Intel Posts Z390 Chipset Documents

[PaulAlcorn]

Intel has posted a Z390 Chipset Product Brief to its site with little fanfare.

Intel Posts Z390 Chipset Documents : Read more

 

[mahanddeem]

What is intel high definition audio?

 

[TechyInAZ]

What is intel high definition audio?

If I remember correctly, that's just Intels iGPU audio when you hook up a display via HDMI/DP.

 

[Sleepy_Hollowed]

Intel HD Audio is the audio codec from Intel that superseded AC 97. It's widely used on those that do not use Realtek's HD audio or any other manufacturer implemented audio.

Intel's HD Audio standard is a bit more expensive and strict than others, so it wasn't as implemented as the AC 97, but I did see them in a bunch of boards, especially when Intel used to make mainboards. The specification has been around since 2004:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_High_Definition_Audio

 

[arpanet1981]

I see no mention of ECC memory support.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I almost don't get the point of USB 3.1 gen2 being pushed on boards, native or not. There are extremely few devices or hubs that are compatible, even though it's been out for years now. When USB 3.0 came out, there was wide support for it across the board within months, not so in this case.

And to be clear, we're not talking "USB C", which USB 3.1 gen2 CAN be, but isn't in every case. We're talking the speed and power spec compatibility. I've looked and looked for devices and hubs to use with my Gen2 3.1 port on my motherboard and there are very few, and what there is, is VERY expensive. Not sure why peripheral hardware manufacturers are not getting this done, but at this point it seems like 3.1 Gen2 is senseless as a selling point until there is a wider adoption at the storage and device level.

 

[arpanet1981]

I almost don't get the point of USB 3.1 gen2 being pushed on boards, native or not. There are extremely few devices or hubs that are compatible, even though it's been out for years now.

As compared with USB 3.2 Gen 2x2? I assume that the general goal is to support 10 GBASE-T USB ethernet adapters, faster storage arrays, etc. It would be nice if everyone went to the highest current standards, but, planned obsolescence being what it is, things usually take 3 years longer than someone might expect.

 

[boe]

INTEL - WAKE THE F' UP!!! It is 2018 - we should not have a PCIe 4x bottleneck at the DMI chipset. We should be able to load a motherboard with 4 16x slots with 4 16x cards running at a full 16x on each slot. Is intel asleep at the wheel still? You'd think AMD taking a bite out of their pie would get them to sit up and take notice.

 

[stdragon]

I see no mention of ECC memory support.

And you wont. Intel specifically, explicitly, segments that market. ECC is reserved for the Xeon class where they can up-sell workstation and server class hardware.

Want ECC for consumer use on a budget? Go AMD.

 

[jimmysmitty]

INTEL - WAKE THE F' UP!!! It is 2018 - we should not have a PCIe 4x bottleneck at the DMI chipset. We should be able to load a motherboard with 4 16x slots with 4 16x cards running at a full 16x on each slot. Is intel asleep at the wheel still? You'd think AMD taking a bite out of their pie would get them to sit up and take notice.

Who is going to run 4 GPUs especially with CFX and SLI both on life support?

No one offers more than 2x8 on consumer boards. On the HEDT market you can normally get a decent amount but even then its pointless since again support for SLI/CFX is not that great.

I see no mention of ECC memory support.

And you wont. Intel specifically, explicitly, segments that market. ECC is reserved for the Xeon class where they can up-sell workstation and server class hardware.

Want ECC for consumer use on a budget? Go AMD.

ECC is pointless for the majority of consumers unless they are a pro-sumer and in that respective most tend to go with Xeon/AMD equivalents anyways.

 

[Malik 722]

Z370 outdated.So I paid a fortune for an outdated product,bravo Intel bravo.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Z370 isn't "outdated". It just might not have everything that some monkeys think it should have. I can't think of ANYTHING, EVER, that had everything everybody thought it ought to have either, so no big surprise there.

 

[DGurney]

Who cares about USB. Where are the Thunderbolt specs?

 

[Darkbreeze]

Yeah, well, since USB and thunderbolt are basically the same thing now, so long as it's Type C/3.1 Gen 2 or newer, specs for port and cable are pretty much synonymous now for the most part.

 

[Larmo-Ct]

I just built a rig from the ground up using a EVGA Z299 Black motherboard, ( which by the way.. I thought would 'future proof me for a few years. ). Now I have to figure out the difference between Z370 and Z299. ( Sigh.. :-\ ).

 

[stdragon]

Yeah, well, since USB and thunderbolt are basically the same thing now, so long as it's Type C/3.1 Gen 2 or newer, specs for port and cable are pretty much synonymous now for the most part.

That not entirely true. While all Thunderbolt 3 controllers (Alpine Ridge) utilize USB Type-C for physical connectivity, not all USB Type-C connectors support Thunderbolt connectivity. That's because the USB Type-C supports many Alternate Modes with Thunderbolt being one of many. Other Alternate Modes include DisplayPort, HDMI, Mobile High-Definition Link (MHL), and possibly a future Ethernet standard.

Even for the pros it can get all confusing, specifically when speccing out new laptops that need compatibility with various port replicatiors and capabilities. So not only do you need to know what USB Type-C connectors are available, you also need to know WHICH ONES are enabled to provide DP or Thunderbolt. Often, there will be a logo next to each port on the computer to determine which is which.

As for the new Z390 chipset, I have yet to see anything about Alpine Ridge being embedded in the chipset. As such, the availability of Thunderbolt will be entirely dependent on which laptop and motherboard manufactures incorporate the Alpine Ridge IC chip on the PCB. And as such, options will vary with each and every system that's based off the Z390.

 

[Darkbreeze]

All USB Type C based on USB 3.1 Gen2 or 3.2, should. Older iterations of Type C based on USB 3.1 Gen 1, will not.

 

[stdragon]

All USB Type C based on USB 3.1 Gen2 or 3.2, should. Older iterations of Type C based on USB 3.1 Gen 1, will not.

Again, Thunderbolt is not inherent to either USB 3.1 Gen2 or USB 3.2 specifications. Meaning, you can't just say "Oh look, this port is a USB 3.2, let's connect our Thunderbolt external GPU box". Does NOT work that way. The only way for Thunderbolt 3 to work is that it requires at least a USB Type-C connector *in addition* to a Thunderbolt IC chip mounted to the motherboard.

This website breaks down USB 3.1 and 3.2 at a good basic understanding.
https://www.ptgrey.com/understanding-usb-31

As for Intel Thunderbolt IC chips, they also support DisplayPort. So while both Thunderbolt and DP are a form of Alternate Modes, you get a two-for-one package with Thunderbolt. In other words, you can have a USB-C port that supports only DP as an Alternate Mode, whereas if Thunderbolt is the Alternate Mode, it includes DP as well. But do be aware that technically both Thunderbolt and DP are technically two entirely separate Alternate Modes.

Here's a link to a list of Intel's Thunderbolt controller chipsets. They're ICs, and you can click on each one to review their documentation.
https://ark.intel.com/products/series/67021/Thunderbolt-Controllers

Knowing all of what I said to be true, the question I have is relatively simple. At what point will Intel roll one of their Thunderbolt IC schematics into a new motherboard chipset? It can be done. Question is, when? Because clearly it's not mentioned anywhere posted with regards to Z390.

EDIT:
Link below includes Intel Thunderbolt 3 ICs
https://ark.intel.com/products/codename/56890/Alpine-Ridge

 

[Darkbreeze]

Yeah, I get that the board has to be CAPABLE of handling Thunderbolt, at the hardware and firmware levels, but since practically every board with the required physical port also has Thunderbolt capability these days, it's almost a moot point.

 

[stdragon]

but since practically every board with the required physical port also has Thunderbolt capability these days, it's almost a moot point.

Even the high-end MB don't include Thunderbolt these days. The ones I see will support a Thunderbolt AIC Connector which basically means an add-in PCIe card that takes up a slot. You'd think that for an extra 8 bucks, they would stamp that IC right on the MB. Even still, it's a bit myopic to make that general assumption that it's a defacto-standard. It's not, and if you really need Thunderbolt support on a PC MB, it behooves you to do the research prior to making a purchase.

At the end of the day, it's not a big deal as you can always just drop in a PCIe card anyways; and I'm guessing that's why MB manufactures are leaving the chip off so as to maintain a price-point competitive edge. I mean let's be honest, most people don't need Thunderbolt, and those that do are going to be laptop users anyways for break-out GPU and docking solutions. That scenario doesn't really apply to PC users.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Even the high-end MB don't include Thunderbolt these days.

You're joking, right?

 

[stdragon]

Even the high-end MB don't include Thunderbolt these days.

You're joking, right?

Not at all. Of the high end MBs. the SKU selection are slim pickings when looking for one with integrated Thunderbolt. But yes, if you need one that has Thunderbolt, the top tier boards would be the first place to look.

Doesn't anyone remember IEEE 1394 "Firewire" 400 and 800? It was the same deal, and finding a MB with one built-in was just as elusive.

Now laptops OTOH, it's not hard to find a laptop with it available for obvious reasons....

 

[Darkbreeze]

Funny, because I have a mid tier Skylake motherboard, several others too, from three generations ago, and they ALL have Thunderbolt. From Haswell refresh to Kaby lake, and they all have it. Guess I just happened to pick the right boards, but I'm going to look into that further because most mid to enthusiast grades boards I recall looking at specs on from the last couple of years, and especially the most recent chipsets, all had it.