News Intel Roadmap Up Includes 144-Core Sierra Forest, Clearwater Forest in 2025

I think the fact that Intel isn't moving backwards on the manufacturing side speaks to their confidence in the forthcoming nodes. It also seems like breaking things up has allowed for a much smoother development process (re Intel 4 being high power only but Intel 3 being full node). Hopefully this positivity will lead to nailing releases and getting some consistency of releases back.

Reading through some analysis and the report does make me wonder if the punting on the pro GPU side might partly be related to the issues TSMC has been having bringing N3 to market.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rtoaht
Jul 7, 2022
646
596
1,760
I think the fact that Intel isn't moving backwards on the manufacturing side speaks to their confidence in the forthcoming nodes. It also seems like breaking things up has allowed for a much smoother development process (re Intel 4 being high power only but Intel 3 being full node). Hopefully this positivity will lead to nailing releases and getting some consistency of releases back.

Reading through some analysis and the report does make me wonder if the punting on the pro GPU side might partly be related to the issues TSMC has been having bringing N3 to market.

What are you talking about? TSMC N3 has been in full volume production with very good yields since December 2022. In fact, Intel insiders say that TSMC N3 is actually better than Intel initially suspected when evaluating it for use in Arrowlake GPU tile production.

Whereas it’s all quiet on the Intel front as far as when Intel 4 then 3 production will start.
 
What are you talking about? TSMC N3 has been in full volume production with very good yields since December 2022. In fact, Intel insiders say that TSMC N3 is actually better than Intel initially suspected when evaluating it for use in Arrowlake GPU tile production.

Whereas it’s all quiet on the Intel front as far as when Intel 4 then 3 production will start.
Aside from volume production what you're claiming is based on rumors and those swing both ways.

The expectation that most of TSMC's customers will be using N3E instead of N3 definitely indicates this transition is nothing like that of N5/7. N3E drops the SRAM scaling of N3 to improve upon performance/efficiency, uses single patterning and has fewer layers. There's no doubt that the N3 derivatives are going to be amazing, but N3 (N3B) is likely going to have limited application.

Intel historically doesn't tend to announce much on the production front as it doesn't matter until their products are headed to market. This will likely change as third parties use their advanced fabrication nodes. The only thing we know is that Horse Creek and Meteor Lake have both taped out with the former still scheduled for summer release.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rtoaht
Jul 7, 2022
646
596
1,760
Aside from volume production what you're claiming is based on rumors and those swing both ways.

The expectation that most of TSMC's customers will be using N3E instead of N3 definitely indicates this transition is nothing like that of N5/7. N3E drops the SRAM scaling of N3 to improve upon performance/efficiency, uses single patterning and has fewer layers. There's no doubt that the N3 derivatives are going to be amazing, but N3 (N3B) is likely going to have limited application.

Intel historically doesn't tend to announce much on the production front as it doesn't matter until their products are headed to market. This will likely change as third parties use their advanced fabrication nodes. The only thing we know is that Horse Creek and Meteor Lake have both taped out with the former still scheduled for summer release.
By limited application, I assume you mean Apple has purchased 100% of TSMC N3 capacity for bionic A17 and M2 refresh production. So limited to Apple…sure.

To your other point, I really do hope Intel doesn’t bomb on Intel 4, 3, 2, & 1.8nm nodes because the worst thing that can happen to the cpu industry is Intel being delayed into irrelevance. Intel is historically the most important company in this sector, and it is worrying to see them fumble the ball so much lately.
 
  • Like
Reactions: thestryker

bit_user

Polypheme
Ambassador
Intel 4 being high power only but Intel 3 being full node
Huh? Intel 4 is rumored to have power or frequency scaling problems, just like their early 10 nm nodes. So, it's slated for laptop-only. Meanwhile, both Sierra Forest and Granite Rapids will use Intel 3. So, it would seem that Intel 3 is going to be the high-power version.

Reading through some analysis and the report does make me wonder if the punting on the pro GPU side might partly be related to the issues TSMC has been having bringing N3 to market.
No, it's because Ponte Vecchio and Rialto Bridge were both insanely complex and their final yields were rubbish. ...or so I've read.
 
Jul 7, 2022
646
596
1,760
The article says:

"Granite Rapids will arrive in 2024, closely following Sierra Forest."​


The writeup on Anandtech goes further and cites a Q2 launch window for it.

Its the successor, Clearwater Forest, that's set to launch in 2025. We don't know how many cores it'll have.
So realistically 2025 because Intel is still having trouble with Intel 4 and my Intel sources say realistically Intel 3 won’t be ready for full volume production until Q4 2024 meaning we won’t see Intel’s 144 core Xeon until 1H 2025.
 
Huh? Intel 4 is rumored to have power or frequency scaling problems, just like their early 10 nm nodes. So, it's slated for laptop-only. Meanwhile, both Sierra Forest and Granite Rapids will use Intel 3. So, it would seem that Intel 3 is going to be the high-power version.
I meant to say performance, not power as it only has the high performance libraries and isn't intended to be a full node.