News Intel Unveils Full Desktop Coffee Lake Refresh Lineup

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ingtar33

ingtar33

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reminder, this refresh is a refresh of a refresh of a refresh.

the last substantive change to the intel chip design was when they went from broadwell to skylake (and that was mostly to the memory subsystems, the overall design was so close as to almost qualify as a refresh). Every update since has been a "refresh" or a "refresh with more cores". zero progress on node shrink, or design update in almost 4 whole years now, this is like the Pentium 4 days when intel would release revision after revision of the same chip with slightly higher clock speeds or more cores.

Unlike with the p4 I don't see a new chip design like the core design coming down the pike to break them out of this nonsense.
 
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salgado18

salgado18

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ingtar33 said:
reminder, this refresh is a refresh of a refresh of a refresh.

the last substantive change to the intel chip design was when they went from broadwell to skylake (and that was mostly to the memory subsystems, the overall design was so close as to almost qualify as a refresh). Every update since has been a "refresh" or a "refresh with more cores". zero progress on node shrink, or design update in almost 4 whole years now, this is like the Pentium 4 days when intel would release revision after revision of the same chip with slightly higher clock speeds or more cores.

Unlike with the p4 I don't see a new chip design like the core design coming down the pike to break them out of this nonsense.
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I disagree on the conclusion. Intel is not dumb. As soon as the first Ryzen models came to market, and caught everyone (including them) by surprise, they probably started development of a new chip architecture. We don't see anything because it takes years to come out with a complete redesign, but I'm sure they are hard at work to come back to the top. If they aren't doing this, the future battles are already lost, because Zen is a very modular, powerful and cool architecture. They need something completely new to stop AMD's growth.
 
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Brian_R170

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Intel website shows the TDP of the Core i9-9900 as 65W. Your table currently shows 95W.

Edit: I see the table is fixed now, but I wondering if the comment that it will still need "a beefy cooler and motherboard" is valid given that it's locked and limited to 65W.
 
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NightHawkRMX

NightHawkRMX

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I would say I'm still holding out on AMD and Intel.
AMD was well behind Intel, not releasing 14nm zen chips until 2017. The times have changed. AMD has already launched a couple of 7nm GPUs including the gaming-focused Radeon Vii and other data crunching Instinct GPUs. AMD's current gaming CPUs are based on 12nm and are soon getting an upgrade to 7nm. AMD has already announced 7nm EPYC ROME (what a stupid name) server CPUs.

Intel has been based on 14nm for ages and these new CPUs are rather uninteresting and quite similar to Skylake chips from 5 years ago.
It has been 55 months since the 5th of September, 2014 when Intel first announced 14nm CPUs. That is nearly 5 years! Intel has been delaying 10nm ( roughly = to AMD 7nm) for a while with no 10nm CPUs in sight for anytime soon.
I really hope we have some friendly competition from both teams red and blue.
http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2014/2014090701_Intel_launches_first_Broadwell_processors.html
 
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joeblowsmynose

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Brian_R170 said:
Intel website shows the TDP of the Core i9-9900 as 65W. Your table currently shows 95W.

Edit: I see the table is fixed now, but I wondering if the comment that it will still need "a beefy cooler and motherboard" is valid given that it's locked and limited to 65W.
Click to expand...

Well, if it is a "65w" part like the 9900k is a "95w" part then the "beefy cooler and motherboard" comment is valid.
 
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salgado18 said:
I disagree on the conclusion. Intel is not dumb. As soon as the first Ryzen models came to market, and caught everyone (including them) by surprise, they probably started development of a new chip architecture.
Click to expand...
There has been no fundamental breakthroughs in CPU architecture in over 25 years, just go look at a the Alpha 21264's block diagram and compare it to modern CPUs, all fundamentally the same apart from ISA-specific overhead and back-end organization.

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with Intel's current architecture, Intel's main problem is simply hitting the limits of what is possible on 14nm and a new architecture won't change that. Going to 10nm on the other hand should afford Intel a little more timing margin to make the scheduler a little deeper and wider, which is why Intel can add extra execution ports to Icelake to nudge its IPC and SMT performance up. AMD is likely doing the same with Zen 2, keep fundamentally the same architecture apart from splitting it between chiplets and make the execution back-end slightly wider to accommodate whatever extra ILP the upgraded scheduler may be able to squeeze out of code.

Unless there is something fundamentally wrong with a given CPU design, such as stupid latency in the pipeline for the sake of higher clocks that end up causing more harm than good (Netburst, driver/dozer/etc.), it does not make sense to start from scratch when a scheduler and back-end upgrade (basically what Intel has been doing since Nehalem/Core iX-nnn) can already get you most of the IPC benefits a new process can provide. Unless AMD hits a brick wall with its Zen core design, it will likely end up reusing the same foundation for the next 10+ years too.
 
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chickenballs

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Can you actually buy these cpus at their msrps?
also do we gamers actually need to upgrade from 7th or even 4th gen i7?
Well I do understand if a professional CS player may want to push past 200fps with the newer higher clocked i7 and i9s but pretty sure the majority of us are not into competitive fps games. You know the millions of gamers who mainly play rpg and mmorpg which mostly are locked to 60fps anyway...
So resolution and visuals may be more important than 200+ fps
So why not keep our i7 4790K or 7700k and save the money on a better gpu instead??
 
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I wonder if the coffee in coffee lake is any good
 
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chickenballs said:
also do we gamers actually need to upgrade from 7th or even 4th gen i7?
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Depends on whether you play games that scale beyond 4C8T and care about whatever extra performance this yields. I'm still fine with my i5-3470 in the few games I play, not in any specific hurry to upgrade but I may still get tempted by a Ryzen 3600 if it turns out as good as the more optimistic alleged leaks and rumors suggest.
 
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rigg42

rigg42

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TJ Hooker said:
By "predecessors" are you referring to the 8600/8500? Because both of those are available for retail purchase. Availability may be a bit spotty, but that could be due to the general Intel CPU shortage.
Click to expand...
Upon further inspection it looks like you're correct. I didn't remember seeing those available in anything but oem systems. Disregard my previous post. The 9600 could actually be interesting at that price.
 
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