seeing as I can return it until January im holding out on building the rig until I can get a 3090 since the price difference is like $200.

 

[Nighthawk117]

Well firstly even the 11900K is up to 3.5 times faster than your 2700K when all its cores and threads can be used. It's also not far off double the speed in single threaded performance. I think your choice of 128GB of ram is hilarious but you only live once I guess
City Skylines will run best on Alder Lake because it has the strongest IPC and highest clock rates, this will be true for strategy games and city building games generally. It's not going to benefit from higher core counts than what you have. I have no benchmarks available of the game but I would guess it would be around 20% faster relative to the 11900K. Ryzen will probably offer no benefit over your current cpu in that game.

However where the 12700K, 12900K, 5900X and 5950X score is in their multithreading performance. They are meaningfully better than the 11900K, that could be beneficial in terms of streaming if you are using software encoding that runs on the cpu. The 11900K does also have quicksync which could be used for that too though.

My final two cents is, based on the usage you have described it is unlikely any of these other cpu's would offer meaningful benefit to you at this time. However should your needs change in the future you may find you grow into one of these other cpu's over time and as such they might last you longer. If you've got a bit of buyers remorse from buying 11th gen just before 12th gen came out then a swap might be worth it. I know you say you can't get the 12900K but the 12700K is also worth considering, it has the same 8 performance cores just 4 less efficiency cores. The 12900K is only around 19% faster than the 12700K in multithreading and here in the UK they are much easier to find.

 

[sassums]

Thanks! That's what everyone has been saying. I guess I assumed I just needed more RAM but from what it sounds like I dont!

So if I do swap out for a 12th gen CPU, motherboard, and RAM - I dont need the 128gb?

Although all of the above are hard to find and newegg will only let me return the ram through the 26th.

 

[sassums]

Well.....just checked Best Buy's website and they have Intel - Core i9-12900K Desktop Processor 16 (8P+8E) Cores up to 5.2 GHz Unlocked LGA1700 600 Series Chipset 125W in stock so I picked one of those up and ill return my i9-11900 chipset.

Not to find a motherboard and RAM for it.

I had assumed games draw a significant amount of RAM but from the sounds of it I am incorrect?

 

[geofelt]

Your i9-11900K will do very well in gaming.
The spec that games need most is fast single thread performance.
Your current i7-2700K was a fine processor way back when.
It has 8 processing threads and a passmark rating of 5636. That is when all threads are fully busy.
The single thread rating is 1795
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-2700K+@+3.50GHz&id=881

By comparison, the i9-11900K has 16 processing threads and a rating of 25594/3462.
A very hefty boost any way you look at it.

The 5950X is a beast with 32 threads and a rating of 46150/3498

I5-12600k 16 threads 23949/3946
I7-12700K 20 29688/3909
i9-12900K 24 37067/4173

These all will be better gamers.

Note the difference in single thread performance. Intel 12th gen is some 19 % stronger per clock.
All of the 12th gen processors are stronger in single thread game performance.
The main difference is how many processing threads so you require.

Sounds like budget is not an issue for you; look at the i9-12900K.

Your DDR4 ram will work just fine.
The new Z690 chipset is equally capable of running EITHER DDR4 or DDR5.
Today, there is little difference in performance between DDR4 and DDR5.
DDR5 ram and motherboards are a bit more expensive.

I suggest you plan on a new cooler. LGA1700 mounting is a bit different.
Past that, AIO coolers have a limited lifetime before air intrudes into the system requiring a replacement.

Here is a review of the 12600K
https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/core_i5_12600k_processor_review,21.html

 

[Nighthawk117]

You've completely over done it on the RAM, I actually missed the bit about the 3080ti. You have a completely insane computer for the sorts of games your talking about A little extra ram never hurt anyone, if you were to change it I would still stick with 64GB. You don't need it of course, but it's a sensible pairing for a computer equipped with such an expensive video card, plus 32GB is becoming more common in gaming machines anyway.

If it were me buying 12th gen I would stick with DDR4 as its alot cheaper and for games I've seen nothing to justify the additional cost but I do understand wanting the best. I'm very sceptical about returning the video card, given they are quite rare at the moment, I wouldn't return in it unless I was absolutely certain I had a 3090 on the way, and to be honest, unless you really need 24GB of vram over 12GB there is no performance gains to be had.

It's obviously your decision on whether or not to return your current cpu and board. I can understand you feeling a bit burned given it's short time at the top, it is however not an inherently bad cpu it's just not special because its roughly equivalent to the 12600K.

 

[sassums]

For sure - I wouldn't return it unless I had a 3090 on the way - thanks Best Buy Credit Card.

Now that the 12 gen has been ordered I guess I am curious if I should attempt to buy the ROG boards from Asus that are DDR5 or stick with the boards they sell that support the DDR4. I guess I am confused on what I am losing by not going with the ROG DDR5 boards. Other than obviously the DDR5 memory.

Also the CORSAIR - iCUE H170i ELITE CAPELLIX Liquid CPU Cooler I bought has never been opened and I was able to obtain the conversion mounting bracket screws. However I do believe CORSAIR is coming out with a new version of the H170 that is ready for 12gen chips.

 

[Nighthawk117]

Some games do use a significant amount of RAM yes but the normal recommendation would be 32GB not 128 For the calibre of builds your talking about whether its the 11900K or newer you should either get 32GB or 64GB. If you can afford a 12900K and a 3080Ti then 64GB isn't stupid because the whole build is crazy anyway and they compliment each other. Though if you insist on having the latest and want DDR5 then I would go 32GB. You really don't need more right now anyway and your spending vast sums of money to have that extra 32GB, my vote however is still to stick with DDR4.

 

[Nighthawk117]

Just to be clear though, if you do opt for a DDR4 board, you cannot drop in DDR5 later.

 

[Nighthawk117]

As for your cooler, if you've already got the mounting bracket, does it really matter? If you have to wait a little while for stock of the new one, I'm not sure what the benefit would be.

 

[sassums]

Yeah thats the only draw back....along with some other nuances like a reduction in connections on the board for USB ports, fans etc, it looks like Newegg has the Z690 E-Gaming available but last time I configured it with the tower I got it didnt have enough connections to power all the USB ports on the tower (not that it matters but the minor OCD in me would be bothered by it).

As for the Cooler - Ive read some reviews where due to the 12th gen being more rectangle than square it doesnt come with enough thermal paste or something to that effect. Obviously I can add more but.

 

[logainofhades]

As DDR5 is overly expensive, if you can even find it, I would go with a DDR4 setup.

 

[Nighthawk117]

I just had a quick look, basically the mounting of the old coolers isn't 100% perfect, but I think once you've screwed it all down you wouldn't notice any difference. Yes I think you will need to apply that yourself because the waterblock may be a teeny bit offset as well. But I don't think that's a biggie I use aftermarket paste anyway myself. When you say it doesn't have enough USB ports, there's normally two usb headers on the board I think along with the front panel connector. Though RGB hubs and RGB water blocks may take those up.

Update, you could perhaps look into internal USB hubs which attach to a single USB header on the board like this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/NZXT-Inter...2&hvtargid=pla-1210080947949&psc=1&th=1&psc=1

 

[sassums]

Hmm Interesting! Just based on that PC Part Picker website swapping from the E-Gaming motherboard to the Hero Motherboard corrects the issue - so it would seem the Hero boards just have more connections. I have a Corsair ICUE 7000X RBG case that I found on amazon since they are also hard to find.

But speaking with Corsair they have a new H170 cooler (with the fancy digital screen) that will be designed for the newer chips I guess?

 

[geofelt]

While the lga1700 chips are indeed rectangular, the cooler mounting holes are square and slightly different from lga1151.
Some Z690 motherboards will have the two sets of mounting holes.

Unfortunately, that is not the whole story. The 12th gen processors are thinner.
If the cooler can not compensate there will not be perfect contact and imperfect cooling.
That is why all cooler vendors will be able to supply a lga1700 mounting kit.
Some are free, some will be about $10.

 

[Nighthawk117]

Obviously it's nice to have the latest one that is designed for it but waiting until next week is obviously rather different to waiting a month. The new ones don't seem to be available where I live and I can't see when they might be shipped. If you find that you will be able to get hold of one soon then by all means as you havn't opened the other one so the return should be straightforward. I wouldn't wait too long for it myself personally because I think you'd stop caring quickly once the pc was all set up.

 

[Nighthawk117]

While the lga1700 chips are indeed rectangular, the cooler mounting holes are square and slightly different from lga1151.
Some Z690 motherboards will have the two sets of mounting holes.

Unfortunately, that is not the whole story. The 12th gen processors are thinner.
If the cooler can not compensate there will not be perfect contact and imperfect cooling.
That is why all cooler vendors will be able to supply a lga1700 mounting kit.
Some are free, some will be about $10.

If Corsair are supplying a mounting kit though, then surely that would mean they've tested it and it should be fine?

 

[geofelt]

If Corsair are supplying a mounting kit though, then surely that would mean they've tested it and it should be fine?

I would certainly expect such a kit to work properly.

 

[sassums]

Well firstly even the 11900K is up to 3.5 times faster than your 2700K when all its cores and threads can be used. It's also not far off double the speed in single threaded performance. I think your choice of 128GB of ram is hilarious but you only live once I guess
City Skylines will run best on Alder Lake because it has the strongest IPC and highest clock rates, this will be true for strategy games and city building games generally. It's not going to benefit from higher core counts than what you have. I have no benchmarks available of the game but I would guess it would be around 20% faster relative to the 11900K. Ryzen will probably offer no benefit over your current cpu in that game.

However where the 12700K, 12900K, 5900X and 5950X score is in their multithreading performance. They are meaningfully better than the 11900K, that could be beneficial in terms of streaming if you are using software encoding that runs on the cpu. The 11900K does also have quicksync which could be used for that too though.

My final two cents is, based on the usage you have described it is unlikely any of these other cpu's would offer meaningful benefit to you at this time. However should your needs change in the future you may find you grow into one of these other cpu's over time and as such they might last you longer. If you've got a bit of buyers remorse from buying 11th gen just before 12th gen came out then a swap might be worth it. I know you say you can't get the 12900K but the 12700K is also worth considering, it has the same 8 performance cores just 4 less efficiency cores. The 12900K is only around 19% faster than the 12700K in multithreading and here in the UK they are much easier to find.

I would certainly expect such a kit to work properly.

I did in fact get the mounting kit from Corsair directly - it was like $4 I believe. Its just a different set of screws

The new H170i will come with that as well as a new LCD screen that goes on top of the CPU that gives you a visual temperature