Pre-release benchmarks of Intel's Tiger Lake-U chips look promising.
Intel Tiger Lake-U CPU Speeds Past AMD R7 4800U in Graphics Benchmark : Read more
Intel Tiger Lake-U CPU Speeds Past AMD R7 4800U in Graphics Benchmark : Read more
enjoy, even if you are Intel fan, this is happening only because AMD pressurize Intel. Grab popcorn and clap when either side delivers.Uh oh!
A good chunk of this is only happening because Intel has had nothing but problems getting 10nm up to speed with it still not being up to par with where Intel wanted it to be three years ago.enjoy, even if you are Intel fan, this is happening only because AMD pressurize Intel.
Problems seem to be well behind them and the window for AMD to make significant market inroads is diminishing. Intel needs to keep AMD around - otherwise the charges of monopoly starts rearing it's head. Starting to look like the time when Core/Conroe dropped - which is just short of 14 years ago.A good chunk of this is only happening because Intel has had nothing but problems getting 10nm up to speed with it still not being up to par with where Intel wanted it to be three years ago.
Had everything gone according to Intel's plans when Ice Lake first hit roadmaps around the Broadwell era, Zen would have launched against Ice Lake instead of Sky Lake 3rd-gen and AMD would have been crushed from making almost no net headway against Intel.
Intel deserves some credit for screwing up 10nm so AMD could survive long enough to make itself relevant again
I've seen nothing concrete (from Intel -- not fanboy wish lists) to suggest Tiger Lake will be a Conroe repeat. Conroe was a solid 25% [EDIT: more like 40-50%!] boost in performance over the best NetBurst architecture, plus used something like half the power (or 2/3 the power). It was an absolutely massive change. Nehalem was also a fairly sizeable jump -- mostly because it integrated the memory controller.Problems seem to be well behind them and the window for AMD to make significant market inroads is diminishing. Intel needs to keep AMD around - otherwise the charges of monopoly starts rearing it's head. Starting to look like the time when Core/Conroe dropped - which is just short of 14 years ago.
Looks like the gains from TGL over ICL are significant. Really looking forward to Rocket Lake S - hoping for this year, but will hold off a little depending on when the Ampere based GeForce "3080Ti" is released - and what a Rocket Lake S refresh will look like.
I am waiting for the 25/28W TGL that will go into the NUC. I Will consider it a good year if I can replace all various generations of NUCs with Tiger Lake NUC11. 2021 will likely see wide availability of ICL SP - I will be looking at initially replacing my Engineering workstations (dual socket 3647 - single 8180) with a single socket ICL SP. Servers can most likely wait until the end of 2021.
10nm still isn't performing up to expectations and Intel has given up on developing 10nm beyond higher-margin applications, I wouldn't count that as problems being "behind" it. Rocket Lake is still 14nm++++ and unless Intel pulled an architectural miracle, its added Willow Cove complexity is going to cost a few hundred MHz in achievable and sustainable clocks, which will cancel out a good chunk of its IPC gains just like how Sunny Cove's complexity cost Ice Lake 300-400MHz vs Coffee Lake on Intel's troublesome 10nm.Problems seem to be well behind them
I've seen nothing concrete (from Intel -- not fanboy wish lists) to suggest Tiger Lake will be a Conroe repeat. Conroe was a solid 25% boost in performance over the best NetBurst architecture, plus used something like half the power (or 2/3 the power). It was an absolutely massive change. Nehalem was also a fairly sizeable jump -- mostly because it integrated the memory controller.
Let me go on the record here and now and state that in general performance, if Intel can do better than a 15% IPC improvement, I will be impressed (and a bit surprised). I've seen claims of 30% better IPC, which I think is fantasy land. Guess we'll find out "this summer" if I'm right or wrong.
I suppose I'm thinking more along the lines of Core 2 Duo E6400 vs. top Pentium D, because that's what I bought back in the C2D days. (I couldn't justify buying one of the extreme edition chips.) I do remember it was a massive jump, but I didn't remember it being quite so high. Still, looking back at AnandTech's review, it was indeed closer to 40-50% faster. It was basically like AMD's FX to Zen transition. Maybe I was thinking more of the Core 2 Quad Q6600 to Core i7-920 change, which is something else I did. I remember that being a relatively large 25% gain on average (give or take -- some tests where much higher gains, others smaller).Conroe was 35-45% faster not 25%. It was 90% faster than Presler per clock.
I don't think so. As the article points out, Renoir still uses Vega. Hopefully, its successor will use RDNA or even RDNA2 (unlikely, if I'm honest).Uh oh!
Hopefully, this will pressurize AMD to get their APU graphics more caught-up with their dGPUs.enjoy, even if you are Intel fan, this is happening only because AMD pressurize Intel.
Ever heard the saying: "Fortune favors the prepared mind." ? It's kinda like that.Intel deserves some credit for screwing up 10nm so AMD could survive long enough to make itself relevant again
If that were true, they wouldn't have just launched another 14 nm desktop generation.Problems seem to be well behind them
Is that really worthwhile? What do you hope to gain - core count or single-thread perf? Based on what we've so far seen, I'm skeptical on the single-thread perf (higher IPC, but lower clocks) and I think core-count will be down as well? And if you really needed more cores, why not just populate your second socket?2021 will likely see wide availability of ICL SP - I will be looking at initially replacing my Engineering workstations (dual socket 3647 - single 8180) with a single socket ICL SP. Servers can most likely wait until the end of 2021.
Why does this matter in a graphics benchmark? If someone is intensely gaming on it it's going to be plugged in. If you're trying to push power draw into these comparisons it's already done, the cooling system and configurable TDP is what's limiting the processors.I assume neither of them are running on battery when they got this score?
This is actually wrong.If that were true, they wouldn't have just launched another 14 nm desktop generation.
If your 10nm process is worse than your 14nm process, then objectively that is a BIG problem. We're not talking about TSMC 10nm LP here, this is Intel's 10nm tech, intended for CPUs that are supposed to be good. So yeah, if Intel can't make 10nm work better than 14nm++, then the 10nm problems are still present. Of course Ice Lake Xeon chips are in the works, so presumably there's at least some benefit to be had (density?)This is actually wrong.
They did that because 14nm++ performs better than 10nm. In desktops, power consumption isn't nearly as big of a problem as it is in laptops, hence why they use 10nm in laptop SKUs. If Intel used 10nm in desktops right now you probably wouldn't be seeing an improvement in performance at all, only lower power draw. Any nobody would buy a new processor JUST for that reason.
As Jarred said, this is part of what we mean when we talk about Intel's problems. Intel didn't intend this to be the case, it's just what they managed to salvage from their 10 nm debacle.They did that because 14nm++ performs better than 10nm.
Cool story, but it completely misses the fact that Comet Lake (yes 14 nm) first launched in laptops, and it did so after 10 nm Ice Lake laptop chips had been on the market for a decent amount of time.In desktops, power consumption isn't nearly as big of a problem as it is in laptops, hence why they use 10nm in laptop SKUs.
AMD saw both benefits, when they moved to 7 nm (which is probably more like 10 nm, if we're being honest). You don't consider it a problem that Intel couldn't?If Intel used 10nm in desktops right now you probably wouldn't be seeing an improvement in performance at all, only lower power draw.
If you're not talking per-clock and you aren't specifying benchmarks or specific model numbers, then specific numbers become rather meaningless.Conroe was 35-45% faster not 25%. It was 90% faster than Presler per clock.
That's not how I remember it. Again, somewhat pointless to litigate.Nehalem was underwhelming for client because the gains in single thread wasn't that much, other than for the Turbo. In certain cases it actually regressed.
Yeah, Nehalem had a massive IPC gain from IMC cutting memory latency in half, upwards of 60% in some cases. It was the last groundbreaking IPC step increase in recent computing history.That's not how I remember it.
If you're not talking per-clock and you aren't specifying benchmarks or specific model numbers, then specific numbers become rather meaningless.
Even per-clock performance comparisons are highly benchmark-specific, since any SSE-heavy workloads got a huge boost from the doubling of their internal vector ALUs from 64 to 128-bits. So, a SSE-centric benchmark should easily show near 2x IPC gains. But, that wasn't all workloads.
That's not how I remember it. Again, somewhat pointless to litigate.