News Intel Outlines IDM 2.0 Strategy: Leading-Edge Nodes, Outsourcing, Foundry Services

[Admin]

Intel's Pat Gelsinger announces IDM 2.0 strategy that combines internal manufacturing, outsourcing, and foundry services.

Intel Outlines IDM 2.0 Strategy: Leading-Edge Nodes, Outsourcing, Foundry Services : Read more

 

[dave.jeffers]

The ship has been floundering for years now. The Lieutenant has been promoted to Captain, and is now saying whatever it takes to calm the crew and passengers. But make no mistake, the ship is sinking.

 

[spongiemaster]

The ship has been floundering for years now. The Lieutenant has been promoted to Captain, and is now saying whatever it takes to calm the crew and passengers. But make no mistake, the ship is sinking.

AMD was practically bankrupt before Ryzen launched. Intel replaced their CEO 2 months ago. AMD didn't turn it around that quickly, and Intel isn't starting from nearly the dire position that AMD was in. We won't know for a couple years if Intel is in a death spiral or if they've gotten back on track.

 

[atomicWAR]

The ship has been floundering for years now. The Lieutenant has been promoted to Captain, and is now saying whatever it takes to calm the crew and passengers. But make no mistake, the ship is sinking.

Hardly, this isn't the first time AMD has knocked Intel off balance. AMD64 CPUs thoroughly creamed Intel's Pentium 4 and Pentium D processors when they launched. That situation was even worse than now for Intel. Intel can at least compete as of now even if they don't have the advantage unlike when AMD64 launched. Regardless Intel still has loads of money to throw at the problem and the engineering talent to make it happen. Plus when you look at the Alder Lake launch, that will be the first Keller designed architecture...you know the guy who designed Zen. So until Intel cash reserves are toast and they've lost the server/data center market, the fight is far from over. Besides the last thing any enthusiast should want is for an x86 maker to go under. If we lose Intel, we lose competition and we'll be in a worse boat than the early Intel Core days when AMD Faildozer...I mean bulldozer just couldn't keep up and AMD stock price was in the trash can.

 

[jkflipflop98]

The ship has been floundering for years now. The Lieutenant has been promoted to Captain, and is now saying whatever it takes to calm the crew and passengers. But make no mistake, the ship is sinking.

LOL no.

 

[hotaru.hino]

The ship has been floundering for years now. The Lieutenant has been promoted to Captain, and is now saying whatever it takes to calm the crew and passengers. But make no mistake, the ship is sinking.

Adding to everything said above, Intel is more than a CPU manufacturing company. They have their hands in plenty of other products that are doing just fine. This is on top of Intel's net income is still an order of magnitude higher than AMD's.

 

[JasHod1]

The article says that they would custom design x86 with other customers but not x64. As x64 is a AMD design which AMD cross licenses with Intel exclusively for their use (not to be fabbed or designed for other companies) and most programs are now written and run in x64, what use is this announcement?

 

[JayNor]

"Still, it does not look like Intel could have the industry's best fabrication process with its 7 nm in 2023."

Intel has the combination of Foveros, EMIB, silicon photonics, PAM4 technology, CXL, Optane, FPGAs.

The xe-hpc chip that the CEO held up ... if it works ... will certainly make their point.

 

[TerryLaze]

AMD was practically bankrupt before Ryzen launched. Intel replaced their CEO 2 months ago. AMD didn't turn it around that quickly, and Intel isn't starting from nearly the dire position that AMD was in. We won't know for a couple years if Intel is in a death spiral or if they've gotten back on track.

It's AMD that should be scared to death right now, if intel can supply GPUs all year around instead of only around release date it's going to be a really bad time for AMD, and nvidia to a somewhat smaller degree.
If intel decides to make super cheap CPUs with a big XE chip in it and offer them to MS and Sony in "unlimited" supply it's going to be an even worse time for AMD.

The article says that they would custom design x86 with other customers but not x64. As x64 is a AMD design which AMD cross licenses with Intel exclusively for their use (not to be fabbed or designed for other companies) and most programs are now written and run in x64, what use is this announcement?

What do you mean, the other thing besides x64 is x32 (64 bit and 32 bit) they both run on x86 technology.

 

[JasHod1]

It's AMD that should be scared to death right now, if intel can supply GPUs all year around instead of only around release date it's going to be a really bad time for AMD, and nvidia to a somewhat smaller degree.
If intel decides to make super cheap CPUs with a big XE chip in it and offer them to MS and Sony in "unlimited" supply it's going to be an even worse time for AMD.

What do you mean, the other thing besides x64 is x32 (64 bit and 32 bit) they both run on x86 technology.

Intel licence x64, the 64 bit extensions, from AMD. AMD made that extension to x86. That would not be covered by this agreement. Intel can make and fab a plain x86 processor for anyone they like but not with the x64 extensions, they're AMD's. They do not run on x86, try running x64 on any Intel processor before a Pentium 4.

 

[ekio]

It's so annoying to see those companies trying to force the obsolete x86 to continue its painful existence, instead of providing the world with newer high quality ISAs like RISC-V....

 

[hotaru.hino]

It's so annoying to see those companies trying to force the obsolete x86 to continue its painful existence, instead of providing the world with newer high quality ISAs like RISC-V....

While I agree x86 has baggage on it that no longer has a place in today's world, I hardly agree that it's obsolete. The ISA doesn't make a processor better or worse.

 

[TechLurker]

I'm wondering what happened to the planned "possible joint development of future nodes with TSMC" that was rumored/teased a few weeks ago, where Intel seemed like they would partner with TSMC to split the cost of next-gen Node R&D in exchange for Intel possibly opening their fabs for 3rd party designs. The article confirms that Intel is partnering with IBM thus far, and is willing to fab possible rival chip components. Heck, hell may even freeze over and Intel could also be fabbing their rival's (AMD's) chips, since some of the earnings will still go back to them as part of the manufacturing deal. Of course, that assumes Intel improves Nodes to really match TSMC and doesn't steal IP design elements.

As well, I wonder if their Arizona Fab expansion will be a possible joint operation with TSMC, or if it will directly compete against TSMC. If it's the latter, TSMC is going to have trouble headhunting talent against Intel (something Ian Cutress mentioned in his Anandtech article on the TSMC Arizona deal).

 

[gggplaya]

Intel licence x64, the 64 bit extensions, from AMD. AMD made that extension to x86. That would not be covered by this agreement. Intel can make and fab a plain x86 processor for anyone they like but not with the x64 extensions, they're AMD's. They do not run on x86, try running x64 on any Intel processor before a Pentium 4.

Patents are only good for 20 years, though I'm not sure where instruction sets fall under patents or copywrite. The Athlon64 came out in 2003. So if this new facility is set to open in 2023 or 2024, the patent may have expired by then. That's assuming instruction sets fall under patent law. If it falls under copywrite law it could be different, I don't know I'm not a lawyer.

 

[TerryLaze]

Intel licence x64, the 64 bit extensions, from AMD. AMD made that extension to x86. That would not be covered by this agreement. Intel can make and fab a plain x86 processor for anyone they like but not with the x64 extensions, they're AMD's. They do not run on x86, try running x64 on any Intel processor before a Pentium 4.

x86 is the underlying architecture that exists since the 1980 when intel gave amd the license to make some their selves.
x64 came 20 years later, around 2000.
So yes intel could not make compatible x64 CPUs without using AMD's patents but AMD couldn't make any CPU at all without intel's patents.

https://jolt.law.harvard.edu/digest/intel-and-the-x86-architecture-a-legal-perspective

x86 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[gdmaclew]

so it sticked to multi patterning techniques ?

Doesn't anyone proof read their copy anymore?

 

[jkflipflop98]

It's AMD that should be scared to death right now, if intel can supply GPUs all year around instead of only around release date it's going to be a really bad time for AMD, and nvidia to a somewhat smaller degree.
If intel decides to make super cheap CPUs with a big XE chip in it and offer them to MS and Sony in "unlimited" supply it's going to be an even worse time for AMD.

What do you mean, the other thing besides x64 is x32 (64 bit and 32 bit) they both run on x86 technology.

Intel will never do another console. It's a super crappy deal and it only ever works out in the console maker's favor. Intel learned that one the hard way making the CPU for the OG Xbox. The last generation of consoles was strictly powered by AMD and they were still bleeding money like crazy.

It's so annoying to see those companies trying to force the obsolete x86 to continue its painful existence, instead of providing the world with newer high quality ISAs like RISC-V....

Oh please. People have been on this "just go RISC for everything!" train for the last 20 years. It's equally as silly as the "just go ARM for everything!" ideal that's sprung up lately. We see who's still in use and who isn't.

 

[TerryLaze]

Intel will never do another console.

Intel has made many consoles, if you look at the NUCs that intel makes the only difference is that they don't have a custom OS running/no game store. (well and of course that they don't sell at a loss because of that)
As far as I know intel does make custom iGPUs or in general custom silicon for big partners.
I agree that intel won't make cheap CPUs for consoles, but if they would it would take a good chunk of money away from AMD.

 

[purpleduggy]

intel 7nm is not larger than tsmc 3nm. intel just has higher standards. intel 7nm is actually denser than tsmc 3nm if we look at transistor count per area. Intel 14nm was also denser than tsmc 7nm, same with intel 10nm and tsmc 5nm. the nm naming scheme is inaccurate. they did a great job of 13th gen. I just upgraded to i9-13900k from Ryzen 7 3700X and the single core speed on the i9-13900k is incredible. Star citizen 4k at 60fps all day with a Radeon 7900XT. i was thinking about going AMD Ryzen 9 7950X but their single core was lagging behind Intel this gen and ive had Ryzens for my last two upgrades. plus CPU AV1 on Intel 13th gen. I hope AMD beats Intel so both companies become even more aggressive on competing in performance and cost things have been stagnant. bring it on.

 

[Deleted member 14196]

Wow, a lot of hyperbole in here

 

[gggplaya]

intel 7nm is not larger than tsmc 3nm. intel just has higher standards. intel 7nm is actually denser than tsmc 3nm if we look at transistor count per area. Intel 14nm was also denser than tsmc 7nm, same with intel 10nm and tsmc 5nm. the nm naming scheme is inaccurate. they did a great job of 13th gen. I just upgraded to i9-13900k from Ryzen 7 3700X and the single core speed on the i9-13900k is incredible. Star citizen 4k at 60fps all day with a Radeon 7900XT. i was thinking about going AMD Ryzen 9 7950X but their single core was lagging behind Intel this gen and ive had Ryzens for my last two upgrades. plus CPU AV1 on Intel 13th gen. I hope AMD beats Intel so both companies become even more aggressive on competing in performance and cost things have been stagnant. bring it on.

AMD's x3D processors do really well in Star Citizen. They've beat Intel in some benchmarks in Star Citizen. 1% lows might still be in Intel's favor. But average frame rates are still in AMD's. However, AMD does it with much less heat and power consumption than the 13900k. And based on price the 7800x3D wins handily over the 13700k.

 

[purpleduggy]

AMD's x3D processors do really well in Star Citizen. They've beat Intel in some benchmarks in Star Citizen. 1% lows might still be in Intel's favor. But average frame rates are still in AMD's. However, AMD does it with much less heat and power consumption than the 13900k. And based on price the 7800x3D wins handily over the 13700k.

The X3D chips are fast. I would have bought one, but X670 motherboards are like $100 more expensive than Z690 for ~3% increase. pretty much the same. Sure i9-13900k thermals are crazy, but my Noctua D15 handles it under 80C at 250W full tilt, you just got to get your case fans setup right in a decent case.. I get like under 35 idle. I bought more RAM with that money instead. AMD screwed over everyone who has no upgrade path from previous gen forcing you to get a new AM5 slot . If they kept AM4 I'd have considered it. What happens next Gen? are they gonna force AM6? there is very little benefit to AM5 other than milking us. DDR5 is not that much faster than the high end DDR4 modules. you need to buy the premium DDR5 modules to see any real benefit. I have a buddy who has a DDR4 Z690 i9-13900k and its pretty much the same as mine in performance. If Intel didn't keep LGA1700, I'd have bought AMD 7950x3d. The fact that they allowed the 12th gen upgrade path, from Z690, and not force Z790 with a new slot made me more interested. AMD could have had the same perf on AM4. X570 AM4 already had a bunch of PCIe lanes and enough power delivery. Or they could have done an AM4 version of the 7000 series. AMD could have given us Quad channel or Octa channel memory that they have on threadripper easily with AM5, but no, new slot and only Dual Channel and then it turns out they don't even need the power delivery, so why AM5? On Single core IPC the 7800x3D is much slower. for $100 more as you need a X670 board. I don't care about either brand. I want the most bang for buck. I've had both and have bought exclusively AMD GPUs since the ATI days. Both AMD and Intel are not our friends, they are profit incentivized companies. Don't forget this.